Promethean Whiteboards? Necessary evil or a necessary evil?

[Mungo]

Just a line about the sharp increase in work our engineers have had to pick up because of the inadequacies of the above company.

 

Also poor quality installation work, inappropriate projectors for the job etc etc.

 

It cant just be me, has anyone else got a story?

[Diello]

Well I'm certainly not impressed with them - my techs here seem to like them - but getting through to their tech support, an necessity with them, well... camel through an eye of a needle and all that.

[Geoff]

Up here in Lancashire there is a county run scheme to install Whiteboards. The installers they chose to use leaves somewhat to be desired. They are a local company. I've had missing cables, badly mounted projectors (mostly the wrong distance) and shoddy junction boxes.

 

I've seen a few promethian installs and generally they seem ok. Although I have had a problem with a couple with the sound system installed alongside (not loud enough).

[ConTheITGuy]

We have 21 Promethean IWBs here. All but two of them have been spot on. Nice installs, and the only time I've had to ring tech support is to order replacement remote controls which went 'missing'.

 

Guess where the afforementioned 'two' were from, Geoff!!

 

Andy.

[MkII]

Wales provided all schools with a couple of Promethean IWBs, and the installation was pretty good really. No problems but then no-body uses them much!

 

We're just getting the Hitachi Educational bundle - £1500 for a 75" + the basic Epson projector - which seems good - replacement lamps are about £100.

[Mungo]

We had an early uptake of them and across the board we have nearly 400. We have had a nightmare with their driver (3rd party rebadge) causing bluescreens and rolling reboots with our currently deployed image. They blamed our image even when we pointed out that the only non-Microsoft certified portion of our image was their driver. They continued to say it was our problem up until they released a driver (not theirs obviously as driver authoring is beyond the skill of a simple value added box shifter)that fixed everything. We still couldnt get an apology.

 

They insist on mounting their Sanyo projectors upside down (thus inverting the lens filter) allowing 40 kinds of crap to drop onto the lens when you clean the filter. It has been know for some Sanyo projectors to be sent off twice in one year for professional cleaning (at £200 a pop).

 

Got Promethean and Sanyo in for a toasting and their answer was that we must be a particularly dirty County and teachers should perhaps be unmounting the projectors before cleaning them. Yeah right....you tell them!

 

They also ask teachers to upgrade the firmware on their whiteboards in order to resolve issues. We've lost a few whiteboards this way, but that is their choice.

 

I do go on but there is no doubt in my mind that they lend a great deal to teaching, hence necessary evil.

[MkII]

hmmmm - interesting - we only had three initially, and it was left too late to clean the filter - the image now has a central red haze which I assume is something burned onto a mirror.

 

Will professional cleaning solve this then/ can it be repaired? Where do you send them??

 

[ours is a Toshiba]

 

[edit] Just had a closer look and as the projector is mounted upside down, the vent below the mirror is of course now above it, and you can see the dust lying on the mirror. I blew that away and my haze went!

[RobC]

We're just getting the Hitachi Educational bundle - £1500 for a 75" + the basic Epson projector - which seems good - replacement lamps are about £100.

 

Mark, would that be the Epson EMP-S1H or the EMP-S3? (Although I think the S3 is only just out...) We've got two of the S1Hs & just received an S3.

 

Given the price of the projectors (£550 & £470 respectively) and the fact we got a spare lamp with each, I can't fault either Epson or Misco who supplied them.

[MkII]

Mark, would that be the Epson EMP-S1H or the EMP-S3? (Although I think the S3 is only just out...) We've got two of the S1Hs & just received an S3.

 

Given the price of the projectors (£550 & £470 respectively) and the fact we got a spare lamp with each, I can't fault either Epson or Misco who supplied them.

 

Yes - it's the S3. That deal also includes a ree lamp - forgot to mention that

[Mungo]

I need to adjust the tone of my thread i think.

 

I dont have a problem with Promethean per se, it was more the fact that the visual element of teaching has lept from a two component solution (dri-wipe board + pen = 0 IT Support) straight to an equation of whiteboard + projecter + PC + amp + speakers + dvd + video + signal splitter + voting buttons + slate = chuffing nightmare from a direct support and training angle. As we all know, if teachers cant teach what they planned to teach then all toys come out of the cot and I dont blame them

 

By complicating that side of the classroom, it means that whiteboards have now escalated in terms of service priority and it seems to me that Promethean were thinking with there pockets first and not really caring about the impact this was going to have. IT is the same all over, once they start relying on it, they cant be without it. Its up to us to manage the fallout.

