'Teachers know absolutely nothing about the world of work'

[mole]

Cutting remarks!

 

Vince Cable: 'Teachers know absolutely nothing about the world of work' - UK Politics - UK - The Independent

[tekins]

Nothing that hasn't been said on here many times! :-)

[Norphy]

He may have a point but that's a bit rich coming from a politician...

[GeekyPete]

Sweeping statements that expose a total lack of any understanding for yet another group of voters. We can now add teachers (again) to the list of disenfranchised, along with firefighters, doctors, Police, nurses, the unemployed, the retired and anyone at all who works for local government. And it's all done to save us money. Shame the debt is isn't coming down.

[Gibson335]

A teacher friend of mine said something very similar to this in his retirement speech at the end of his last term. I know several other teachers who think along the same lines...so it's not just outsiders who view it this way.

[witch]

There are some teachers who don't seem know anything about the world of work outside education, particularly if they are married to teachers - I have heard many teachers talk about the hours they do with an obvious lack of understanding that others work very long hours as well. Some of them seem to think that if you work outside education and your hours are, say, 9.00-5.30, then you only work these hours.

One teacher I know was moaning about working a 70 hour week during term-time and another friend of mine looked around and said: "I work 70 hours a week ALL THE YEAR ROUND" which shut her up quite well.

 

However, that is not to take away anything from the many teachers who do work very very long hours of course, and the requirement for ridiculous amounts of data (showing EVERY child making progress in EVERY lesson) has extended their working hours to the point of stupidity.

I also think that it is hard to apply the rules of business to teaching - some of them yes, but not all. A school is not a business and it is difficult to expect results as if it was. (I speak as a school governor of many years standing)

Edited March 5, 2014 by witch

[jbailey]

There's has been an argument in schools about how to get the right kind of politicians, ones who have a conscience and an ounce of common sense to make decisions affecting "average working" people in this county, successive groups of voters have got this wrong by actually voting because the underlying problem of course is that most politicians are privileged toffs who come from public schools and know nothing about the real world, they only know about fiddling expenses, a lack of morals and getting back hander jobs as corporate advisors when they leave office.

 

But what do I know, my underlying problem is I am a graduate and it worker so what do I know about politics, conversing with mice, building planets, quantum mechanics, astral projection or motorcycle maintenance...

[nicholab]

At least it been said by an MP that had a job, lives in a normal house and catches the train on a daily bases.

[witch]

....... or motorcycle maintenance...

 

Well I know about that....don't know if it helps though

[SpuffMonkey]

Prefix the statement with "some" and he might have a point - though tbh he doesn't seem yo have a load of real world job experience himself having spent most of his life in and and around universities or in politics

[alttab]

It's a shame he choose to use a sound bite comment to highlight the particular aspect of careers advice which is who is best equipped to advice students about careers and jobs in say manufacturing (the sector is so broad that even those working within the sector would struggle to give specific advice regarding careers outside of their own experience).

 

It's a very patronising comment to make anyway - even if it was made tongue in cheek, by going to university getting qualified attending job interviews and securing employment teachers are doing exactly what other graduates are doing out there in the 'real world' lol

[penfold]

I may be still asleep this morning or just misread the comment, but isn't he just stating the obvious? I'm married to a teacher and whenever she has applied for a job I tell her I can read her application form and check some aspects of it, but when it comes down it the supporting statement for the job I'm pretty much useless. The reason being that my expertise is in a different field. Why should we be surprised that a teacher wont be the best person to provide career advice, surely you would be better going to a careers adviser, or just people who work in specific sectors to speak to the children directly.

 

Unless I'm missing something (which is likely) it seems like he's just making waves for the sake of it?

[localzuk]

I always thought careers advice was something that was provided by more centralised services. When I was growing up, we had specialist careers advisers provided by the local authority, for example.

 

Has this changed or something?

[abillybob]

Dear Vince

 

Please define what you class as 'work' for me then?

Are you actually still stating that teachers don't understand responsibilities, don't have hard days, aren't up for hours completing marking! Must be all fun and games to a very important person like yourself!

 

Di*k.

[jinnantonnixx]

The teachers are doing what is asked of them - teaching the curriculum.

