Petrol Prices

[SpuffMonkey]

I was a bit shocked at the price over on the continent, when I went a few weeks ago - 1.36/l - ouch - I was always used to filling up in France before coming back - not this time.

[Jamo]

I was a bit shocked at the price over on the continent, when I went a few weeks ago - 1.36/l - ouch - I was always used to filling up in France before coming back - not this time.

 

!!!

 

That sucks I was always under the impression they were still cheaper!! Bring on BIO fuels or something! My weekly fuel bill has already gone up nearly 8 quid Tis a lot when you don't earn much

Edited June 15, 2009 by Jamo

[Polski]

Filled up at Morrisons this morning, 47.9ppl what a RIP OFF.

 

It's only 44ppl at Calor in Norwich!

 

Still at least Ipswich's Morrisons have a shiny new pump system and finally have TWO!!

[cookie_monster]

But supply will be able to meet this demand to potentially keep prices in check.

 

Can you explain as far as I know oil companies, governments and independent experts all agree that supply will not meet demand in the not too distant future.

[sidewinder]

there is an argument about ideas such as peak oil, and the finiteness, but those are question for many years down the line....

 

Even if it is going to happen many years down the line, ignoring those difficult decisions like has been done for years on end, is only going to make things worse when it does happen.

 

If we had 15-20 years, thats a realistic timespan to reduce demand dramatically and vastly increase funding and adoption of alternative energy. People would obviously moan and b1tch about it, but it would at least be doable.

But ignoring it till its too late (no-one will know whether its peaked till a few years after) is likely to make things very painful in the future

 

Unfortunately every government elected will always push it under the carpet because they need to go for short term success to stay in power. Reducing energy usage and encouraging conservation to help for the future just isnt something thats going to be popular, so they wont bother.

 

FWIW most of the evidence seems to show the 'easy' oil already has or is close to peaking. There is obviously a lot of oil in the tar sands etc, but refining that is an environmental disaster (and thats putting it lightly)

[apoth0r]

Or maybe that thinking is flawed? It's the thinking that says "I'm not going to change, it's up to someone else to make the technology better". Plenty of us could change our habits, even our homes or workplaces if we wanted to and then we wouldn't even need the technology to improve.

 

Also the fact that the oil companies who have researched the future bio products are keeping everything under wraps because they don't want to lose profit?

I think they live in a different world :S

[sidewinder]

Can you explain as far as I know oil companies, governments and independent experts all agree that supply will not meet demand in the not too distant future.

 

Yeah, same.

 

Demand pretty much consistantly goes up (apart from during recessions, but it usually returns to what it was before). Supply has to follow that, and it obviously cannot do forever.

[Andrew_C]

There is obviously a lot of oil in the tar sands etc, but refining that is an environmental disaster (and thats putting it lightly)

I can't remember the figure, but the Canadians are using HUGE quantities of natural gas to allow them to extract oil from tar-sands. I'm not even sure that it doesn't require more energy to extract than the oil subsequently delivers.

[Batman]

Also the fact that the oil companies who have researched the future bio products are keeping everything under wraps because they don't want to lose profit?

I think they live in a different world :S

 

This was part of the subject matter of my wife's engineering dissertation last year so I consider myself to be reasonably well informed.

 

We do have Biodiesel, which is an accessible biofuel and can be used in standard diesel cars. It has a closed carbon cycle because while the plants that are grown to make the oil are growing they absorb co2, which makes up for the co2 released when the oil is burnt. Biodiesel can be made from waste oil too.

 

However I don't think biofuels are a good answer to the problem because they are not used responsibly. but it's not really helping from an environmental point of view if the plants grown to get the oil are grown in place of food crops, which are needed, or rainforests which we need to protect.

 

We can grow plants for making oil on existing agricultural land in this country but there would not be enough to go round at our present rate of consumption. So I still believe that we need to change our habits.

 

Biodiesel is a feasible useful fuel for joe bloggs on his own to make for himself in his shed using waste oil from the local chippy, something I'm thinking of doing myself, but it's not going to cut the mustard on a larger scale.

 

Hydrogen fuel cell technology looks promising, but it takes energy to get the hydrogen. Still needs perfecting I'm afraid.

 

You're right though, the oil and car companies do hold this stuff quite close to the chest. You used to be able to get an Electric Toyota RAV4 in the states. They mysteriously withdrew them all... which was silly. Electric cars are feasible and more efficient for town driving but the car companies have not been willing to produce them and all we've ended up with is ridiculous jokes like the G-Wiz. The Toyota Prius is, disappointingly, a farce. I think if some of the big car companies were willing to actually promote electric vehicles in the UK there would be a demand for them.

Edited June 15, 2009 by Batman

[sidewinder]

I can't remember the figure, but the Canadians are using HUGE quantities of natural gas to allow them to extract oil from tar-sands. I'm not even sure that it doesn't require more energy to extract than the oil subsequently delivers.

