JJonas Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) Calling all Edugeeks especially any in LEEDS Girl Sparks Urgent 999 Hunt In Leeds Police in West Yorkshire have launched an urgent appeal to trace a little girl who dialled 999 to say her mother was not moving. The girl, who gave her name as Ellie, called the ambulance service to say her mum had fallen at their home in Leeds. She said she was three years old and that her mother is called Stacey Hall. She also told the 999 operators that her house number was 23 and had "Mount" in the street name. She said her grandparents lived in Bridlington. The call was made at 10.53am yesterday but despite extensive enquiries since then the police have been unable to identify where it came from. Edited July 31, 2012 by JJonas
CAM Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) EDIT - No wait, Bridlington is where her grandparents live. Good job I don't work for 999. >.< Sad story though. Edited July 31, 2012 by CAM
JJonas Posted July 31, 2012 Author Posted July 31, 2012 BBC are saying During the call, which lasted 33 minutes, she said her house number was 23 and her address contained the word "Court". BBC News - West Yorkshire Police appeal over girl's 999 call
AMLinington Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) There are inconsistencies in the various stories. The BBC is reporting "During the call, which lasted 33 minutes, she said her house number was 23 and her address contained the word "Court". (BBC News - West Yorkshire Police appeal over girl's 999 call) So how can they expect to get a response when different sources cite different address details. Beaten to it by JJonas, but our point is the same. If she made a call, how come they can't backtrack the call like they claim to be able to do? Edited July 31, 2012 by AMLinington
Andrew_C Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 They can. Unless she called from a mobile, in which case the cell would be identifiable. I smell a rat...
AMLinington Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 They can. Unless she called from a mobile, in which case the cell would be identifiable. I smell a rat... Well exactly! Which begs several questions really: 1) Have the police fudged up? Have they somehow failed to have the correct call monitoring in place? 2) If the call was from a mobile phone and the cell location can be identified, a quick 'Google search' should yield possible addresses so what is wrong with the data they received? 3) The call was 33 minutes long. Why did the operator only manage to get 4 pieces of usable information: Ellie, Stacey Hall, 23, court? There are lots of questions you can ask a 3yo to get better answers: 'do you go to nursery/playgroup'?, 'what can you see out of the window'? 'Does anyone else live with you?' 'how do you get into your house? Do you have to climb stairs or go in a lift or do you have a garden?' Blimey even getting 1 word answers to those three questions would give you more to go on! Smell a rat indeed! What variety remains to be seen.
MacGeek Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 Yes, it is sooo easy to get answers out of a hysterical and terrified three year old whose mother is motionless on the floor. They did well to get what information they did. 1
Geoff Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) Well with my telcoms hat on: 1) They should have a recording of the call (they should be recording everything in a 999 call centre, I do and I'm only selling things). So there should not be any confusion over what was said. 2) Calls can be traced in most circumstances. Either down to the street address on a POTS line or at least to the cell on a mobile network. The only situation where it's impossible to trace geographically is when it's come via Skype, Google Voice or a SIP provider etc. Any reputable service offering Internet telephony wont let you dial 999 via their service specifically for this reason. Edited July 31, 2012 by Geoff
cpjitservices Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 Hmmm seems a bit far fetched also for a child to come up with this kind of story.
JJonas Posted July 31, 2012 Author Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) They do have a recording of they call, they have released it, play the video at the top of the page just been checking twitter there is no dedicated hash tag yet someone did tweet (to the police) a possible address they found using google Edited July 31, 2012 by JJonas
cpjitservices Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 The news have got the name wrong the little girls name is "Erin" not Ellie
JJonas Posted July 31, 2012 Author Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) News ticker on Sky now says it was a hoax http://news.sky.com/story/967204/999-call-that-sparked-hunt-in-leeds-was-hoax http://www.itv.com/news/story/2012-07-31/police-hunt-for-999-child-caller-in-leeds/ West Yorkshire Police have confirmed that the 999 call from 'Ellie' was a hoax. Police believe the call was made by two 10 year old girls living in Bridlington. Officers are current liaising with girls parents to decide what action to take. Edited July 31, 2012 by JJonas
MatthewL Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 Just a bit about the 999 system. When the call is taken by BT before been put through to the correct emergency service the number can be traced. If the call is made by mobile Cable & Wireless handle this and the phone co-ordinates are passed through the system to trace the call. Not all emergency services have the facility to see where the call was made from (you would of thought it be standard but it isn't, although slowly been introduced as control systems are upgraded). If a number cannot be traced BT or Cable & Wireless will stay connected until a trace is run. This happens pretty much every time a call is made from a mobile (happened both times I have rung 999 from my mobile). Alot of the 999 systems are using old technology and only now been upgraded as the funding has been made available. Cable & Wireless and BT are the two key players for the 999 system in the UK.
