pooley Posted November 28, 2012 Posted November 28, 2012 Just wondering if any Primary/Secondary schools in Wales have flat networks, out LA has issues with having Sims accessible from the curriculum side. Si
FN-GM Posted November 28, 2012 Posted November 28, 2012 How backward thinking and silly.... Sorry i cant help but thought i would tell you what i think of it
witch Posted November 28, 2012 Posted November 28, 2012 Really? Even through a firewall between the networks? Our LA doesnt like it either and this is their solution. It works OK but is a pain to set up as every laptop has to have two reserved IPs - one for wired and one for wireless
rich_tech Posted December 5, 2012 Posted December 5, 2012 we have two networks here side by side (admin and curriculum) and our LEA run our sims on curriculum via an admin side share without much fuss from what I can tell.
slugshead Posted February 13, 2013 Posted February 13, 2013 Just wondering if any Primary/Secondary schools in Wales have flat networks, out LA has issues with having Sims accessible from the curriculum side. Si Some have VLANs, some don't. No VLANS = sims, VLANS = no sims.
Chrish5 Posted April 3, 2014 Posted April 3, 2014 Yeah our network is flat, while some from the LA said we shouldn't be running like that it was the LEA that set it up in the first place. Teachers logon to the curriculum server and have access to SIMS.
slugshead Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 Yeah our network is flat, while some from the LA said we shouldn't be running like that it was the LEA that set it up in the first place. Teachers logon to the curriculum server and have access to SIMS. Times change, kit gets better, permissions get stronger. Think of the time before solid NTFS permissions, keep the two separate or you'll have unwanted access in your MIS/administration documents. These days it's just down to dull users not understanding what a complex password is which is easily guessable...
mikes Posted October 15, 2015 Posted October 15, 2015 our secondary school network is flat too, and our LEA (the Vale of Glamorgan) is complaining about our network being flat. We are getting a new school in a year so hopefully we can have a split then. I can't set it up myself - I only work part time (teacher hours) and I am the only technician.
MatthewL Posted October 15, 2015 Posted October 15, 2015 Separate admin and curriculum networks is so old and causes so many issues. I tend to find them in areas where no one seems to know what they are doing and as its easier for them to do it than sort permissions out your stuck. Might as well be on different sides of the UK for all I care with the lack of support I get at times. Yes no issue with local VLAN's, good to separate traffic but having a server VLAN is always a good idea I think. In the main with SIMS if you sort your NTFS out you will have no issues.
PotNoodleTech Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 (edited) Wow are you're LEA trying to go back in time? Do they mean a physically seperare network, or a physically flat, virtually separate network using vlans? Physically Separate Admin and Curric networks are at least 10 years out of date, it was a necessity in the days of Windows 95 and NT4 server. Since then we have the following advancements: Active Directory so we have full control over who is who and what is what and where is where. Share permissions so we could ensure only certain groups can access the SIMS shares. NTFS Permissions so we can lock the crap down out of SIMS related areas both on the server and the client. Group Policy so we can specify exactly down to the letter what a pupil user can or can't access. (E.g I mandate the shortcuts that they get, even if they log on to a SIMS pc they won't get a SIMS shortcut) VLANS so that we can make sure that only certain network drops can access certain networks/servers - thus allowing the same security on a flat network as we used to get on a separate admin/curric network except without the extra cost of doubling up on cabinets/witches/drops/etc Here, I have a physically Flat network consinsting of multiple VLANS, Curric, Admin, Wireless. We were the first to do it in my LEA, back in ~2005 and rather than kick up a fuss, the LEA have actually followed suit as they have a physically flat network across [most of] the entire county but virtually separated into curric/admin/corporate/wireless/BYOD/etc all via VLANS on modern cisco switches. I used HP switches and still do - they do the same job. Edited October 16, 2015 by PotNoodleTech
dry Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 I inherited this setup- two separate domains (Admin/Curriculum). Claimed reasoning was it was more secure than all on same domain- not when you've got network shares, people incorrectly set up with administrator rights, a flat network and little thought on permissions! I'm gradually getting it set up properly and we're investing in new networking kit and virtualising the network. Latest advice from our LEA is it's fine to have SIMS on the same domain, just ensure permissions are configured correctly. 1
MatthewL Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 It's more common that you think, constantly get its for security, code of connection. Drives me up the wall.
GrumbleDook Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 Flat networks? But why? As others have said, there is no security reason that cannot be covered elsewhere. If the LA is only looking after the admin side of your network and so have to restrict the machines on there, then it is false economy. I spent years trying to break schools of this in Northants and thankfully the various external support teams there were switched on ...
nickbro Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 Flat network for me too, the only VLAN I have in place is to isolate the youth workers from our network, they drop onto the counties corporate network on a different subnet. Powys are fairly relaxed about what high schools do with their network, only really requiring a VLAN for split sites (Youth/Sports/School on one site). I got rid of our two AD (curriculum/admin) network a few years ago, haven't had an issue. Very few PCs have SIMS on them anymore, since registers are done via Go4Schools which is web based.
3s-gtech Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 We used to have two separate subnets, and separate domains. They were joined around ten years back, and the subnets put into one. We still have the separate domains, with the staff/admin one a child of the other with two way trusts. Works fine, but it's a bit old fashioned. Indicates how far out this ethos is.
ITGURU Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 Our Curriculum and admin networks have always been a flat network - providing you have hidden shares or have correct ntfs permissions in place there should be no need for it. Or even use the local server policy to restrict users who can even connect to the server, it makes it pretty secure. Staff and student computers are restricted with us so staff can only log on to teacher pcs, students onto student pcs so that's just another step to keep things secure as SIMS wont be on any student PCs, let along having access to the SIMS/SQL server.
forkies Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 We have a number of vlans, we used to be a flat network via lea but we had quite a lot of broadcast packets, since changing to vlans everything is much quieter and slightly faster. Good for security too generally. We had an audit from an external IT company and would have not met their "good" grade if we didn't have vlans.
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