 

Rant over.

[MkII]

Here no one uses them! We've had the training - baulked at the figures for the voting hardware. So I never touch the stuff hardly. The pens are put away and never see the light of day.

 

I think it's a different story in the primary schools - staff there seems to have embraced it. High school teachers KNOW they know a hell of a lot less than the kids so are scared... [iMHO ]

[tarquel]

You know my thoughts already mark, but for the benefit of others....

 

I'll be brief lol

 

Basically the same as mark - you can count the teachers on one hand that actually use the projectors "interactively". I have no problem with projectors as such - in fact, I'm all for it if you can justfy the bumb replacing costs - but having them interactive is a no-no.

 

The head wanted laptop's to go with them!! And wanted to get IWB + Projector + Laptop + cables (and I presume WiFi Usage in these rooms with the laptop so that would mean a WAP too) X 3!!

 

We have 8-9k and *this* is what we have to do:

 

- Exchange 2k3 Server - H/W and licensing - muggin's installing it.

- Firewall/VPN system - H/W & VPN licensing - Muggings again (plus PCC hand-holding slightly I think)

- Setting up of a little computer room - networking & PC equipment + software = muggings (wiv external company fitting fibre link i hope or moving existing cab 'n' cables)

- Library PC - Software (as mentioned elsewhere) - muggings

- Additional pc's - Hardware & Office licensing - muggi.... you get the idea on that lol

 

or I know, thets have some interactive whiteboards that no one is gonna use interactively lol

 

Point made - rant over

 

Cheers

Nath

[drjturner]

Hi

 

I came accross this forum and was a little disgruntled to find people think we are so bad. I have been dedicated to supporting Promethean customers for 5 years now. Every customer is important and if you have issues please let us now and our support team will do their best to help you.

 

Aidan

 

I am a little confused as to the nature of your issues. We have sorted a solution for the blue screen issue and our outstanding one with dell laptops/desktops will be resolved soon. With regards to any installation issues you should be reporting them to support either by phone or email and we will arrange remedial work. No customer should have to do remedials themselves. Emails will be answered within 4 hours (within the working day).

 

With regards to the projectors being hung upside down. This is due to the nature of the lens. If you put the projector the right way up and in the same position you will a) get the image above the board rather than on it and b) the filters will be covered up and will not be able to be cleaned.

 

If the dust is falling into the projector when cleaning the filters then there must be a large build up of dust and an increase in your filter cleaning regime will be needed. I would probably try 3 weeks rather than a month and if still very dirty 2 weeks or 1 week. This will reduce the amount of dust particals being pulled into the projector through non filtered intakes when the filters are blocked.

 

 

 

Marc

 

If you have called recently you will know we have improved our telephone system and increased staff. Due to the summer holidays and installs we are always busier in September / October and this is why it may seem busy when trying to call.

 

Geoff

 

I think the Promethean boards on the becta scheme in Lancs where supplied by one of our resellers. They supply their own becta face plates, and projector mounts. If you have any issue and it is becta you should be getting a 24 hour fix from them.

 

On a final note we have 3 forms of communication.

 

1, Telephone support: 01254 298521

2, Email: [email protected]

3, Forum: http://www.prometheanworld.com/common/html/vb_forum/index.php?

 

Please do not rant about things that can be resolved with one of the above forms of communication, quickly and easily.

[ninjabeaver]

Hi

 

I came accross this forum and was a little disgruntled to find people think we are so bad. I have been dedicated to supporting Promethean customers for 5 years now. Every customer is important and if you have issues please let us now and our support team will do their best to help you.

 

If the dust is falling into the projector when cleaning the filters then there must be a large build up of dust and an increase in your filter cleaning regime will be needed. I would probably try 3 weeks rather than a month and if still very dirty 2 weeks or 1 week. This will reduce the amount of dust particals being pulled into the projector through non filtered intakes when the filters are blocked.