twin--turbo Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 Should be forced to do comunity service for a year, totally irresponsible and cruel. I remember a case a few years ago when a similar incident did hapen, I think it was a 4yrold boy who's mother passed away in their flat. He fended for himself for about 3-4 days until he was discovered. Rob
twin--turbo Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 Worse than I remember! Brave toddler survives alone in flat for two weeks | Mail Online
sonofsanta Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 BBC is saying hoax as well now: BBC News - Bridlington 10-year-olds 'behind 999 call hoax' Which is obviously good news in that there's no 3 year old trapped with the corpse of her mother, but terrible news in that ten year olds - ten! - find this amusing. Although saying that, James Bulger's killers were only ten, weren't they? Country, going to the dogs, etc. etc. I blame the education system
Little-Miss Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) OMG, I'd be mortified if they were my kids! I dropped my phone at work and somehow dialled 999! I was riddled with guilt all day afterwards even though it lasted seconds! Edited July 31, 2012 by Little-Miss
twin--turbo Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 OMG, I'd be mortified if they were my kids! I dropped my phone at work and somehow dialled 999! I was riddled with guilt all day afterwards even though it lasted seconds! When we first had our current IP phone system put in the company doing it were a bit crap. They did not put in a network access digit (eg 9 for an external number) for a start... And we had extensions ranging 100-199 , our attendance officer complained that he could make internal calls, but no one could call him. Other users complained that when they dialed his extension 112 they got through to the emergency services!!! Installed by Professionals!!!! Rob
glennda Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 When we first had our current IP phone system put in the company doing it were a bit crap. They did not put in a network access digit (eg 9 for an external number) for a start... And we had extensions ranging 100-199 , our attendance officer complained that he could make internal calls, but no one could call him. Other users complained that when they dialed his extension 112 they got through to the emergency services!!! Installed by Professionals!!!! Rob When I setup mine using FreePBX i forgot to setup a rule so that 999 and 112 went down the SIP trunks. It wasn't until somebody tried to do it that they realised it didn't work! Lesson learnt on that!
AMLinington Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 BBC is saying hoax as well now: BBC News - Bridlington 10-year-olds 'behind 999 call hoax' Which is obviously good news in that there's no 3 year old trapped with the corpse of her mother, but terrible news in that ten year olds - ten! - find this amusing. Although saying that, James Bulger's killers were only ten, weren't they? Country, going to the dogs, etc. etc. I blame the education system The problem is not education, the problem is the parents. Either they do not discipline their children properly, instill correct moral values on them, or have been hampered by the nanny state into having no power to discipline. There is a HUGE difference between giving a naughty child a smack on the hand or bum and beating them to within an inch of their lives and it is the inability or apathy of parents when disciplining their children that is the root cause of these issues. IMHO. The family unit has been so eroded by government intervention and societal change that moral values are no longer instilled in children. They think it's okay to put their hands in a dirty nappy, smear it on someone's face and yell 'Poo hands'. Their ineffectual or indulgent parents stand by and laugh whilst their child run riot then wonder why they can't control them at home. Partly because there is a morbid fear of social services being called if you dare to give a screaming bratty child a smack on the hand or bum. 'Don't hit Mummy, that's not nice' is about as effectual against a kicking, screaming 5yo as a fart is in a tornado! 1
SteveBentley Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 If the call is made by mobile Cable & Wireless handle this and the phone co-ordinates are passed through the system to trace the call. Not all emergency services have the facility to see where the call was made from The other issue is that 999 calls from a mobile are not necessarily handled by the local control room. Had the call been made from a landline the hoax would be obvious as it would have been taken by Humberside police and clearly not have come from Leeds.
Sdrawkcab Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 Should be forced to do comunity service for a year, totally irresponsible and cruel. They're ten. I'm pretty glad you aren't in charge of this sort of thing if you think a years community service is an apt punishment for a ten year old child.
AMLinington Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 They're ten. I'm pretty glad you aren't in charge of this sort of thing if you think a years community service is an apt punishment for a ten year old child. Community service isn't always about picking up litter on motorways or clearing drug dens of needles. Community service can be about performing services for the elderly or getting involved in youth projects or local community projects which might be ideal work for a 10yo (obviously project dependant). I think Community service would be the IDEAL punishment as it would deprive them of their leisure time and force them to behave responsibly - I can't think of a more apt type of recompense for their actions. Although perhaps not a year - a time period more appropriate to their age and the severity of their actions. Perhaps if these children had something more purposeful to do with their time they might not have time for prank calls...
witch Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) I think you are overreacting a bit - any intelligent 10 year old, when it is explained what they had done - would understand the seriousness of it - but at the time they just do stuff like this. They dont have any natural 'hang on a minute'-type feelings - they think it is funny and they just do it. Even more so if they are male (having had both boys and girls, I can say that boys are more likely to laugh at stuff that girls dont - they are short on empathy it seems and this applies to young men as well - so this is unusual as it is girls) 10 year olds dont look ahead to consequences and they wouldnt understand, until told, what they had started. So yes, they do need to have it explained and then they need some sort of punishment. As for having something more purposeful to do? It's the school holidays - are children to be made to do things every minute of the day? Most children will carry out practical jokes but I dont think they really knew what they had done. I do think that children have been a bit de-sensitised by the things they have seen in films though which might make them more likely to use these sort of images Edited August 1, 2012 by witch
Robz Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 two 10 year old girls thinking prank calling 99 is funny.... part of me hopes that when they need 999 someone is busy wasting the police's time and no1 can help them....however that is mean so I think community service would be more ideal as punishment for their crime, I wouldn't jump to blaming parents straight away as kids can be kids. As to how it wasn't traced I understand that the call was made on a mobile with only an emergency signal which bounces the call to and from the most available mast and it takes time to identify the number and thus the location.
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