Cable's comments could be re-phrased as 'Astronomy lecturers know nothing about plumbing!"

[Dos_Box]

I think that possibly it is more along the lines of Cable suggesting that those who went the school-college-uni-school route do not possibly have the skills required to tell school leavers about how to seaerch for apprentiships, jobs and other opportinities and to appreciate that not everyone is suited for higher education.

From my time in schools in the early 2000's the prescribed route was to funnel everyone into college straight from schools. It hadn't helped that many mahjor comapnies had stopped their apprentice programs at teh time for cost purposes reasoning that they could recruit from an already skilled pool.

This policy has backfired in recent years with the skilled people now retiring and there being no one to take their places. Companies such as United Utilities and BAE have in recent times restarted their apprentice programs. Several freinds of mine are now managers in these companies and have told me first hand how bad things got with skills shortages, especially as labour from eastern Europe didn't have the required skills and qualifications (and in many cases security clearance) to fill the posts.

There is palnty of well paid work out there for those that don't want to go down the university route.

[pcstru]

While Cable might have a point - that careers advice in schools is problematic, it's far from clear that the solution lies in the personal experience of any individual. The "world of work" is so vast that no one, not even a politician, can have personal experience that would equip them to meaningfully advise any secondary school student on the route they should take to achieve whatever they aspire to. So it is likely then that good careers advice is a process not at all reliant on the personal experience of any individual careers adviser. An advisor is a conduit to knowledge and people who do have personal experience of a particular subject field/employment. I'm not clear why teachers, whatever their personal experience, are not capable of performing that role. If they are not, then Mr Cable fails to identify anyone in a school who is better placed.

 

So while Mr Cable's public droolings might be motivated by a genuine concern for the quality of careers advice out there, his analysis of the problem is rather poor and if someone can't identify the actual problem, they are extremely unlikely to be able to solve it. Perhaps Mr Cable's inability to think this through stems from an aversion to teachers which he acquired early in life. And rather like the poor career advice he was obviously given, it's probably just too late to correct that now. Even if he did want to address his inability to think by going back to school, would he now be able to find anyone willing to teach him?

[kili]

Christine Blower, general secretary of the National Union of Teachers (NUT), said: “This is a crass remark, which is insulting to teachers who are workers in their own right.

 

I'm not a teacher but the statement above sums it up pretty well. I am friends with a number of teachers and I wouldn't want their job no matter what the pay. Palying to the crowd Mr Cable. The last time the Libreals did that they stated they wouldn't introduce/put up tuition fees. A lie plain and simple

[witch]

With reference to careers search - our local schools use something called Connexions who allegedly help with careers. My children, who are now 25, 23 and 21 got NO help at all from these clowns - it was all "have a look along the shelves and see if there is anything you fancy" when really they needed advice as to the sort of things that were available. My eldest was pushed towards university because he was in the top third of the school but if anyone had actually tried to help him he might have avoided doing a degree he hated and struggling to find a way in the world of work (at 25 he is now in a graduate level job and hopefully back on track)

We as parents asked for help too and got nothing. We had no idea about jobs that would enable study at the same time - it was either do an apprenticeship in plumbing or electrics or go to uni - nothing else.

It hasnt changed either, my friends with children around 16 report that the same things are happening.

The thing is, this service isn't run by teachers anyway and it is still useless, so Vince Cable needs to look at this.

[hardtailstar]

With reference to careers search - our local schools use something called Connexions who allegedly help with careers. My children, who are now 25, 23 and 21 got NO help at all from these clowns - it was all "have a look along the shelves and see if there is anything you fancy" when really they needed advice as to the sort of things that were available. My eldest was pushed towards university because he was in the top third of the school but if anyone had actually tried to help him he might have avoided doing a degree he hated and struggling to find a way in the world of work (at 25 he is now in a graduate level job and hopefully back on track)

We as parents asked for help too and got nothing. We had no idea about jobs that would enable study at the same time - it was either do an apprenticeship in plumbing or electrics or go to uni - nothing else.

It hasnt changed either, my friends with children around 16 report that the same things are happening.

The thing is, this service isn't run by teachers anyway and it is still useless, so Vince Cable needs to look at this.

