Head asked to block mobile phone signals in school...

[NDW]

I think mobile phone detectors would be the best option, at least then the students actually get caught and can be reprimanded. showing that you are looking for people with phones in school. not just for people using them in lessons

[JJonas]

When I looked into mobile phone detectors a couple of years ago, they would only detect a phone while it was communicating with its mast, which only happens every now and again or while a call is being made.

In addition to this they would only tell you that there was a phone switched on in range of the detector they could not tell you the location of the phone.

 

anybody know if this has changed?

[Garacesh]

The thing is, parents now insist on their children having mobile phones on their person, 'in case of emergency'. Also, in today's age of smartphones, a lot of mobiles are communicating without the conscious action of their owner. Things like facebook checking for new messages/posts/tags/etc, apps checking for upgrades, heck even the operating system checking for newer versions, or Android querying any new mail in your Google inbox.

 

Will you be able to differentiate between behind-the-scenes, uncontrollable activity and user-initiated activity? Or are you just going to enforce an 'All phones must be switched off at all times' rule, in which case you'll get "Well what if I need to get a hold of my son/daughter!?" (because apparently phoning the school office and asking for them just isn't good enough.)

Edited May 15, 2012 by Garacesh

[localzuk]

The thing is, parents now insist on their children having mobile phones on their person, 'in case of emergency'. Also, in today's age of smartphones, a lot of mobiles are communicating without the conscious action of their owner. Things like facebook checking for new messages/posts/tags/etc, apps checking for upgrades, heck even the operating system checking for newer versions, or Android querying any new mail in your Google inbox.

 

Will you be able to differentiate between behind-the-scenes, uncontrollable activity and user-initiated activity? Or are you just going to enforce an 'All phones must be switched off at all times' rule, in which case you'll get "Well what if I need to get a hold of my son/daughter!?" (because apparently phoning the school office and asking for them just isn't good enough.)

 

The argument from parents is 100% irrelevant. If a parent needs to contact their child during the day, they must use the school reception to pass a message on. It is not for them to decide to disrupt their child's day. During a school day, the child is under the care of the school, not the parent.

[Michael]

I really don't see this is possible and the costs to try and prevent it are going to be huge. Even then, it won't be water tight and it would create problems for staff and your WLAN.

[jamesfed]

The argument from parents is 100% irrelevant. If a parent needs to contact their child during the day, they must use the school reception to pass a message on. It is not for them to decide to disrupt their child's day. During a school day, the child is under the care of the school, not the parent.

 

Lets remember - parents choose (to a reasonable degree) which schools their children go do...lets say you have two practically identical schools X and Y, only thing is Y blocks mobile phone signal - which school will the parent send their student to?

 

Above all else we should look at students and parents being the schools customers - and although restricting things like internet access is a accepted fact of life mobile phone signal blocking paint/ect isnt....

 

NB – not an excuse to talk about LEA student placement/catchment areas ect

[localzuk]

Lets remember - parents choose (to a reasonable degree) which schools their children go do...lets say you have two practically identical schools X and Y, only thing is Y blocks mobile phone signal - which school will the parent send their student to?

 

Above all else we should look at students and parents being the schools customers - and although restricting things like internet access is a accepted fact of life mobile phone signal blocking paint/ect isnt....

 

NB – not an excuse to talk about LEA student placement/catchment areas ect

 

Supposedly a lot of local schools are looking into it at the same time...

[elsiegee40]

As a school governor, I would be challenging the school to demonstrate that this 'solution' would be of best value to the school... mostly to its students.

 

I like your word supposedly. Realistically, everyone is going to come up with the same answer. It's too expensive to do legally.

[Garacesh]

The argument from parents is 100% irrelevant. If a parent needs to contact their child during the day, they must use the school reception to pass a message on. It is not for them to decide to disrupt their child's day. During a school day, the child is under the care of the school, not the parent.

You have nothing less than my full agreement, however, just because you're right doesn't mean they're not going to complain about it.

[elsiegee40]

@localzuk, I was just thinking of our tour round @Soulfish 's school... even in a custom build palace like that one with evrything possible built in, they didn't resort to this to control the discipline!

[Sirbendy]

@localzuk, I was just thinking of our tour round @Soulfish 's school... even in a custom build palace like that one with evrything possible built in, they didn't resort to this to control the discipline!

 

Is that the new one, not long built? How is he anyways?! Haven't heard from him since we met here, when he came to see the kit we were setting up for them..heh..

[localzuk]

Well, I've spoken to Ofcom about it and the response is - it is illegal as it would interfere with legal services.

[DrCheese]

Just get a new building built like us They put so much metal in the walls my full 3g signal collapses the second I walk into it.

 

We had to get more powerful licensed radios in order to keep in touch & put a lot more wifi points in the block to get any decent throughput from them. Annoying

[strawberry]

Tell the school they need to use special paint from localzuk Paint Co. When the paint arrives make sure the motto is shown on the front "why the heck are you asking the IT dude when this is a site problem or should be dealt with by the LA!."

[tumbleweed]

And would we paint over all the windows...?

[Arthur]

If there was a simple, legal, cheap solution, every school (and prison) in the country would be doing it.

RF and GSM spectrum analysers aren't too expensive and would be perfectly legal.

 

http://i.imgur.com/cg566.jpg

 

If you stuck a picocell or femtocell in the room would you be able to see if there are any mobiles phones nearby (even if they aren't associated with it)?

Edited May 15, 2012 by Arthur

[localzuk]

If you stuck a picocell or femtocell in the room would you be able to see if there are any mobiles phones nearby (even if they aren't associated with it)?

 

In order to operate one of them, they must be licensed. Companies like Vodafone have a license for theirs.

 

I don't know how mobile phone systems work - why would a cell know who was nearby if they weren't associated with it?

[Ketlane]

A bit tongue in cheek here - but if the school makes the use of mobiles compulsory in lessons, they'd suddenly be very unappealing, and maybe even "accidentally" left at home?

[Arthur]

why would a cell know who was nearby if they weren't associated with it?

I can't seem to find it now, but I remember reading a research paper and/or slides from DefCon which explained the process. The following links might give you a basic overview...

 

www.tombom.co.uk/blog/?p=262

www-users.cs.umn.edu/~foo/research/docs/fookune_ndss_gsm.pdf (via)

[sted]

In order to operate one of them, they must be licensed. Companies like Vodafone have a license for theirs.

 

I don't know how mobile phone systems work - why would a cell know who was nearby if they weren't associated with it?

 

presumably the phone would go ooh a closer network point lets try and authenticate . . . damn im not allowed on that wheres the next closest cell

[enjay]

When I looked into mobile phone detectors a couple of years ago, they would only detect a phone while it was communicating with its mast, which only happens every now and again or while a call is being made.

Not true. When my dad was in hospital a while back, there were detectors at the main entrance which would scream if you had a phone on, regardless of what it was doing (and this was pre-smartphones).

 

Detectors would, of course, rely on the phone being turned on so unless you put one in every classroom, they wouldn't stop people turning them on and off as needed.

 

In addition to this they would only tell you that there was a phone switched on in range of the detector they could not tell you the location of the phone.

Certainly true.

[localzuk]

presumably the phone would go ooh a closer network point lets try and authenticate . . . damn im not allowed on that wheres the next closest cell

 

In which case, that would be illegal interception of communications and possibly interference as well as it wouldn't be a legitimate cell operating on that frequency.

[Airwatcher]

We have managed 3G data disabling on the following devices

Samsung SAFE (V2+)

LG (V1.0+)