GREED

Graham: 1, Hovis, Kingsmeal: 0 Used my new breadmaker last night and despite putting only half the required water in to start with, turned out brilliant and so very very tasty. I reckon costs about 30p per loaf in materials, probably about 20p max in 'lecy. But you know what tastes bloody brilliant!

Sounds like an awesome plan. So can we have drone wars inside Excel? As craft come down they explode on stands, points for taking out certain stands!

Thanks Richard great to hear. When everything is collated I will send to you.

Lindsay @LiHoll Welcome to the forum Just an FYI, usually you would have your hand slapped by the mods for encouraging/promoting your own software. But (mods) think this is relevant in this thread It might be good if you want to respond publicly to some of the points made here?

Actually, at that time it was very close to being that and there were a lot of additional use unique to Aspen that the council could would have taken on. I believe there was a breakdown in communication between our mutual partner at the time. MODS: Can we move the last half dozen posts on Aspen to a different thread?

Good. It is an excellent product. Wouldn't have won a contract to supply all of British Columbia, Canada otherwise! It is no longer on offer in the UK, correct. Not necessarily for good though... I'll say no more

It's being piloted in NI now, early versions anyway. 3 years to wait yet.

There was nothing wrong with my sales talk...

I'm be very professional (and honest) in that is (was) a very good system, very much up there with the best on offer. Wish I could have shown it to you @matt40k I know your team were very interested in it! I won't comment further on where it is now, despite not having worked for them for a few months now.

It is much the same in the feedback I have from current or soon to be Progresso schools. Admittedly raising public opinion from the depths it was to a nominal level shouldn't be too hard, that said it is starting to look like the next gen system it promised to be.

I caught the repeat last night. Very very poorly edited into 30 minutes it almost made no sense. That Katie woman on there... cracked me up. Was she high? I don't disagree with the general points she was making but coming across so aggressive just made here look a complete tit!

I know, thanks @David_Grashoff he decided to tell me Friday night, so decided to give him a break too from my usual light hearted bashing (and ironically be supportive of Capita for a bit!). Indeed, these messages were intended for his return!

That is a very good question to ask. I won't ask specifically how much it costs as I don't want to make that a basis for comparison, but I will ask if the API is free to use or there are costs involved.

I'd like to point out I am looking for contributions of questions to put to the suppliers!!!

Apologies. If a mod wouldn't mind doing a bit of editing, I can no longer edit the post.

Actually I believe Edubase will be included in the data warehouse, and the information will be accessed via an API for those that want to retrieve information.

This is a personal crusade, it has nothing to do with the work I do regardless that I work in the same sector. My day job pays the bills. Matt surely you know me well enough to know I have a passion for this, as sad as that sounds, I want to ensure the market knows what is out there, who can do what in a very objective way. I'm allied with no one, now, it is the opportunity I have wanted for over 2 years to be truely independent and do this. No back handers, no favours. It is in each suppliers interest to reply, and show they are up to the challenge of this market. Replies will only be edited to keep them objective (to the facts, no spouting off about how they are better than x and y). There will also be no pricing, this is a technical comparison and not a marketing ad! This will differ from the DfE IMLS framework because a) it will be about the product 100% (plus a bit on support), and not about 30% product, 70% 'how much is your company worth', and b) the results will be public and easy to find, not well hidden!

What do you mean? No one is paying me for this. LRS, SFA, Awarding Organisations... just to name a few will all remain separate. I also refer to inter school, internal school and support organisations including LAs having the data. It is a monumental project with huge scope and exciting prospects. Still a few aspects that need to be worked out but the concept is there.

Possibly not as Serco Learning is now defunct

CMIS is now Advanced Learning, same chaps doing Progresso

Love you sweetie

I'd suggest having a look at this first: http://www.edugeek.net/forums/mis-systems/131286-edugeek-mis-challenge.html#post1122047 Most on that list are web based solutions (cloud is a misappropriated term from most suppliers!). I think the survey will answer that too. I'd happily respond privately about my experiences with systems, you have a good list so far of who to talk to. The survey too will be an interesting indicator, particularly who sees it as worthy to respond to (given how popular and public the results will become it is in their interest to respond). I personally have to be a little careful as I do work with most suppliers too, hence the objective nature of the survey. It is hard too because I am a big believer in there is a right MIS for the right school, no one MIS suits all schools, not by a long way, and that is not just between phases. You'll be sensible to have an array of the larger suppliers in your portfolio, like those you have mentioned currently, and keep tabs on the market to see who is emerging and who is falling away.

