Who would you prefer for a technical role?

[Potato-Peeler]

This is just an out of interest question to network managers really, if you had a support job available who would you prefer, someone who has worked for 3 years in a support role, but is only vocationally qualified, or someone who has just graduated with a computer science degree. Me and a friend were discussing this the other day and couldn't decide.

Cheers

[ChrisH]

Somebody with 3 years experience. In many cases the person with a degree may know loads of advanced stuff, but they are pretty much starting from scratch with a lot of the more basic day to day jobs.

[sidewinder]

Same, the person with 3 years support experiance every time.

Which is a shame for graduates but thats how it goes

[Potato-Peeler]

If this is the trend howcome i tend to see a fair few job descriptions asking for a computer science, or other computer subject, graduate, and say nothing about actual hands on experience?

[irsprint84]

I wouldnt touch anyone from uni with a barge pole, when I was at uni I m surprised if the people who got 1st degree's could even turn a PC on! All my knowledge came from experience.

[pete]

If this is the trend howcome i tend to see a fair few job descriptions asking for a computer science, or other computer subject, graduate, and say nothing about actual hands on experience?

 

Because the person who knows what the job requires isn't necessarily the person who gets to write the advert.

 

Or they're using the qualification as a filtering mechanism, same as certain slave traders do for certs. Experience and actual knowledge gets you the job, qualifications and certs are often needed to get you the interview.

[pavlovs_dog]

I graduated from uni with a degree in Information Technology, it provided very little help when I started out as an IT Tech nearly 9 years ago. However, now I am on the SLT is has proved very useful.

[irsprint84]

I graduated from uni with a degree in Information Technology, it provided very little help when I started out as an IT Tech nearly 9 years ago. However, now I am on the SLT is has proved very useful.

 

I lost all my knowledge when I went into university, took me a year to get back into things after uni, they were teaching Microsoft Office skills as a module for a computer and network technologies degree!

[elsiegee40]

My IT degree was only of use as a proving I had been educated to degree level. The job offers came in as I built up experience.

 

My first 'proper' job came 12 months after graduation once I'd built some work experience up.

 

Having said that, I have been impressed by the content of some of the more modern courses. I think that IT graduates are much better prepared for the workplace than I was!

 

In summary, a degree helps if that is the educational level I'm looking for. An It degree might tip the balance between 2 candidates, relevant experience would win hands down... and any work experience is better than none.

[BatchFile]

I'd probably go for the experienced one, too.

 

I did Computational Physics at uni and was an "enthusiastic amateur" at home, taking PCs to bits and stuff... but pretty well everything (Edit: Relevant) I know I've learned by figuring it out on the job. I keep meaning to get some M$ qualifications at some point but ha ve never yet got round to it...

[Dos_Box]

I get to sit on a fair few interview panels and always rate experience over quals. When under questions you can always begin to see just who knows what after a couple of technical questions. The thing about support roles is it is impossible to 'teach' it in any way due to the sheer scope of the job, and everyone knows things that others don't, which is why it is so important to get a balanced team together. Some like coding, some like networking and others are mail and firewall nuts. Bring them together right and you've the base for an excellent team with a vast scope for the cross pollination of knowledge.

IMHO Quals are only a way to get your foot in the door at entry level, beyond that LEARN!

[Mako]

I've been an IT Tech for nearly 2 years. I left 6th Form with... passes, and I wouldn't have gone to Uni even if I had got straight A's. I applied for a part time job in a school, and luckily for me an apprenticeship scheme run by the council, that the Headteacher knew about, allowed me to work in the school in my desired role as an IT Tech with no prior "professional" experience or Uni degrees. My GCSEs and A Levels are all I have, although I do also have Cisco IT Essentials I and II certificates.

 

Nearly 2 years later I have an NVQ Level 2 and I've almost completed my NVQ Level 3.