 

I'm 25 and went through the same Connexions rubbish, They insisted I went to University but I wanted to go to college and go to work after that.... Im so glad I listened to myself as most of my friends coming out of uni have no practical skills and struggling to find a job.

[mthomas08]

I have to say this is spot on:

“They know how universities work, they know what you have to do to get an A-level, they know about UCAS forms – but they know absolutely nothing about the world of work.”

 

How many of us know teachers that worry about "non" teaching, worry about their EGOs or if they have the latest device of technology and use any excuse to get it.

 

Unfortunately he is doing exactly what WE all suffer, being branded with the same brush. I have known many poor technicians who do their hours, never any more, never go the extra mile for their job or even have that lazy attitude of "I cant be bothered". We can get branded badly thanks to those.

 

Are all teachers the same? nope, I know many who have been called outstanding and go well beyond their job. Sadly I also know some poor teachers who don't prioritise their Students above their own personal gain.

 

*edit

 

I still believe and it hasn't changed from working in a 2nd Academy that a School should be run or have some one Very high up who is business orientated. It is after all treated like a business and has to do well. Instead of it being profit based its simply results based. You can then have a Head Teacher who is simply head of the Teachers and can also concentrate on Teaching and Learning.

Edited March 6, 2014 by mthomas08

[GeekyPete]

“But the underlying problem is of course that most teachers, particularly in the secondary sector, are graduates.

 

“They know how universities work, they know what you have to do to get an A-level, they know about UCAS forms – but they know absolutely nothing about the world of work.”

 

Pretty rich from a Cambridge graduate who's knowledge of work before becoming a Politian was Finance advisor to the Kenyan Government, Economist for Shell and a Economics lecturer in Glasgow Uni. A real Average Joe. He's been in politics since the 70's and an MP since 1997. When do you think the last time he put in a hard days graft, the kind that would let him experience "the world of work". These are the ramblings of a man in his dotage. He should be boring his cronies over a G&T with his pet philosophies in his local. He's only making himself look foolish.

 

The comment about Most teachers are Graduates just shows what an idiot he is. What he's actually saying is that the problem is that most teachers are qualified to do their job.

Edited March 6, 2014 by GeekyPete

[GeekyPete]

Sadly I also know some poor teachers who don't prioritise their Students above their own personal gain.

 

You mean every single one in Harvard school of business? If you are teaching people to thrive in a capitalistic world who better to teach them than capitalists. A good teacher knows that the success of the students and their own personal gain goes hand in hand. It's actually the lazy ones who don't get it that are letting everyone down. Including themselves and their own prosperity.

 

Teacher care, without a doubt but take off those rose tinted spectacles. Take away personal gain and you'll have no teachers in school. Good, bad or indifferent.

[Ephelyon]

In the world of the Information Age, a lot of the details on how to enter a particular career pathway are much more widely available than they used to be. But this misses the point. I should've thought a large part of the job of anyone "advising on careers" is to point the kids in the right direction (should it really be that hard nowadays?) and then motivate them to achieve. In that case, teachers ought to be eminently qualified.

[Guest Guest]

With reference to careers search - our local schools use something called Connexions who allegedly help with careers.

 

That's brilliant help compared to what we got (I'm 30 btw). We did a stupid quiz on the computer (could have been an acorn, can't remember) which told me I should be a rocket scientist. Then I had a "talk" with my German teacher who, because I couldn't give a... about languages, thought I was a SEN kid and just said "yeah, you're gunna end up in a factory or something ain't you..."

 

Connexions came in with a presence on (or rather just off) the high street when I left college. Went in, they told me "Sorry, can't help if you're 18..."

 

 

The problem is who knows about many other jobs than those in their chosen industry? Less and less teachers have had jobs "in the real world", that is true (and something which does worry me but that's for another thread), but after the experience we had of a construction worker coming in and doing the most boring talk on construction, listing each trade you can do, I can't actually think of someone more qualified to do talks than a teacher... But then I doubt there was a single teacher in the hall who understood what 90% of the trades he listed were...

 

Can't we just make it simple again and re-open the mines? That way us plebs know exactly what we're going to do when we leave school.