Cut school leaving age to 14

[Earthling]

National service would be just that but with a twist, those students who were destined to be part of the unemployed (Have no prospects of employment or qualifications) would be given up to 2 years National Service just like they do in other countries. They would be part of a new incentive which would give them not only discipline but other good values whilst earning an apprenticeship wage over the 2 years. As part of this National Service they would be taught and worked in a variety of fields around the country doing work which would add to the economy and also help people of all ages. (Cannot be too specific as it would fill the page but you get the picture).

 

This would benefit them as well as the country and if they so desired they could sign up for extended years learning more within the armed forces and earning more. We would not have a shortfall of recruits when losing experienced staff in the forces (Don't like to use the word retirement as I feel all people are useful)

 

As for those young people who could and will fill the normal apprenticeship roles within industry they would be strive to make the grade both in qualifications and experience for they too would come under scrutiny if they failed to meet the requirements and would find themselves being drawn into the National Service scheme.

 

I would say over the years the number of young people who are ending up on our streets doing nothing with their lives but causing pain and suffering to others through their blatant disrespect for others and costing this country more than it would if thes measures were put into place.

 

 

But you still haven't said how you'll pay them all. Or how they're different from other 'artifically created jobs'. If they're going to be apprenticed, why don't we spend that money on proper apprenticeship schemes (like the old defunct Industrial Training Boards) that would benefit the infrastructure.

 

Going home time.......to be continued, I'm sure.

[LosOjos]

I completely agree.

 

My dad was a mechanic by trade and left school at 14 to start an apprenticeship. He had reached a very good wage by 18 and he is 60 in a month - Have we gone full circle now then in under 50 years? The problem with his family was that he didn't have a choice and had to go out to work to put money on the table. Considering how some parents are now, would this really be a good idea - no thought for the child just more money on the table and a contribution to the house finances because their parents are on a low wage if any wage at all?

 

 

Chris

 

I don't think it's all bad - yeah, you would get some parents abusing the situation but that's going to happen one way or another anyway if they're those kinds of people. Some kids just aren't academic - plain and simple. It doesn't mean they're horrible wastes of space, but they're never going to do well at school so why not let them learn their trade early so they can start contributing?

 

I know my previous posts on this topic have been focused on getting the wasters doing something with their lives, but that's not the only side to it.

 

[bTW: I'm not saying your Dad wasn't academic, just continuing your example!]

[witch]

I am not a "Drill Sergeant" but have been on the end of one and this did give me the chance to excel in value's and then mature and gain valuable qualifications which have led me to be gainfully employed throughout my working life in positions were I can use my expertise and experience.

 

I have not complained about the hard times and definitely not sat on my ar**e and lingered waiting for some kind person to give me what I wanted but worked very hard, 18 hour shifts, 7 days per week with no days off except for holidays and sickness(14 sickness working days in 35 years).

 

I too could have been one of the many who left school with nothing as I didn't take to school well but through good hard slog which sometimes seemed endless I made something of my life without taking from others.

 

So, you attribute your success 'just' to have been in front of a drill sergeant do you? I don't think so. Some people have got natural drive, some get it later in life (like you, apparently - if you didnt do well at school - did you muck about and spoil it for others??)

The forces, or National Service or whatever you want to call it might very well help some, but some people are just not the type - like me for example - if you had put me in that sort of situation at 16, I would probably still be in jail!

We need to give these kids something to do - I dispute that there ARE that many jobs around for the unskilled - at least not round here. Certainly not jobs with any sort of future. In years gone by these kids would have gone into manufacturing and whilst the huge manufacturing base no longer exists, The UK is still one of the leading manufacturiing nations,(6th in the world) hard though it is to believe and so with a proper set of apprenticeshilps put in place, many of these children could be helped. Also, the country needs to pay more attention to the schools where the whole ethos has been turned around and the children have changed their attitude and gone on to better things.

But overloading our forces with people who don't want to be there (and I remember my dad's stories of National Service!) is not the answer.

[pshuttle]

So, you attribute your success 'just' to have been in front of a drill sergeant do you?

 

Mostly, yes.

[webman]

But overloading our forces with people who don't want to be there (and I remember my dad's stories of National Service!) is not the answer.

 

But we can seemingly do the same to colleges/6th forms, and that's OK...?

[mthomas08]

I had natural drive which appeared when I was in my final year of school @15, when it was time to leave I knew it was my life and my decisions that would result on where I was going. I went straight in to further education as a business administrator - I had no idea what I wanted to do but that course would present many things and give me basic skills like confidence/experience and dealing with new people etc.

 

After I passed that I went to a IT Course for 2 years then full time employment, even when I was year 13 I had a part time job doing manual labour work from 5-midnight. The NVQ courses I was doing were 9-4:30 mon-fri, so doing a hard working week didnt bother me.

 

At the age of 14 I was still a kid and didnt consider anything to do with my future and I personally think that this day and age our kids are broken because they are not allowed to be kids. They are pushed to grow up far too fast, our kids here are nothing like my year at their age, at 14 I was a kid and didnt at all have a taste of choices till my GCSE course choices and even then I had no clue.

