Cut school leaving age to 14

[JJonas]

What are your views on this?

 

BBC News - Cut school leaving age to 14, says Sir Chris Woodhead

[laserblazer]

I agree in principle, so long as an active plan is put in place for them to learn a trade.

[Jamman960]

I'm not so sure... isn't 14 a little too early? most kids don't know what they want to do at 16 let alone 14.

 

If they can be forced into college to learn a trade and still get limited exposure to maths and english then it may work, it can't be seen as an easy way out though. I can't see work placements working - very few people would be willing to spend their time training a 14 year old along with all the issues that generally go with that age.

Edited October 3, 2011 by Jamman960

[LeMarchand]

Seems in line (along with the university fees debacle) with the ongoing trend of creating a less well educated population = less likely to see the way they are being treated + less likely to be able to voice their concerns.

 

I also suspect that Mr Woodhead's company already has plans in place for supplying these "vocational training" much like NHS reformer Andrew Lansley's wife runs a firm advising private health companies...

[tommej]

Let them quit school at 14 and play xbox all day.. brilliant idea!

[bossman]

I agree in principal with those students that have a basic understanding of literacy and numeracy leaving school but not at 14 maybe 16 and then only if they have an apprenticeship or something similar to enter into otherwise it should be conscription into the armed forces for at least 2 years (National service) as other countries have to keep youth off the streets and out of bad behaviour.

 

We in this country have let standards slide and made too many excuses for those students who's parents have given up responsibility for them, this in turn leads to a disgruntled youth who basically has no aspirations and they are just left to meander through life without a purpose until the bad element of life gets a grip and takes over their life.

 

Where does all this lead, prison for most or even face down in the gutter dead.......................Everyday this culture is getting worse and we as responsible adults must take responsibility for our youth not just blame the government..............it is a parental thing and the sooner people are made to understand this the better.

 

We need to start taking those parents who shirk responsibility to task and make them sit up and take notice by educating and in some hardened cases taking legal action.

 

We are too soft on those people who flout the law and constantly make excuses for those illiterate and basically ignorant people in our society, ignorance is not bliss it is an excuse for being lazy and not giving a damn about nobody else but themselves, time to wake up and smell the coffee

[unixman]

You don't need a degee to work in IT either - Don't bother with that degree, say IT pros ? The Register

I wish I had known that 35 years ago!

[LosOjos]

You don't need a degee to work in IT either - Don't bother with that degree, say IT pros ? The Register

I wish I had known that 35 years ago!

 

What that article fails to mention is that getting employers to take notice of your CV if you don't have a degree is incredibly difficult! I'm talking at the levels of becoming a software designer here, without sounding cocky I'm pretty sure I could match the talents of any freshly qualified student in terms of programming, yet I can't get my foot in the door because I don't have the paper to back it up (I will have in a few years though...)

 

Back on topic:

Ridiculous idea! Kids are dropping out of school aged 16 and doing nothing with their lives now, how will allowing them to drop out sooner improve matters? All it will achieve will be to breed even more tax burdens.

 

Unless a system is put in place as others have said whereby those who clearly aren't going to come out of school with their 5 A*-C are taken off to college to learn a manual trade so that they can still contribute to our society, all this will do is amplify an already dire situation.

 

My personal opinion (and it's hard line, I admit!) is that if they aren't doing well at school, pack them off to college at 14 to learn a trade. If by 18 they're still showing no sign of wanting to contribute to our society, pack them off to the army. We as a country have to stop molly coddling these wasters!

[LeMarchand]

P.S. Isn't the school leaving age 16?

[LosOjos]

P.S. Isn't the school leaving age 16?

 

It still is for some students, but next year (or is it the year after?) compulsory education is until you're 18

[Jamman960]

I think once you reach 16 you should have the choice of going off to work or carry on at school/college. I enjoyed college because I wanted to be there and was more or less surrounded by people that also wanted to be there and learn, there were a few people who were only there to collect the EMA money each week along with the bonus for being there enough - I really feel sorry for anyone who actually wants to go into further education but ends up being surrounded by these dropouts who really don't want to be there.