 

Hmmm, as if we don't have enough on out plate to deal with. Dust in filters is not a massive priority, and cleaning 20 filters twice a month!!! Are you having a laugh. It might seem nice and easy on your side of the fence, but when you have to have two people to even climb a ladder it's a drain on the little time we already have to fix more important issues.

 

If you have called recently you will know we have improved our telephone system and increased staff. Due to the summer holidays and installs we are always busier in September / October and this is why it may seem busy when trying to call.

 

Would people have called back if they have not had a good service in the past??? No they would not. How about an e-mail about the improved phone service and increase in staff. Show your customers you are listening and are trying to resolve the issues with communications.

 

Please do not rant about things that can be resolved with one of the above forms of communication, quickly and easily.

 

Do not come on here and tell us about not ranting!!!

 

This is one of the many major up points about our small community which is rapidly expanding. We are all School ICT Technicians and if you could be bothered to read some of the other posts you would realise why we rant about some and rave about others.

 

You try running a school's ICT needs on £2.5K per year, supplying all ICT Suites with toner, ink and paper for the whole year and still needing money for basics such as CD's, Floppy disks and going cap in hand to ask for more money to repair 5 year old PC's. Toners, Ink and Paper this year alone cost me £2.8k and they were all compatibles!

 

The whole idea of the Bad Experience area on the forum is to give us a heads up on peoples experience with companies. Perhaps this points out a short falling in your company, and maybe something that needs to be looked into

[drjturner]

Simon

 

 

If you have read my public profile you would have noticed I was an ICT Technician with a £1500 budget for the whole school I know excactly what it is like. I used to clean the filters on the projectors as well. Cable the whole school with a box of cat 5 and rj45 ends.

 

This is a forum for eduational IT professionals is it not. I class myself as one so why can we not work together and use all resources necessary for our day to day jobs. I may want to ask someone about one of those strange networks out there that is causing us headaches and I would hope someone would reply.

 

Yes we do support our software on networks we do not turn around and say to customers sorry you will have to sort it yourself, its your network we find a workaround and I thought this a good place to start for future problems. I hope I am right.

 

The same with yourself if you have a problem I have heard of I would help you!!!

[StuartC]

Hmmm, as if we don't have enough on out plate to deal with. Dust in filters is not a massive priority, and cleaning 20 filters twice a month!!! Are you having a laugh. It might seem nice and easy on your side of the fence, but when you have to have two people to even climb a ladder it's a drain on the little time we already have to fix more important issues.

 

Just thought i'd highlight something that was covered, if a projector cost £200 a pop to clean internally, and i was worried about my budget vanishing, i would make my projector filter cleaning regime a little more regimented.

 

as for dust falling inside the projector, either there is too much dust in the filter or there is too much dust on top of the projector. I havent seen dust thick enough to fall back into the projector on any of the projectors here.

 

(you could always blame the kids, all that unneeded skin shedding, they don't think do they, lol )

[ninjabeaver]

I agree, I would love to make it more regimented. Problem's being that

 

1:- You have to get into the class room when no one is in there under Health & Safety.

 

2:- I've got to take down the projector to clean it. This then takes it out of alignment and needs setting up again. This then leads to setting up the Whiteboard again.

 

3:- I need someone to hold the ladder.

 

4:- I need to go and get a ladder.

 

5:- I also have to keep my fingers crossed that no 'Urgent Requests' come in while I'm doing the job.

 

It all boils down to time mate, and that's really at a premium. None of the above jobs are big, but when all put together they add up to a good chunk of time.

 

But a monthly clean should be organised. Thanks. *adds to task list*

[ninjabeaver]

Simon

 

 

If you have read my public profile you would have noticed I was an ICT Technician with a £1500 budget for the whole school I know excactly what it is like. I used to clean the filters on the projectors as well. Cable the whole school with a box of cat 5 and rj45 ends.

 

This is a forum for eduational IT professionals is it not. I class myself as one so why can we not work together and use all resources necessary for our day to day jobs. I may want to ask someone about one of those strange networks out there that is causing us headaches and I would hope someone would reply.

 

Yes we do support our software on networks we do not turn around and say to customers sorry you will have to sort it yourself, its your network we find a workaround and I thought this a good place to start for future problems. I hope I am right.

 

The same with yourself if you have a problem I have heard of I would help you!!!