 

Yeah, the energy used in getting the stuff out barely makes it worth it. With the huge oil fields you get like 20:1 ratio I think, would be surprised if its more than 2:1 with the tar sands

 

Plus, an enourmous amount of water needs to be used, plus lakes filled with the toxic byproducts afterwards. Not good

[Guest Guest]

We're addicted to convenient personal transport. Giving this up is a very hard thing to do. I think everyone's waiting for technology to come to the rescue so nothing need change.

 

But the only solution is for "technology to come to the rescue". Where i live the only alternative to a car is the dole que, and this is true for many many people accross the UK.

 

Given that for the most part there is no alternative, I find this whole idea of people are evil because they have to go to work abit tiresome.

[Batman]

But the only solution is for "technology to come to the rescue". Where i live the only alternative to a car is the dole que, and this is true for many many people accross the UK.

 

Given that for the most part there is no alternative, I find this whole idea of people are evil because they have to go to work abit tiresome.

 

You need a car, that's obvious. Nobody can hold that against you. I imagine you must live in a rural area?

 

I live in a very busy town where car journeys are much less necessary and I think on the whole my comments apply to the things I see where I am. As an example, I know people who live in Northampton and commute to Milton Keynes and people who live in Milton Keynes who commute to Northampton. I also know people who drive to work even though it's quicker to walk (if you looked at the roads you'd understand).

 

I speak as someone who used to commute and decided I needed to stop. I was driving 50 miles a day but now I only drive when my wife needs a lift somewhere! It has been an interesting transition but it has saved me so much money and reminded me how much I love walking and cycling.

 

So I agree, it's not feasible for everyone but I think that the are plenty of us who could change if we wanted to enough. I think jinnantonnix would agree with this too?

[dwimorberg]

Batman: Or maybe that thinking is flawed? It's the thinking that says "I'm not going to change, it's up to someone else to make the technology better". Plenty of us could change our habits, even our homes or workplaces if we wanted to and then we wouldn't even need the technology to improve.

 

I don't think that thinking is particularly flawed. Sure I need to change the way I do some things but I already have an economical car (68mpg avg.) and I ONLY use it for driving to work. I do have another car too but that's just for looking nice on a sunny day. The trouble with living in the middle of nowhere is there's no infrastructure for an alternative to using a car. Even if I took the bus or train to work it'd be a 3 mile journey to either station. I think the arguement is that some people could stand to use a car a lot less (those who live close to work or in a town environment with a good bus or train service), but other people don't have an awful lot of choice.

 

Changing lifestyle, upgrading house and car to make them much more energy efficient is a major step in the right direction but even if we're using less energy, it's still a large proportion of fossil fuel that goes into producing that energy. We need something that doesn't pollute, or alternatively go back to a simpler way of living! I can see this type of energy production may be a fair way off yet, but if we rely more and more on technology in our lives then we'll need more power from somewhere which needs to be sustainable and, dare I say the buzzword, green!

 

Hope that doesn't sound too flamey, just putting a point across!

 

So I agree, it's not feasible for everyone but I think that the are plenty of us who could change if we wanted to enough. I think jinnantonnix would agree with this too?

I agree too! It's just getting the people who think "why should I change when noone else will" to do it too. Convenience is the thing here and there're a lot of sacrifices we'll make for it!

Edited June 15, 2009 by dwimorberg

[dwimorberg]

I think it's just weird petrol stations round here

[Polski]

The argument for and against smaller cars is the same here as it is in the good ol' US of A....and frequently heard on the school run.

 

Small cars (or worse still, no car at all) is a dangerous place to be when confronted with a socking great 4x4 / lorry etc being parked by someone stll adjusting their makeup and getting the twins dressed / reading the "Daily Star" or doing their expenses / load manifest at the wheel!

 

Don't flame me, we have all seen them!

 

But people really DO feel they are safer than walking.

 

HELLO!

 

If everyone walked, or had small light-weight plastic bodied electric vehicles, where would the problem be?

 

HGV's? What's wrong with the rail network.

 

Actually I KNOW what's wrong. Thank you Dr. Beeching!

 

Our transport system is a bit like Windows. We need to start again with a blank sheet of paper and not just twiddle with what was there before!

[DrPerceptron]

Any car with a FIA/NASCAR approved rollcage in... they'll take quite a battering before they give.... depends on how you're hit though...

 

Personally, I enjoy going around the corners... rather than through/over/under them...

[torledo]

Can you explain as far as I know oil companies, governments and independent experts all agree that supply will not meet demand in the not too distant future.

 

what's the not too distant future ?

 

Are we going to get 6% annual growth in the global economy year on year any time soon ?

 

Sure, china are/will lead any recovery, and we know about their energy needs.....but what we appear to have seen is demand destruction. the price of crude oil dropping like a stone from last the global financial crisis, now recovering on the back of a hoped for recovery in the global economy plus possible fears over inflation and dollar expectations - not to mention oil price was probably excessively low in march at the time. Where there is something that is oversold there is an opportunity to make a killing.