[tommej]

What that article fails to mention is that getting employers to take notice of your CV if you don't have a degree is incredibly difficult! I'm talking at the levels of becoming a software designer here, without sounding cocky I'm pretty sure I could match the talents of any freshly qualified student in terms of programming, yet I can't get my foot in the door because I don't have the paper to back it up (I will have in a few years though...)

 

Back on topic:

Ridiculous idea! Kids are dropping out of school aged 16 and doing nothing with their lives now, how will allowing them to drop out sooner improve matters? All it will achieve will be to breed even more tax burdens.

 

Unless a system is put in place as others have said whereby those who clearly aren't going to come out of school with their 5 A*-C are taken off to college to learn a manual trade so that they can still contribute to our society, all this will do is amplify an already dire situation.

 

My personal opinion (and it's hard line, I admit!) is that if they aren't doing well at school, pack them off to college at 14 to learn a trade. If by 18 they're still showing no sign of wanting to contribute to our society, pack them off to the army. We as a country have to stop molly coddling these wasters!

 

Alternatively we could stop trying to force kids through a "one size fits all" education, it doesn't work!

[LosOjos]

Alternatively we could stop trying to force kids through a "one size fits all" education, it doesn't work!

 

Think that's the point I was making

 

Fair enough, not everybody is academic - give those kids the choice to learn a trade instead. If they don't want to do either - well they're most likely never going to amount to anything! Send them to the army to get straightened out, instil some discipline in them and then they might actually do something with their lives.

[Guest Guest]

I think once you reach 16 you should have the choice of going off to work or carry on at school/college. I enjoyed college because I wanted to be there and was more or less surrounded by people that also wanted to be there and learn, there were a few people who were only there to collect the EMA money each week along with the bonus for being there enough - I really feel sorry for anyone who actually wants to go into further education but ends up being surrounded by these dropouts who really don't want to be there.

 

 

Can anyone seriously say there is any benifit of forcing a kid to carry on with acidemic education when they neither want or are capable of being there? imo they are only going to doss it off and will only help them down the path of believing that lilfe is about being lazy and taking handouts.

 

Out of my friends the most successful of us are the ones who finished school and went straight into an apprentiship etc. The majority of the ones who went on to do degrees are earning less than the ones who have worked their way up the ladder and they also have student loans to pay (which for the future kids is going to get worse). Never mind the fact that while everyone was in education house prices rocketted pricing them out while people who went out and got a minimum wage job in a factory now own houses worth £200k.... but thats another story

 

It annoys me the attitude of "everyone should be educated to degree standard". Why? For a start not everyone is capible of it, and secondly even if they were not everyone can have that type of job, someone has to be a plumber, a secutary, a bin man... So why not let the kids who have zero interest in acidemic subjects out into trade apprentiship schemes?

Edited October 3, 2011 by Guest

[sonofsanta]

I'm inclined to support it, in all honesty. Whilst personally I'm very academic (which can also be read as Useless At Real Life) I've worked at a school where very few were. Fortunately for them, there was a recently built (and fantastic) vocational block, including a car garage, brick laying area etc... so for those who aren't academic, vocational training is essential. Most of those who drop out and truant, where family issues aren't the cause, are those who struggle with the single-track education system and are left disillusioned by being forced into Maths they have no need for.

 

It's not a perfect idea, by any means, and needs polishing - and as others have said, what 14 year old knows what they want to do with their life? I'm 26 and I don't have a clue - but the intention is, surprisingly, a good one. I'd say - drop the SATs, do GCSEs in Year 9 & 10, then the option of streaming into Vocational Training (at a college) or Academic Training (AS Levels at a school). The first year of the vocational training should be a foundation year - a bit of electrics, bit of plumbing, bit of car mechanics etc. alongside a basic practical Maths & English course - i.e. this is how you invoice, work out VAT, do your tax returns, write a job advert etc. After the first year, let them specialise for the next two years and come out with a decent qualification in a trade. Or, after that first year, let em join the forces if they want.