 

As for my success, I just started to work hard and refused to be a benefit person who takes hand outs all my life. IT wasnt my main choice but it was the easiest choice at the time. I would rather work all day then sit at home watching TV claiming money living in a council house - I want the nice car, nice house, kids who get what they deserve, wear nice clothes.

Edited October 4, 2011 by mthomas08

[witch]

But we can seemingly do the same to colleges/6th forms, and that's OK...?

I don't think I said that children should stay on at school, did I?

What I did say was that things need to be set up for children to get into apprenticeships etc. I also cited the case of my local school which has 6th form opportunities to appeal to a large cross-section of 16 year olds

[webman]

I don't think I said that children should stay on at school, did I?

 

No, and I didn't imply you said that at all We (as a collective, as a country) are doing that in raising the school leaving age.

 

I don't have all the answers, and don't pretend to. But I believe there should be opportunities at 16 to suit a range of skills, abilities and aspirations - but simply "doing nothing" should not be an option and should not be encouraged or allowed - we can't support it!

[TechMonkey]

Funnily enough I heard this idea about 15 years ago in a piece by Harry Enfield. I'm sure to him it was a throwaway statement in an interview but the idea was everyone has education credits. At 14 you go out & join an apprenticeship or start working or carry on. Those that went out to work have the opportunity to come back and use their credits once they know where they are heading or have something they want to learn about. That way those left in school are the academic ones or the ones that know where they want to go & can get on with it, without the distractions of those that don't want to learn. Those that head out start earning, paying tax & learning a skill, which they can build upon later with proper education that they want to learn as it will help in their chosen path. It really stuck with me & I've often thought about if it could actually work.

 

Saying a 14 year old couldn't go out to work as they don't know what they want can be turned around and ask why are forcing kids to choose GCSE's when they don't know what they want to do. I remember mates in my class that would have chewed their own arm off to head out at 14/15 to do plumbing, electrician work or mechanics rather than be at school having stuff they could see no relevance of being forced at them.

 

As for National Service, I think it shouldn't be army based, maybe run on similar lines but an apprenticeship in it's own right. Learning skills, maybe getting a chance to try out lots of different types of work, all the while learning discipline, working as a team & how to survive. Get the kids out of their comfort zone and their own little bubble and show them what else is out there & possibilities.

 

I think the leaving at 14 could work if opportunities are available (maybe make that the choice you have to stay unless you have an alternative) and the option of coming back into education is available.

[bossman]

But you still haven't said how you'll pay them all. Or how they're different from other 'artifically created jobs'. If they're going to be apprenticed, why don't we spend that money on proper apprenticeship schemes (like the old defunct Industrial Training Boards) that would benefit the infrastructure.

 

I have had an ingenious thought prompted by yourself, we will tax the ex-pats to pay for the scheme and as for the difference between artificially created jobs and this scheme would be the clientèle, unlike apprenticeships which would require students to achieve qualifications within the school framework the National Service scheme would only require the exact opposite from the student.

 

Only a small percentage of students would fulfil this criteria as the rest would have the incentive to achieve even at the basic apprenticeship level.

 

It is not "The solution" but just one solution that could be looked at, young people have to be made aware that they themselves are masters of their own destiny until they are no longer respectful of the system and that if they are not going to be responsible for their actions then someone else will be.

 

I know to some people this seems a harsh tactic but sometimes one has to be cruel to be kind in a caring way, we all try to bring our children up in the correct manner and I myself (speaking from experience) know only too well how difficult this can be but when children reach a certain age and they become a difficulty to society then they have to pay for the consequences of their actions by whatever means they can.

 

Ohh! I'm a nasty person me

[X-13]

But what DOES work? I have seen time and time again that asking Naughty Johnny to "make the right choice" doesn't work either.

 

You're obviously giving the wrong choices.

 

 

I find "Either behave or get fed to the Kraken, it's your choice" works pretty well.

[speckytecky]

Why oh why is it the powers that be are ALWAYS tinkering with this very important stage of life. Surely by now it should have all been sorted out and the best models universally adopted. Goodness knows the Politicians etc., spend enough time on jollies looking at what works in other countries. Crikey if it was a stable system everyone would know where they stood and money could be saved - perhaps enough money to bring the University fees down to a sensible level?

[sted]

as to paying for "aqrtificial jobs" sureley its better to use money from dole etc payments getting people to do SOMETHING is better than spending the same money for 0 output. So surely its better to subsidise industry and get something out of it than just throw money at people for doing nowt?

 

I know when i was unemployed after geting my degree i lost all motivation after a while applied for countless jobs got nothing and after a while it does become hard to keep doing it.

 

as to leaving school at 16 the problem is we have a 1 size fits none solution in hindsight i probably would of been better server getting a job straight from school than doing any fe/he/degree and the current trend does seem to be everybody needs a degree (which is silly any qualification is only really any use if few people have them if everyone can get one it proves nothing which is why i dont get why am f grade gcse is a pass )