 

From a personal perspective, I've learned more with the 2 years of hands-on experience than I would have ever learned from studying code and theory of computing and computer science. It's all very well knowing how DirectX works, or how processors actually process functions and commands, but that doesn't really help you diagnose why the sound is not coming out of the speakers, why the Interactive Whiteboard is not working or why the computer continually reboots itself.

 

Your posts have filled me with confidence to know that I'm more employable than someone with a gleaming degree.

[jcollings]

This is just an out of interest question to network managers really, if you had a support job available who would you prefer, someone who has worked for 3 years in a support role, but is only vocationally qualified, or someone who has just graduated with a computer science degree. Me and a friend were discussing this the other day and couldn't decide.

Cheers

 

I would prefer the person who had the best people skills and who came across as the best fit for my team on the day.

 

I always maintain that as long as someone has the right attitude I can train them how to do technical stuff. If someone's people skills are rubbish it is much harder to teach people those skills.

 

I have worked with highly technical and skilled people who have been rubbish with the customers. I have also worked with much less technical people who's manner has made the customers love them even if it takes them a little longer to solve a problem.

[Potato-Peeler]

I've been an IT Tech for nearly 2 years. I left 6th Form with... passes, and I wouldn't have gone to Uni even if I had got straight A's. I applied for a part time job in a school, and luckily for me an apprenticeship scheme run by the council, that the Headteacher knew about, allowed me to work in the school in my desired role as an IT Tech with no prior "professional" experience or Uni degrees. My GCSEs and A Levels are all I have, although I do also have Cisco IT Essentials I and II certificates.

 

Nearly 2 years later I have an NVQ Level 2 and I've almost completed my NVQ Level 3.

 

From a personal perspective, I've learned more with the 2 years of hands-on experience than I would have ever learned from studying code and theory of computing and computer science. It's all very well knowing how DirectX works, or how processors actually process functions and commands, but that doesn't really help you diagnose why the sound is not coming out of the speakers, why the Interactive Whiteboard is not working or why the computer continually reboots itself.

 

Your posts have filled me with confidence to know that I'm more employable than someone with a gleaming degree.

 

Same opinion here, i should get my NVQ 3 next month. This thread makes me feel a lot better. lol. Thank you for people who took time to post.

[jcs808]

For me it would depend on the role that was being offered.

 

If it was for someone based off-site or I needed a roving trouble shooter who would get on with the job without needing too much supervision then I would maybe favour experience over qualifications.

 

If it were for a trainee job, then maybe qualifications would suggest a person would have a certain level of learning capability.

 

I will say this, and I’m not exactly proud to say it, but I have found too many university graduates to have the wrong attitude. I’ve meet some who have maybe thought that they are a bit too special to be crawling around the floor or in ceiling panels. Just my experience mind you.

[srochford]

I'd very much agree with jcollings - I think I'd rate people skills and experience pretty much equal first and qualifications some way behind (degree, GNVQ, MCSE, whatever)

 

That's not to say quals aren't important but they tell me different things - eg if you have a degree then it shows that you can do a reasonable amount of work under some pressure and stick at it for 3 years (I know there are exceptions but that's generally going to be true). If you've done a GNVQ in the evenings then that also tells me something about you as a person.

 

I think the best person I ever took on came with no real IT experience (he was the guy in the office that people turned to for IT help but it wasn't his job) and no qualifications other than a degree in something completely irrelevant. He turned out to be one of those people who just learned stuff; was excellent at troubleshooting and had brilliant people skills!

[broc]

I would echo the views of many others; people skills with experience count more than qualifications here at my school too.

 

On the last three occasions when we needed to fill IT technician vacancies, when it came to it the decision to appoint was based upon the 'person', their qualifications were irrelevant.

 

Part of our interview process includes getting candidates to work with a teacher & class of students for part of a lesson & we solicit feedback from the students & well as staff. In almost every aspect, the views of the staff, students & interview panel were perfectly aligned.