[bossman]

As I have not mentioned in my post earlier, the reason for the government having to apply this stop til your 18 years old legislation is that other third world countries are upstaging us on the education front at every turn and thus we are finding it very hard to compete in a world market.

 

Yes we need plumbers, electricians etc but what happens is that they still need to have qualifications and be able to follow Health and safety regulations etc so what happens to those students who just want to turn up and not do anything to gain these?

 

Plus we as a country are always moaning about other foreigners pinching our jobs, yes they will and they will keep on doing it while they have better skills and qualifications and charge less for the job they do, how many times I have been quoted astronomical prices for work to be undertaken when along comes another company who's workforce are better educated and qualified and charge me less, I say to all students and people out there who think that they can sit on their backsides once they have gained employment to think again, this world has changed and will keep on changing and those who are not prepared to change with it will fall by the wayside as is already the case.

 

We are way too soft on those people not willing to apply themselves and aspire to look after themselves but wait to receive handouts like their parents did and before anyone turns to me and states that there has to be a safety net for those people genuinely out of work then I say yes but how many are genuine cases.

 

People who are self employed but are not declaring what they earn and then drawing on the state benefits these people are just like those huge corporations who avoid taxes they are the scum of the earth and if I come across any knowledge of either then I will not hesitate to inform the authorities.

 

Everyone should do this to get the message across to those people who feel they can cheat the system.

 

Sorry for the rant but this is something I am really passionate about.

[witch]

I think 14 is too young to know what you want to do - but at 16 children should certainly have the chance to move away from mainstream school and do something more suited to their talents - IF and it is a big IF, there is something for them to do. Our local comp has it all pretty much sorted - the 6th form consists of children who are academically inclined, many of whom go off to uni when they are done, and other children who are doing useful BTEC type qualifications in catering, building, boatbuilding and the like.

It's all very well to say 'make them do national service' but whilst it might teach them some discipline, there still won't be any jobs when they come out. Likewise sending them into the Army itself isnt a good idea - no armed force wants to be full of youngsters who dont want to be there and who wont obey the rules if they are forced to go.

[synaesthesia]

14 is far too young and will almost certainly lead to an increase of young people who don't yet have plans or aspirations either making the wrong decision or using it as an excuse to quit and waste their life entirely. I think it's a ridiculous idea, however one that could perhaps be "altered" in certain ways. How about at the age of 14, giving the option of continuing education (state/private) or enlisting into the Army to be taught by them, increasing discipline and strenghtening our faltering forces. It's not as harsh as the old days of enforced enscription but gives them a little choice - one that may help some of our discipline based issues.

 

It's a shame really as there are indeed plenty of 14 year olds who are more than aware of what they want to do and are mature beyond their years. It isn't the case on the majority, though.

[Earthling]

 

People who are self employed but are not declaring what they earn and then drawing on the state benefits these people are just like those huge corporations who avoid taxes they are the scum of the earth and if I come across any knowledge of either then I will not hesitate to inform the authorities.

 

Everyone should do this to get the message across to those people who feel they can cheat the system.

 

QUOTE]

 

Just out of interest.....how many huge corporations have you informed on for not paying their proper share of taxes?

 

Just asking.

[bossman]

It's all very well to say 'make them do national service' but whilst it might teach them some discipline, there still won't be any jobs when they come out. Likewise sending them into the Army itself isnt a good idea - no armed force wants to be full of youngsters who dont want to be there and who wont obey the rules if they are forced to go.

 

Just as I have mentioned in my previous posts, we as a nation have become too soft with our young people and because of this each generation has become more and more needy, we as a country cannot carry on like this and we also cannot make excuses for those that are not willing to co-operate, those students not prepared to aspire both academically or vocationally would be conscripted and they would not have a choice in the matter and if they think they would be able to buck the armed service discipline and refuse to co-operate would not find a compassionate person with whom they could turn to to find them an excuse not to do what is required of them.

