Grommit

My way of ICT in schools would be... Each LEA employ uber Education Consultants that liase with the School Network Managers giving them advice, encouragement and assistance if needed.. These Uber Consultants will also make sure the schools are kept up to Government specs... Yet the ICT remains in house and under the control of the Head and the ICT Manager, but monitored by the uber LEA consultants who will also audit the ICT manager to see what training they need to run the School Network... so we have In house ICT and Investors in People... Not just a big massive cold company So I believe that we are approaching this from the wrong angle is we go only to the Managed Service Companies..... RM will try to pacify you because they don't want Edugeek / Network Managers trying to disrupting their BSF ICT steamroller.. so they feed you what you want to hear and you feel pacified.. (ahhh they presented their happy RM technician... ahhh sweet he's happy and life is beautiful...) well they ain't going to show you the ones that are pissed off are they ?? The Angle could be..... I think that someone should contact [email protected] who did this story on the massive costs of outsourcing... http://observer.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,,2078236,00.html#article_continue And you can use the massive costs that is involved in the BSF managed services model.... against the In House option ....it is a massive waste of money a humongous waste of money like the NHS.. maybe this is the angle you could take with him ... http://www.edugeek.net/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=8528 You also said that the only way is getting the Government to step in.. well the government is concerned and if newspapers start speaking about the massive cost wastage in the ICT part.. then maybe people will start to take notice.. and give the schools more options.. Like this Article on how the BSF is mucking up.. http://education.guardian.co.uk/schools/story/0,,1991243,00.html Or this Damning report.. by the Commons Education Committee news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/ed...935505.stm where the Commons Education Committee says there are risks ... and the schools are paying for ICT services they are tied into and cannot get out of... Maybe going to the Press and speaking to [email protected] might open other avenues.... instead of trusting a big corporation

I believe that the two people that are working on the BSF problem Grumbledook and russdev are supportive of the BSF process.. So are they thinking from the right angle ?

Sorry mate... I have been through the BSF process and I saw what it did... I was there when they said "All ICT is to be taken over and you will be assimilated" .... (Moved to new thread)

Heh heh... :-).. No mate... they mean the entire LA or LEA.... When the BSF come they are going to gut your network... everything..... and build a Windows Domain from Scratch... All you boxes apart from the folders and pst's are gone gone gone.... unless you have servers under 18 months old.. anything over 3 years is out the window.. back on topic.. What OS are the workstations using ?... because if it's XP then the argument of cost implications goes out the window as all you are doing is installing Exchange, IIS and ISA... which wont cost much at all... So you need a better argument.. And look at the qmail website and you wonder why people avoid *nix... http://qmail.internet.bs/top.html

@user3204.. Yes all schools can choose to be in or out of the BSF... but what's ther enot to choose about 15 to 20 Million Pounds ? We are a Foundation School.. because we want no interference from other schools and yes we do assist our feeder schools.. Under the BSF you ENTIRE ICT Support department is handed over to a 3rd Party Contractor... You will be offered a job with this new company.. You will no longer be involved with purchasing ICT equiptment as this will be between the new company sales consultant and the Senior Staff of your school.. You will no longer be able to decide on what you can do with the School Network as this will all be decided by the new comapny..

You cannot say that ... You are making massive assumptions and cannot guarantee peoples jobs if they are TUPED as you grandiosely state… 8)

MY God!!!! You have gone over to The Darkside... Our School is a Foundation School.. because the SLT wanted freedom from the LA or LEA.. thhis was after the BSF finished.... The only thing that MIGHT link us to other schools is the VLE...... Thats all... and that damn pesky PLASC return... nothing else.. Also having a shared Managed Service is not really going to make much difference to the over all Teaching and Learning .. is it? and as for cheaper.. our in-house support costs £ 70 000 for 24 hour support and will do anything asked BSF wanted £133 000 wtih a whole lot of no no's... like legacy equiptment over 3 years not supported..etc So double the price.. less the service

Foundation Schools are part of the BSF

Cheaper but a goodie.. HP 1320N...

