GREED

Or even... give a useful reason, perhaps a possible way to fix the error... or is that too stupid?

Keep us all updated on your efforts, am sorry to hear the problems you are having.

I completely agree @matt40k and actually I think I said that all though my Aspen tenure: while I understand it, I loathe the fact that you cannot make the system as good as it possibly could be because you have had to make it open to the rest of the market, and personally I don't feel that is fair. But then it was the same with Microsoft, they made the best products (lets not argue that point before anyone starts, I'm making a point) but forced to do things so others had a fair chance. End of the day, other providers a) need to step up to the mark in terms of making it equal or better, and these days there are one or two! And b) are actively selling in vast numbers, taking away just as many as you are gaining, as each MIS is different. I have always said, there is an MIS for every school, not necessarily the same one. One just fits better.

You mean it isn't/doesn't now?

Can you elaborate on the details of the issues at all?

Sims XP Or knowing Capita... Sims Vista

Let this man take you for lunch, you'll eat with dead people! Fun conversations indeed @bringmoredata If @matt40k ever leaves Suffolk, I have first dibs on buying him a pint!

That is what I and @matt40k have been doing...

Just let us do it for you

Hey if you got the time go right ahead I wish I had the time to be able to do and publish the in depth analysis. Regardless of the output it would be good to keep it live or as live as possible for all to see year on year.

@MoodleGeek welcome to the forum, please feel free to introduce yourself, or are you Guy Thomas himself?

I have requested census 2010 and 2011 data to combine with 2012 and 2013 I already have to publicise the changes over 4 years, particularly given most contracts are 3 years. I'll put some pretty charts together too. @matt40k maybe something to work on together then and share, I was looking at the phases of schools to analyse too, you seem to be going one stage further I want to combine it with the MIS survey result, would be a good publication.

Cough cough SIMS 8...

How often is this happening and at what intervals? It is a rubbish solution but you could set up a nightly report to pull behaviour records, then when you have evidence and a time scale of when changes occurred, you can at least round it down and begin to look at the access logs to see who was logged in at that time. Like I say, not the best or nicest solution, but is a start.

If he designs one I'll get one made up. I'm serious!

I'm going to get one in time for Edugeek Conference this year. Serious.

Lets not loose focus here, this has been a very interesting topic with lots of view put forward. That is key, they are opinions. @matt40k has an opinion (doesn't he always!) which has been countered by yourself @Bromcom-PR there is no need to become frustrated because some readers have not come to the same conclusions you wanted. If that were fair, I would have beaten @matt40k with is own keyboard by now! I would say this has walked a fine line on advertising, you started this thread with the aim of showing how Bromcom MIS is more efficient and so more cost effective particularly in LA situations. I would say you have done this well by just staying on the right side of the line. Where you crossed that line was with the now-deleted post where you invited people to call the sales line. I think we can mostly put this thread to bed now, all of us have said our piece and it is clear there is still room for debate without resolution.

Like a digital pig in virtual cloudy $#!/

But this is assuming that the decision is based on cost alone? Or even just because it is cloud? Your argument doesn't take into account anything about the operation or functionality of the software. The cloud offering might be £1 but if it is a rubbish application then it won't be chosen. I might suspect that Norfolk chose SIMS because it is proven to be a functional solution and then got a decent price for it. Cannot believe I would say this, me, but SIMS is a capable solution if old... Why else does it have 18000 odd schools? One might question that the functionality is lacking in other solutions, or something else is missing, otherwise your argument would hold up.

Well, let me see if I can add anything here. Firstly, this whole thread is not unbiased, while treading carefully not to blatantly break the rules there has been the underlying message that Bromcom is better than SIMS in a hosted environment. For this thread to have really been worth much it would have been better to have compared two products where there is not a vested interest (Say SIMS and Progresso (when it is working ), or SIMS and Aspen MIS . In fact I think the only reason Mods have let this fly is it encompasses some very interesting fact and stimulus for discussion. Next, yes SaaS should always be 'better' than client/server in terms of performance for the masses. Lets not argue the toss as to what is meant by 'better'. If SaaS applications are not then they have not been built particularly well. I'm still unconvinced by the difference between SaaS and 'SoSaaS' and blurring that with Cloud too, but for the moment lets leave that there too. I'm not saying they are equal I just don't think they exist separately under definition. I have to agree with @matt40k this test was titled at 'Efficiency of Server Utilization' but then focuses simply on memory usage, and I'd be interested to know how this memory usage was checked (not just firing up system manager I hope). Regardless, memory is only one aspect of server efficiency, and I would argue, keeping in mind how cheap memory is these days compared to other requirement, the least important. It is/was also the most obvious that was going to be a winner. @matt40k you lost me on your calculations, I'm not questioning but I need walking through and understanding the point you are making. I agree with @Bromcom_PR you have taken this figure wrong, I read this as £300k for all primary schools, so £1k per school. Not bad. Regardless, there is the argument that with this '50-fold' saving then should Bromcom be proportionally cheaper than SIMS? I'm not suggesting 50 fold as there are different overheads associated with a different style of technology, but significantly cheaper none the less. I'm not commenting further as I really don't know typical prices. My real question though is where is the raw data for comparison, I'd like to know exactly how the test was run, what were the results, under what conditions, what controls were put into place, how often was this test run over a period of time... For this to be as scientific as it is being made out to be I would want to know these things from an objective standpoint. I am forced to agree again with @matt40k (what is wrong with the world!), this being used as sales banter, hard-lined 'evidence' to thrust onto LAs and the likes is not evidence at all. Firstly, this should be run independently of and MIS supplier to ensure fair play. By reputable individuals to produce results, those result able to be used by anyone as evidence to their claims. I'd like to have seen much larger conclusions made on the document too, not a small graphic with a single figure of memory use. This is not evidence nor scientific. I would argue too that such a test, for it to be really useful, would be to routinely test against all major suppliers, and in particular other web based solutions, there are a fair number out there now! As well, is this really sales banter, would an LA really make a huge decision like this based on the fact that one uses less memory than the other? There is no question Bromcom MIS will be more efficient overall that SIMS (all 300 odd installations), don't really think that needed mentioning or 6 pages of posts to work out. SIMS 8 in 3 years will be interesting then... I did consider including a bench test in the MIS Challenge (which is nearly finished now BTW), perhaps if there were enough interested parties I'll consider it for the summer... I'd like to caveat this before I get snotty emails or phone calls; you all know me well enough on here to know I always challenge SIMS and @PhilNeal and while I have no great love or allegiance personally for Capita (Just look at some of my past posts!) I do respect them and their achievements professionally, as much as I do anyone else, and will always put forward an objective opinion on their product and anyone else's. Perhaps I should do a full PC Pro style review of all MISs later in year!

I'd like to think Aspen came close on that front Matt Cross country potential... Interesting how the DE will make big data accessable

Thanks Phillip and my apologies. I have no recollection, are you sure I was at that one?

You and your facts Matt!

Oh I agree I take the BBC very lightly too. However the details of the story, it is a very very loose link but has been massively blown out of proportion, as usual by the Fail. This could cost her her job... and for what? I have no particular love for Harmen but still... It's like saying if you had a dodgy teacher on your books (you know what I mean) then by association all other teacher are dodgy too...

Here is a debate starter: when does freedom of speech become blatant lies and smear? When will the press be stopped from writing whatever drivel to make headlines and controversy and ruin lives...