 

Sadly for the school, some of these people we appointed have now moved on to better things, but they were certainly the right people for us at the time.

[Lee_K_81]

I wouldnt touch anyone from uni with a barge pole, when I was at uni I m surprised if the people who got 1st degree's could even turn a PC on! All my knowledge came from experience.

 

To me that comment is very short sighted.

 

My current team consists of myself, a Computer Science graduate about to finish a part-time masters degree, a computing grad, one member of staff who started at uni, but never finished and somebody who didnt go to uni. All have their own strengths and weaknesses. It takes all-sorts. Do I feel that the degrees have taught me anything that I either use or couldn't have learnt myself? Probably not, but like it or not, employers look for degrees, MCSEs, etc. Especially as you work your way up the ladder.

 

In answer to the OPs question about the 3 years experience or a degree for the role of a IT Tech, I'd interview both, the final decision would be taken by a panel of at least 3 and personality goes a long way. I would like to see some sort of quals and certs from the non-grad candidate though. The last time we advertised a post we had 65 applicants, the application needs to stand out. A non-existant quals section or supporting evidence/experience section stand out in the wrong way. One other point that would stick in my mind is why isnt the guy with 3 years experience looking to progress to a NM, etc. (obviously somebody that started very young would be an exception to this!)

 

Above all else showing a desire to learn and improve go a long way.

[brookesandrew]

Having sat on several interview panels in a university, I would always go for the person who had real life experience over just a degree (i.e. a graduate) which didn't always go down well with my fellow interviewer (mostly academics), but I stood my ground several times if I was to be the line manager I wanted final say. On the whole I ended up with a very good team under me.

 

I write this as someone without a degree but loads of experience, I am starting to wonder if I want to move jobs again do I need to get a degree as it appears to be becoming an "essential" on lots of job descriptions I have seen recently.

[jcollings]

I write this as someone without a degree but loads of experience, I am starting to wonder if I want to move jobs again do I need to get a degree as it appears to be becoming an "essential" on lots of job descriptions I have seen recently.

 

It's interesting that you say that. I have noticed this too although in the last few months I have noticed a lot of organisations are now starting to put degree or equivalent experience. How you judge that I'm not sure but hopefully those of us without degrees but lots of experience would qualify!

[sparkeh]

Hmm I think it depends on the person and the role.

I know people who left my Comp Sci degree course with no practical knowledge and who I wouldn't employ now but also people who have experience but learn nothing from their work.

 

I have been on a few interview panels in my time and have set and overseen technical tasks for the applicants. I deliberately, and some would say quite meanly, set difficult tasks so I can see how people react to not knowing something. The best employees have been the ones who have had a go then actually said "I dont know how to do this", some just give up, bluff or leave it out.

 

I usually try to make an assessment on how they will fit into how the school works and their attitude to work.

[localzuk]

It's a very subjective issue. Some people who leave Uni with a degree will have the right mindset to be able to slot right in to a support role. Sure, they won't have a big bank of experience to call upon, but they have the right mindset to find things out.

 

And conversely, some people who have experience turn out to be script-reading monkeys.

 

Personally, I got my job, even though I didn't finish my degree, because I had also worked in support at the university, and have a long history, even during high school, of network support. So, it was based on my experience and skills really.

[KWestos]

I recently hired a Technician who had NO experience whatsoever. We had ex uni, almost finished uni, experienced guys currently doing the job, all who applied and many interviewed. But in the end, I plumped for a middle-aged lady who had GREAT interpersonal skills, which I would say is hugely underrated and VITAL in a school!

 

You can teach someone the skills needed. But you can't give them a personality!!

[farmerste]

i always think it is better to work with someone who is prepared to admit they are wrong, although experience, and user 'friendliness' are also important.

[Pottsey]

I would go for someone who has worked for 3 years in a support role. But that doesn’t mean that are any good by default. Give them some tasks to complete. If they appeared to be experienced then I would prefer them.