Bromcom_John Posted July 18, 2007 Posted July 18, 2007 I believe both Bromcom and CMIS are web-based. I'll leave Phil to give answers for SIMS future development. But to confirm Ravening_Wolf's statement. The Bromcom software suite has been almost completely Browser based and SQL back-ended since 2001 and the forthcoming MIS product (Oct 2007) will be likewise.
Ravening_Wolf Posted July 18, 2007 Posted July 18, 2007 The Bromcom software suite has been almost completely Browser based and SQL back-ended since 2001 Gee....That means Bromcom were doing what Capita deemed impossible two years before Capita said it was impossible...
NetworkGeezer Posted July 18, 2007 Posted July 18, 2007 Be careful what you wish for. I have yet to meet a browser application that is good to use a fat client app. Sure a web version might make for easier deployment to clients ( bypassing update-hell at least on the client side) and use on Linux/MacOSX possible but I am really not looking forward to supporting a web version of Profiles or Assessment Manager
sparkeh Posted July 18, 2007 Posted July 18, 2007 I am really not looking forward to supporting a web version of Profiles or Assessment Manager I hate the way it is at the moment, could anything be worse?
PhilNeal Posted July 18, 2007 Posted July 18, 2007 NetworkGeezer has it exactly - In my view Google has done a pretty good job with its browser based spreadsheet and word processor applications but I don't think you will find many browser applications offering the type of flexibility that is possible in a client application yet - Google falls short but it is amazing to see what they have achieved. Our passion is in supporting educationalists achieve their aims, we are guided by our user base as ultimately we have to deliver what they need. Mostly they don't care about the technology but they do care about managing their schools and that is what we concentrate most of our efforts on doing for them. The new web parts are designed to work with MOSS 2007 and offer more flexibility in their deployment than the current versions. Our development philosophy is to provide appropriate solutions so at the moment the client software is designed to meet teacher, admin and management requirements. The web parts are aimed at providing a browser based alternative to teachers for the tasks that they routinely undertake i.e. assessment, attendance, reporting etc. There are also web parts for parents and pupils. I apologise for detailing product information on your site but felt that a ball was rolling based on assumptions that weren't accurate.
Geoff Posted July 18, 2007 Posted July 18, 2007 I don't think you will find many browser applications offering the type of flexibility that is possible in a client application yet Outlook Web Access?
MkII Posted July 18, 2007 Author Posted July 18, 2007 Hi Phil, thanks very much for your comments. Apologies for the tone of this thread, where undeserved. You can appreciate, by your statement, the intense frustration felt at being told that that was Capita's official line. It's such a relief to hear you dismiss it. Personally It still doesn't wash with me that webparts aren't totally appropriate for school MIS Systems. Full blown web based apps along the lines of google apps are not at all needed, and I think it's a red herring to throw that into the equation. None of your competitors are doing it that way.
sparkeh Posted July 18, 2007 Posted July 18, 2007 Apologies for the tone of this thread, where undeserved. Well I don't think that anyone has crossed the line into personally abusive comments have the?. Criticism of the product should be allowed and its clear SIMS arouses some passions None of your competitors are doing it that way. If everybody followed this there would be no innovation in the world. I think MIS systems would be excellent candidates for being web based apps.
PhilNeal Posted July 18, 2007 Posted July 18, 2007 Mark, thanks for the feedback. There is clear blue water between our approach and that of Pearson and RM however ePortal needs client software too.
kxv2020 Posted July 18, 2007 Posted July 18, 2007 I personally believe SIMS works well at the moment - and much prefer using the fat client SIMS.net to a web part version on a daily basis. It is far easier for admininistrative staff but the possibility of having a web based access is good when your out and about. The new GUI for Sims.net is fantastic and improving all the time. OWA is very good but falls short of the whole Outlook app in certain bits! I'm just passoniate about ensuring that teaching and learning is fully supported and by using SIMS.net I think it is supported.
webman Posted July 18, 2007 Posted July 18, 2007 I'm just passoniate about ensuring that teaching and learning is fully supported and by using SIMS.net I think it is supported. Not fully. A freely-available developer API wouldn't go a-miss to assist third-party apps or bespoke apps accessing school data. In my opinion Capita would have done this ages ago if their passion really is "supporting educationalists achieve their aims."