 

Not only would they learn discipline but comradeship and communication plus other life skills which quite a lot of our young people lack today. I blame parents for giving them too much and young people becoming ever more reliant on handouts from parents who feel that they are doing the right thing but in actual fact they are slowly denying their offspring the capacity to fend for themselves and so they will not learn from there experiences and therefore will not put anything back in to society.

 

"Spare the rod and spoil the child" an apt saying but I don't mean literally but we as parents must take on some of the responsibility for some of the characteristics of our youth.

 

I admire most of our young people very much and deal with them every day in school but you can see those students who's parents don't give them the start in life they need.

[witch]

... those students not prepared to aspire both academically or vocationally would be conscripted and they would not have a choice in the matter and if they think they would be able to buck the armed service discipline and refuse to co-operate would not find a compassionate person with whom they could turn to to find them an excuse not to do what is required of them.

Sounds like institutionalised bullying to me

[Earthling]

I don't know.......for years we've been raising the school-leaving age, preventing kids leaving an education system which is out-of-date, broken and not fit for purpose anymore.

 

Now, someone (probably with a vested interest) wants to lower it again for certain kids.

 

Why don't we start again with the whole shooting match? Invest PROPERLY in education, stop using it as a political football, redesign the system from the bottom up. Then perhaps, we might start producing a work-force that someone wants.

 

One of the most chilling things I realised when I started here, was the number of year 7's who are admitted with Literacy skills of 7 - 9 years and lower, in some cases.

 

I despair of this country, at times, I really do.

 

You guys can sort this lot out, I'm retiring soon.......abroad.

 

[Earthling]

Sounds like institutionalised bullying to me

 

+1 .... in a way.

 

I'm not really sure the Army would want to take the ones who are 'not prepared to aspire both academically or vocationally ', and I'm not sure I'd want them guarding the wall for me, either. I don't know much about military hardware, but I do know it gets more sophisticated as technology advances.

 

Personally, I'd rather have an army of regulars that knows how to work it's equipment, not an army of conscripts that can't read, can hardly write and can't express themselves verbally, either.

 

But hey, what do I know?

[teejay]

I don't know.......for years we've been raising the school-leaving age, preventing kids leaving an education system which is out-of-date, broken and not fit for purpose anymore.

 

Now, someone (probably with a vested interest) wants to lower it again for certain kids.

 

Why don't we start again with the whole shooting match? Invest PROPERLY in education, stop using it as a political football, redesign the system from the bottom up. Then perhaps, we might start producing a work-force that someone wants.

 

One of the most chilling things I realised when I started here, was the number of year 7's who are admitted with Literacy skills of 7 - 9 years and lower, in some cases.

 

I despair of this country, at times, I really do.

 

You guys can sort this lot out, I'm retiring soon.......abroad.

 

 

Completely agree on the reading age problem, it is the number 1 problem that needs addressing as quickly as possible at as young an age as possible. Also there is a need to inspire a love of reading for pleasure, which then instills an imagination and an ability to self learn.

[synaesthesia]

I don't know.......for years we've been raising the school-leaving age, preventing kids leaving an education system which is out-of-date, broken and not fit for purpose anymore.

 

Now, someone (probably with a vested interest) wants to lower it again for certain kids.

 

Why don't we start again with the whole shooting match? Invest PROPERLY in education, stop using it as a political football, redesign the system from the bottom up. Then perhaps, we might start producing a work-force that someone wants.

 

One of the most chilling things I realised when I started here, was the number of year 7's who are admitted with Literacy skills of 7 - 9 years and lower, in some cases.

 

I despair of this country, at times, I really do.

 

You guys can sort this lot out, I'm retiring soon.......abroad.

 

 

Quite a good post IMO - you look at the level of fluency in English that most Europeans have, then look at our levels of fluency in German/French...