This particular forum is one of the busiest on all of Edugeek, proving we have a real interest in data systems in schools (proving too that some more than others have a bug here and there!). A set of recent conversations, at BETT, on here and elsewhere in the last 2 weeks have reignited a burning desire (no pun intended!) to formulate, ask and publish a set of probing questions to the MIS supplier market. A little bit of back story: Most regulars here know a bit about me, my past working life on both sides of the MIS fence, and my often unrestrained opinions on any number of subjects. Tell it how it is but give credit where credit is due, and yes I do even praise Capita now and then! For a long time now, I have felt that the MIS market is due a revolution, but perhaps not in the way most think; that a new player will emerge and take away huge swathes of the market with a ground braking new system or concept. Lets be fair, the technology is primed for this, but the implementation, market restrictions, legislation, etc etc makes this a difficult task before you start... we've see two large suppliers exit in recent times. My feeling is such that the MIS as we see it today is actually trying to do far too much, and by doing that the market is stifled of innovation. Now don't get me wrong I am never going to say that an MIS will not try and expand to make more money, of course it will. But in doing so, most of the time the ability to plug in alternate systems is made that much more difficult, often as a consequence of the development, sometimes deliberately (I will not go further here but I know it has happened). I have always seen an MIS as being the jack of all trades, master of none, and very much feel this is where a school could look to ensure it gets the very best from it's data systems as a whole. An MIS whose jot it is to store and process the data, complete statutory data exchanges, perhaps perform some of the administrative tasks, but have the ability to hand off specialist services to dedicated software vendors who are experts in the field. Areas that spring to mind include messaging, finance, assessment/progress tracking/performance analysis, hardware integration (things like cashless catering), learning environments... there are loads more. Real time data integration is a real thing and very active in schools, and I find schools that take elements of the services mentioned above, but on the whole stick to their MIS for most services, even though they might be more expensive or less functional. With the governments Data Exchange & Warehouse coming online in the next few years data movement will be increasing ten fold and I foresee inter school and internal school data interconnectivity following suit, but this still relies on the core MIS, it's capabilities and ultimately a school's desire to have the very best from their systems, or being able to choose from the systems on offer now that switching from MIS to MIS has finally left the shadows of the taboo... And here lies another problem. We all know Capita. Most know Advanced Learning (because it is no longer SERCO), a lot know RM, fewer know Pearson (because it is gone now!), on and on. I've actually had an 'argument' with an exec from one of the suppliers when I said that most schools STILL only know of SIMS and CMIS, regardless of how much marketing you have done or how good your product is... that is still most public opinion, and it is a very old opinion! So, as part of that, I'm planning on writing to all 14 (yes, 14! There are 3 others but one is an in house system used by a leading Academy chain, and two others are entering the market in the next 6-12 months) of the known MIS suppliers with a set of probing questions about their products, their plans for the future, etc. Get everything out in the open for all us on here to see and to finally be able to make an informed choice on what is best for my school. Or at least be informed as to who is actually out there! Questions will be standardised for everyone, will not be biased, will not be offensive or look to suggest offence, and will be framed as an opportunity to positively present ones MIS product without promoting or saying 'my MIS is the best because...', all with the aim of providing unbiased information on the MIS market to the masses. Something I have wanted to do for 2 years (but my previous employment prevented that somewhat!). I'd like to invite contributions to the question pool. Remember, they need to be open for everyone to answer! I will find a suitable media with which to present responses, on Edugeek directly would be great but logistically it might be a problem. Once again, everything will be objective, I'm not looking to bash anyone here, I want responses to present so the market know who it actually available (and not just Capita and Serco... opps I mean Advanced Learning... see!) Oh and for reference, my list of known MIS suppliers operating in the UK is below, a useful reference in itself (and do let me know if I have missed anyone, no matter how small): Capita Advanced Learning RM Bromcom Furlong Arbor Scholarpack iSAMS WCBS Tribal Double First SchoolPod Wauton Samuel SEEMIS (Scotland Only really) UPDATE: The MIS Challenge is hosted at: What is the MIS Survey? | Eduware Consulting The Market Analysis, expanding on top of the original analysis from @matt40k is available at: Market Statistics | Eduware Consulting Market Analysis statistics are based on the past census results, so this should be taken as a general feel of the market rather than the exact numbers (as some schools are missing both now and in previous years which form part of the calculations. Feedback on this project welcome too Graham

This proves my point that 2 suppliers on this list no longer have a product to sell, and one has changed hands (and so no longer should be on the list according to my recent chat with their BDM!) Hummm, I do see your point but if you are a softwarehouse and you are going to invest in a big way, to not be compliant and so very quickly fall down either through law or through your customer base throwing the book at you, would be the most monumental school-boy error. But in fact I return to a quote from Mr Neal, which is truth, that you could get on the IMLS framework without actually having a product (and so having your product tested), which does make a mockery of the whole thing, and I suspect you could get away with just as much on most frameworks. I work for an integration specialist company, I don't support schools as such but work with most of the major MIS suppliers and supporting system suppliers. I gather from reading your website you are scoping to see who is worth your investment to support and offer services to customers? FYI I know of 16 suppliers/systems that operate in the UK (or will be in the next 6-12 months).

Looks very much like a government framework that no one knew about. Which is nothing new. This really wouldn't make me blink one way or another to be honest. Why is a government accreditation important? I'm not being awkward but I know what hoops you had to go through for the IMLS framework... and if @PhilNeal is about he will testify this too, frameworks are tools to make procurement easier not necessarily to give the suppliers on it a positive rubber stamp for whatever the framework is about... In the real world everyone will take several sources of information particularly customer reviews. No disrespect to Arbor I know the guys there well and they do have a decent solution. But to suggest that RM, Bromcom, AL, Scholarpack... etc, are not appropriate to store sensitive information in the cloud is a big leap, just because they are not on this framework. And they all have web based solutions now...