 

Well, it's good that you where not just passing by and doing a single post never to be heard of again. That's appreciated.

 

Perhaps I could suggest that you put yourself forward as a contact point for Promethian and use this place as a stepping stone to get back into more of the schools on this forum.

 

Give us all some heads up in a seperate post on the new products etc from Promethian and any deals available to the schools.

 

And I apologise for going off on one this morning. :oops:

 

Welcome aboard.

[Bully]

I have had my fair share of bad experiences with this company and their products. I spend around 3-3.5 hours onsite on rota school visits. Before IWB's I just about had enough time to get round and complete the endless list of jobs to do. No we have IWB's to deal with I spend on average 30-60 mins pretty much every time I vist schools fixing IWB problems. Rebooting pc's, updating firmware, cleaning filters, logging support calls, recabling the mess their engineers leave behind. the list goes on. To be fair some of the guys on the helpdesk are very good and some have been particularly bad. There seems to be no standards in their installations, each time i go into schools that have had new installs there is some new contraption to try and figure out. none of their drivers are digitally signed by microsoft. new projectors need cleaning in some cases only a couple of months after the initial install. hourly rates for engineers to come out and do extra work are very overpriced, and you have to pay for their travelling time to site. Promethean have tried to deal with our problems such as rolling reboots on xp clients. they have released a number of fixes (fudges) none of which are concrete fixes and seem to me to be half baked ideas someone has come up with on the fly.

 

can anybody else relate to any of the abouve issues?

 

all in all i think IWB's are a good idea but in practice are an expensive headache. 8O

[StuartC]

they are a piece of technology, which means that things need configuring. You should find that once its set up that it will rarely go wrong (it could do if something changes significantly on the machine, or things arent switched on). Just make sure the teachers know that you are spending time on them and it would be nice if they could learn how to do common tasks (i know, it sounds impossible, but worth a try).

 

basically, they are more complicated than a blackboard, but thats the point. you are just in the position of not getting any benefit from it

[Inox]

Ok, just to add to this thread (going slightly off topic, but it's still IWB's) do any of u use SMART Boards ? Because u all seem to use promethian.

 

I myself prefer the SMART Boards (as they dont use the dreaded pen!), u just use your finger (or the supplied pens to draw on it if u wish).

 

I have only have 1 run-in with promethian tech support, which resulted in them having to come out to have a look at the board. (The 1st time they were going to come out they never show'd up) the 2nd time, they came out n spent ages testing everyting. It turned out in the end to be the cable which was a dodgy install to say the least (I am not sure who installed it, so I am not saying that this dodgy job was promethian!). Basically 2 cables had been used and were joined in the middle to make 1 long cable. This join had come apart. The problem was that I was told it had been put in behind all the science benching as the benching was being fitted and therefore there was no access to it without ripping out all the benching, so i could not test this.

Called promethian which said try this new software 1st (as mine was like 5 generations old by this point).

Tried it, no luck.

Called them again and they said it sounded like it may be the PCB (the bit at the bottom that everything plugs into).

They came out n changed that - no luck.

Tried everything we could think of for about 2 hours and they finally decided to try to take the bench appart as it looked (through fault finding) to be the wire.

Now then, there r screws all the way down the front of the bench. They unscrew'd these and out fell the wire. Simple as that ! It was not behind the bench at all like i'd been told, but hidden in a drilled out valley in the wood behind the fronting of the bench ! Grrrrr!

U could clearly see that the 2 plugs of the cables had come apart - a small tir-wrap fixed this issue!

 

Not the best time i've ever had with an IWB I must say, but they can do wonders for teaching the kids as long as there gone about in the right way.

In secondry schools this is harder than in primary (i've worked in both).

In primary, u can, to a degree get the teachers to help themselves with IWB issues before they call you.

In secondary, you r they 1st point of troubleshooting :-(

[drjturner]

I think this thread "Promethean Whiteboards? Necessary evil or a necessary evil?"

 

 

Should Read "Whiteboards in schools we need more staff" because it is not the fact that it is any particulary manufacturer it just seems that people are having more things to do in the day than they used to. It also means it is yet another thing to go wrong in the classroom, which means screaming teachers if and when it does!!!!

 

 

Regards

 

Dan Turner

Promethean