It is unfair to say that. I agree that working under a managed service will inevitably be stifling and the way that they are run reduces the chance to be innovative. My point was that you will not necessarily end up as a toner-changer or be sacked after 90 days. What is certain is that the LA who writes the tender documents will decide what they feel you should be doing and that is what the managed service will be contracted to provide. So me as a Network Manager and Budget Holder can be assured of a equally Paid, Positioned, Responsibility Job with the Managed Service Providor.... if the LA writes it in... I don't think so... I think Technicians have a role to play and most will be TUPED...and good on them... they will be TUPED over fine.. I mean what's the difference if you are changing toners for the school undr the NM's instruction or for the New Guys.. it's about Network Managers that I have been talking about.. I think ICT Managers have no position to look forward too... so lets say on average a ICT Manager has 2 -3 Technicians .. he is equal to 25 - 33% of the workforce.. This means that 25 - 33% of Schools ICT workforce have no clear future prospects.. So please tell me what RM said about Network Managers to put me at rest ..

I think some people are starting to suffer from Stockholm Syndrome

Need advice here please.. i am trying to deploy 21st Century Science 1/ Make a UNC share on server where MSI is 2/ Move PC to Container where the PC's that are to get the software 3/ Add GPO to Container 4/ In GPO select > Computer > Software > Software Installation > New 5/ Find and Assign Package.. Yet is doesn't seem to want to deploy and install.. Am I doing anything wrong ?

Some people are so naive and gullible.... You expect a massive company like RM to be bothered by "Contracts" for every contract there is a way around the contract... that's what Lawyers do mate... find loopholes.. (i have sacked people myself through loopholes.. find a weak spot in the contract and expose it... ..) How many times have you heard of people being laid off AFTER they had been promised secure jobs and such ?!?.. exactly.. hundreds of times.. And as for BSF.. haven't some contract wins been sub contracted out to 3rd parties ? Also didn't the PFI/BSF allow a school to make a business case to keep ICT Support in house.. YET the BSF then closed that loophole ? I have stared the BSF Beast in the eyes.. and it turned my hair silver.... Me... I'm looking for another career... as I can't be arsed with this bloody threat of either TUPING down or retrenchment hanging over my head anymore... it's too stressful....

Cool... Not really needed at work are we ?

If these desks are like the ones we had I would watch them really closely. I know you said that they are teacher’s desks, but unless they are in a teacher only area [staffroom etc] the students may like to pull pranks like closing the lids on the keyboards deliberately to break the desk mechanism, or closed the lid on the mouse/keyboard cable in an attempt to sever the said cable… I could go on, but I don’t want to give ideas to students reading these posts: Ideas that may not have occurred to them already. This is exactly why we rejected the RM Intellidesks.....

Yep... we had two Network Managers at two Shools who were involved with the BSF from the start They helped and assisted the BSF Consultants, advised the Head and even developed the specifications and design for the New Network and helped setup tender documents for the ICT Managed services Contract.. At the Start the Heads said that they wanted to keep their Network Managers and they had worked with them for years and they were an asset to the school.. At the end the Heads let their Network Managers go because there was no place for them in the new BSF model... and the NM's did not want to become bog standard Technicians But all along the heads kept saying to the NM's.. don't worry you are too important to us for us to lose you..... but once the ICT went out of the Heads hands, they either had to make a new role onsite for the NM's without them having any involvement in ICT or let them go.. Well they were let go.. (retrenched as there was no position for them) But the bottom line is the money offered by the BSF was too much to lose to keep the ICT In-House

Some people on this site look at the BSF in a cold clinical light and think that it will help the development of ICT for the Children and have no real concern of the affect it will have on ICT Managers and Senior IT support staff..... .. this is because they are in high curricular positions and are not affected by the BSF steamroller… But…. The bottom line is we Network Managers have to look to our future and under the BSF it isn't very good, in fact we are obsolete...... Yes... Every Child Matters… but so do we, our life and our family's security.. if we can ‘t pay the mortgage, can’t support and feed our own kids because we are unemployed and over 35 and unemployable what then ?!?….. Do we sacrifice our careers like dumb martyrs and happily assist the BSF Consultants in taking our livelihood away? Yes all this Millions of Pounds being pumped into the schools ICT is fantastic.. but what good is it to us if we are on the dole? You hear of hundreds of IT Staff/Managers that are unemployable because they are in the upper 30's and beyond... plus all of our skills are in the Education Sector We have to put ourselves first.. and not walk ourselves out of a job... http://management.silicon.com/careers/0,39024671,39120958,00.htm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2417325.stm http://psyche.uthct.edu/nes/wwwboard/messages/120.html http://www.efa.org.uk/age/business.asp http://www.materialstoday.com/pdfs/june_2006/mt0906editorial.pdf