 

.....even then getting to the price highs of 2008 would require huge increases in demand, coming from where exactly ? Even if the major developed economies stop contracting, growth is likely to be muted. Plus rising oil prices actually impact on the strength and sustainability of a recovery....so a bit of a catch 22 there.

 

So long-term, sure there issues around finite resources, but then long-term there are issues surrounding the supply of all sorts of things ie real estate, with a great deal of scaremongering. Amongst the genuine issues that need to be addressed.

 

Even getting to 95-100 dollars a barrel [still some way off the 2008 highs], would require a big increase in consumption by companies that aren't indicating such an increased level of consumption/demand over the next year or so. Or more expectation of inflation rather than deflation. i think price movements are clearly a story of speculation and expectations, and the movement of capital from one type of asset class to another.

Edited June 15, 2009 by torledo

[Guest Guest]

You need a car, that's obvious. Nobody can hold that against you. I imagine you must live in a rural area?

 

Nope, suburbs of of Stockton/Middlesbrough, in the biggest housing estate in Europe.

 

My point is i cant get to work because of the incompetency of my local council and the nature of privately owned public transport, not by any choice i made myself.

I went to the nearest secondary school, that was 6 miles away. I went to the nearest college, 9 miles away. Until recently the nearest supermarket was 3 miles away. Out of all these places the only one you could get to by bus is the supermarket. For a long time now shopping centers have been situated out of town in retail parks, and you cant get on a bus with anything larger than a shopping bag...

 

These are the type of things which need to change before our attitude can change.

 

 

Personally i think the solution is simple, nuclear power situated where it is needed, with electric or hydrogen cars.

Edited June 15, 2009 by Guest

[Batman]

You say that, but from my point of view 9 miles is nothing on a bicycle, and I think actually it demonstrates what I'm saying; that it's possible but it's being discounted because it's seen as unreasonable. You could do it, so whilst I'm not saying this in an accusatory way, you could make a difference by changing your attitude.

 

We all have to decide for ourselves what's best and what's right so please don't think I'm telling you what to do, it's my opinion and I don't think any less of you if you don't agree with me!

 

Does sound a bit bizarre though, there are loads of primary schools here I don't think anyone lives anything more than a walking distance from one. The secondary school I work at has at least three other secondary schools within three miles of it... they're pretty well dispersed though.

Edited June 15, 2009 by Batman

[Andrew_C]

You say that, but from my point of view 9 miles is nothing on a bicycle,

On a nice day, in daylight, no wind, with little heavy shopping, nice roads, no kids to pick up... You get the point.

 

I used to cycle 12 miles or so to work through the summer and early autumn terms, but I had to move somewhere cheaper. Similar distance to travel, but the route is now such that I don't do it any more. Also taking child to 6th form, so we are now 2 in a car.

[Guest Guest]

Does sound a bit bizarre though, there are loads of primary schools here I don't think anyone lives anything more than a walking distance from one. The secondary school I work at has at least three other secondary schools within three miles of it... they're pretty well dispersed though.

 

Thats our council for you! Thats the problem, what might be alright for you might not be for anyone else. Your persepective isnt going to be the same as a rural folk, or someone who lives in the north or in scotland. I certainly dont consider 9 miles acceptable to bike, not with the weather how it is. I wonder if you would if you lived in the Scottish highlands in the middle of winter for example.

Im by no means lazy, i used to walk 4 miles to work, but after a hard day of manual labour, wearing rigger boots in the middle of summer...

 

I dont particulaly disagree with you but your theory only works for (i would guess) a minority; able-bodied, with a workplace which is within a reasonable distance, and is suitable to get changed and leave a bike all day, you must have a shopping centre in reasonable distance of your house or your house within reasonable distance of a bus stop, schools within walking distance, other services within walking/bus journey (hospitals, dentists, etc)... the list goes on.

 

Basically it boils down to able bodied young lads who live in the city! lol

[garethEds]

Sheesh - diesel in my local Tesco went up to 113.9 today.

 

Unbelievable. I notice there is nothing in the papers about it.

 

GJE

[john]

Its been around 110.9 for a good few weeks here, fine not quite as high as yours but still high. Did I not read somewhere at the start of the year / late last year that by this time next year we will be paying something crazy like 139.9 or something silly like that?!

[cookie_monster]

Its been around 110.9 for a good few weeks here, fine not quite as high as yours but still high. Did I not read somewhere at the start of the year / late last year that by this time next year we will be paying something crazy like 139.9 or something silly like that?!

 

 

I don't doubt it it's another unavoidable tax like VAT so the gov tend to raise what they predict from it which they like. Get ready for the pain after the election whichever way it goes, cough Lib Dem hopefully

[nicholab]

Let try to reduce the amount we buy the price should then go down. Check your tyres every week when filling!!!