NetworkGeezer Posted July 18, 2007 Posted July 18, 2007 I don't think you will find many browser applications offering the type of flexibility that is possible in a client application yet Outlook Web Access? So you've bought the line that OWA is the same as Outlook 2003? Anway, I'd never thought I'd see the day when you'd use a Microsoft product as an examplar to prove a point
steve Posted July 18, 2007 Posted July 18, 2007 I would echo kirans words, we like the dot net client too and its getting better all the time. Given SIMSs market share you 'd always expect a difference of opinion from its users on how they would prefer it to look and work. TBH I doubt we will see a full web interface anytime soon - if ever - given the amount of time and money that has been spent developing the current architecture Capita arn't going to switch over to a web interface. Unless everyone fancies doubling their subscriptions to fund the it?
MkII Posted July 18, 2007 Author Posted July 18, 2007 As Capita are demonstrating they do see the relevance of producing web parts of applications that warrant it. From earlier in this thread.. "We released Web Parts two years ago. The next generation is due out in September 2007." Pay attention at the back! Reporting for teachers would be so good if it could be done from home by logging into a secured server at school. Similarly the reduced hardware and support requirements of web based lesson registration would be hugely beneficial.
GrumbleDook Posted July 18, 2007 Posted July 18, 2007 If you consider the differences between different players in the MIS scene ... They do take different approaches to what is needed. I can only really speak from experience from CMIS and SIMS, but CMIS is more browser based for basic, common requests from staff (student details, inputting attendance by lesson, filling in form or comment based reports) but SIMS is more client orientated as it favours being used more for bespoke requests ... CMIS (via ePortal) is more teacher friendly ... SIMS.net is more admin staff friendly. I am looking forward to a chance to get to grips with the new web parts in September (actually likely to be October within our LP roll out!)
MkII Posted July 19, 2007 Author Posted July 19, 2007 CMIS (via ePortal) is more teacher friendly ... SIMS.net is more admin staff friendly. Totally agree with that Tony. SIMS is Admin friendly, certainly not Teacher friendly. Those are SIMS' roots after all.
kxv2020 Posted July 20, 2007 Posted July 20, 2007 CMIS (via ePortal) is more teacher friendly ... SIMS.net is more admin staff friendly. Totally agree with that Tony. SIMS is Admin friendly, certainly not Teacher friendly. Those are SIMS' roots after all. I am going to have to disagree with this point. Some parts of SIMS such as all the 6.x modules are not friendly at all however the 7.x version is far better and evolving all the time. Its not difficult for most teachers to double click on the time line to enter registration marks, assessment data and Profiles through the Focus menu!! CMIS to me seems a bit cluttered, with everything squashed in one place... but thats just an observation.
john Posted July 20, 2007 Posted July 20, 2007 I scare teachers with CMIS main screen, they say why don't I use the eportal, its because I can actually work a database! I think its the fact that I have all the modules so on a 17" screen i get 2 rows of menubar instead of just 1.
Guest monkeyx Posted July 21, 2007 Posted July 21, 2007 I please teachers showing them what the reporting engine within CMIS Facility can produce. Not really sure what that has got to do with web version of SIMS though? Like i said in an earlier post staff love using a single web interface to enter and retrieve the information. Is that not the point of this thread ? Our front office use the eportal web interface to look student up information as well. Facility versus SIMS.net is another thread. And one that I could write at length on, I would be standing in the Facility corner of that debate as well. Having used both sets of programs for a reasonable amount of time.
jenny_urey Posted November 7, 2007 Posted November 7, 2007 "Reporting for teachers would be so good if it could be done from home by logging into a secured server at school. Similarly the reduced hardware and support requirements of web based lesson registration would be hugely beneficial" Mark; you are right and we have done it. Jenny PARS Training Officer TASC Software - Premier SIMS Partner
joseph Posted March 22, 2013 Posted March 22, 2013 (edited) Sorry for reviving this thread but I couldn't help it... 6 years after we are still waiting for this to happen... Edited March 22, 2013 by joseph
zag Posted March 22, 2013 Posted March 22, 2013 Well.. you only have to look as far as the Sims Learning Gateway to work out why Capita can't write a web platform based product. I'm all for re-using things in web development, but plonking a few web parts on a complicated Microsoft portal is pushing it a little
fiza Posted March 22, 2013 Posted March 22, 2013 Ive gone from a school using SIMS SLG to a school using TASC Insight. The difference is incredible. Insight is so much better. Its unbelievable how Capita get away with it especially considering how much they charge for it. 1
vikpaw Posted March 23, 2013 Posted March 23, 2013 Sorry for reviving this thread but I couldn't help it... 6 years after we are still waiting for this to happen... A year ago, it wasn't on their 5 year plan, but i bet they have a lot of plans, and that could well have been replaced. A lot of new services are increasingly cloud like, and there have been massive changes to SLG. I can imagine it's a slow process changing a behemoth like SIMS over to cloud
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