Good luck mate.. He will most probally say that these points below are between you and the company selected to do the managed services... But you ask him what is the general SLA of the BSF The main questions I would raise in the hope of having the Heads back you up is 1/ Who do the technicians work for 2/ Who can instruct the technicians 3/ If there is a job that is not part of the SLA like moving a printer would a PO have to be raised before the job can be done 4/ If a child has damaged a PC thats needed for a lesson is this covered by the SLA or does a job for additional works have to be raised. 5/ If a teacher wants a CD put onto the network does an additional order have to be raised. 6/ What happens to my position will I be retrenched or TUPED as a Technician.. Some people on this site look at the BSF in a cold clinical light and think that it will help the development of ICT for the Children and have no real concern of the affect it will have on ICT Managers and Senior IT support staff..... .. this is because they are in high curricular positions and are not affected by the BSF steamroller… But…. The bottom line is we Network Managers have to look to our future and under the BSF it isn't very good, in fact we are obsolete...... Yes... Every Child Matters… but so do we, our life and our family's security.. if we can ‘t pay the mortgage, can’t support and feed our own kids because we are unemployed and over 35 and unemployable what then ?!?….. Do we sacrifice our careers like dumb martyrs and happily assist the BSF Consultants in taking our livelihood away? Yes all this Millions of Pounds being pumped into the schools ICT is fantastic.. but what good is it to us if we are on the dole? You hear of hundreds of IT Staff/Managers that are unemployable because they are in the upper 30's and beyond... plus all of our skills are in the Education Sector We have to put ourselves first.. and not walk ourselves out of a job... management.silicon.com...958,00.htm news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/bu...417325.stm psyche.uthct.edu/nes/w...s/120.html http://www.efa.org.uk/age/business.asp http://www.materialstoday.com...torial.pdf

He seems to be avoiding you... Seems you have a Communication Problem or you do not have enough "clout" to make this peon jump..

Can you not just delete the log files ?

Where are the guarantees that IT managed services will be any better? This boils down to how the SLA is set up between the LEP, the school and the specific company. Companies that fail to meet the required standards or give a service that leads to a drop in performance of the schools will be financially penalised ... and it could be quite heavily. But by that time all the in-house Technicans have gone to the new company or retrenched.. and the Network Manager is so other lower role, sidelined or retrenched.. So it is a case of putting all you eggs in one basket and hoping for the best as there is no IT Manager to assist the School with it's problems and it will be up to the Teaching Staff or Business Manager to deal with these issues.. and hopefully the Business Manager has the ICT Knowledge to know what he requires.. or to spot if they are speaking rubbish And by God do not get into a dispute with your Managed Service Company because they like lots of other companies do.. might withhold service untill they are paid.. yes yes Tony I know there are checks and balances.. but the bottom line is on Grass roots level that most companies play the blame game... I deal with it every day.. they all try to squirm out of responsibility and blame it on the kids..... and it's lots of companies that do this when it is plainly in their scope of works.... Now I as an ICT Manager stand my ground because I know what is right .. whats a Business Manager going to do ? "Its the Flux Capacitor on the Server Mr Business Manager"... "It's worn out and its not under warrenty"... "It's gonna cost £500 to replace"... In Fact I saw RM once replace a 80GB HDD into a server and they charged the school £600 Then me as a feeder school Network Manager saw this and spoke to the Head that this was out of order and excessive.... we confronted RM who dropped the price to £300.. Now if I as a feeder school Network Manager was not there then they would have paid up not knowing that it was wrong..

which one has the FSMO roles ? and which has the Global Catalogue

Think of all the booze you can afford and all the partying you can do when the folks are paying the bills....

http://www.petri.co.il/transferring_fsmo_roles.htm But this is transfering the roles... so isn't the logon then still reliant on one DC ?

3 servers ahve DNS and only the Main DC does the DHCP role How do you distribute the FSMO roles ?