Anyone got a CC3 network that they're happy with - and could I come see it?

[AngryTechnician]

The school I work in has been running a vanilla Windows Server network ever since switching from Novell many, many years ago. Other schools that we've worked with have often been unhappy with their Community Connect networks and have come to us to help them go 'vanilla'.

 

However, it's obvious that plenty of schools must be running a Community Connect network without any problems, or RM simply wouldn't be in business. Since I've never seen a fully functional one that wasn't in the process of being dismantled in a blizzard of criticism, I'm wondering whether anyone here who runs CC3 and is perfectly happy with it would mind me popping in to see you for a few hours one day to see how it all works?

 

This may seem like an odd request, but it's simply borne out of curiosity. I've read plenty of posts here about various management systems and am interested to see how the 'other half' lives! I work in Buckinghamshire and live in Berkshire, so somewhere in that region would be ideal.

Edited April 3, 2009 by AngryTechnician

[webman]

We've been running RM CC3 successfully since 2002 - still on the original installation, on Windows 2000 servers and XP clients. North-east England.

[Marci]

RM CC3 here, with no issues. Windows 2003 servers, XP clients, OSX clients, X-Server, FreeBSD webserver integrated via LDAP, Trapeze managed wireless system... Wakefield, West Yorkshire - feel free to come visit... altho bit of a trek.

[garethEds]

We ran a working CC3 network. We never had any major problems. Yes things went wrong (SR4 anyone?) - but otherwise even our field trials and early adoption software went well.

 

To me it all came down to how much people want to understand CC3. We did a lot with CC3 and the reason we did a lot of the field trials was to get access to the designers and engineers. This was great as we often slipped in other questions to them.

 

We are now vanilla - everything is good.

 

GJE

[Butuz]

Been running shweet for the last 4 years. Bit far from you though!

 

TBH, in my humble oppinion the only way you could possibly ruin CC3 is either through bad managment of it (i.e not keeping up to date with patches etc), or from consistant tinkering with the active directory. - but then evern Connect 2 ran like clockwork for me (and lots of people moaned about that) so maybe I'm just blessed by the RM gods

 

Butuz

[synaesthesia]

Agreed, most of my schools are CC3 and the only issues I've had to really mop up is due to bad package building and servers not being kept up to date previously. I've recently helped set up a vanilla system at one school and the difference is amazing - i.e. how much less work there is to do on a CC3 system once it's up and running. There's good support for both systems on T'Internet so that's not really an issue either way. I've certainly seen people be very happy with CC3 once they've moved from vanilla as it meant they could ditch a permanent techy from site (not good for the techy, though!). Thats something that depends on the size of the site though.

[mb2k01]

I think it would also be important to ask for the backgrounds of the schools / network management teams which are being asked the question.

 

An RM connect network might get a positive report from a school / manager, but have the school / manager experienced anything else? Are they comparing their product to a well-managed dynamic vanilla system?

 

I come from an RM background, but moved to Vanilla and never looked back. You are only restricted by the bounderies of your own knowledge.

[AngryTechnician]

An RM connect network might get a positive report from a school / manager, but have the school / manager experienced anything else? Are they comparing their product to a well-managed dynamic vanilla system?

 

That's exactly the comparison I'd like to make myself. The vast majority of my experience is with vanilla systems, so I'd like something to compare it to. I'm not looking for the holy grail of RM installations, just one that the people using it don't have noticeable problems with.

 

Thanks for the offers so far; they are a fair distance from me, but I will bear them in mind!

[sparkeh]

If you can make it to Leicestershire I have a smooth running CC3 network in a medium sized primary school you are more than welcome to take a look at.

 

Off on hols today but around after a couple of weeks.

Edited April 4, 2009 by sparkeh

[webman]

An RM connect network might get a positive report from a school / manager, but have the school / manager experienced anything else? Are they comparing their product to a well-managed dynamic vanilla system?

 

But if it works, does this really matter?

[mb2k01]

But if it works, does this really matter?

 

I guess it depends who you ask that question to.

If you ask it to the network team managing it, probably not.

If you ask the teachers who know nothing else, then probably not.

If you ask someone who has experience of both and wants to ensure overall best value + real-world experience of using IT for learners, then it probably does, yes.

[ReverentCreature]

Everythign has been running fine here since 2004. We are CC3 with 150 workstations and two servers. The key to a good network is keping the servers updated and good package creation and documentation of all the settings made. Only had a few glitches and there has always ben a good explanation. On the whole I have found the software to be very good and the technical support to a very high standard.

 

The big advantage for the school is if I leave, RM can take over the running of the network to the next person who takes over. If this was a vanilla network I would take my knowlege with me and anyone taking over woudl have to be very skilled and would have no support from RM to keep the netwokr ticking over with their software whilst trying to unravel and understand the underlying workings of the system.

 

Youre welcome to come visit. We are in Gillingham, Kent.

[Sylv3r]

We are based in the north east of england too. 4 RM Servers and 850 clients - no problems what so ever and don't have any support with RM or the LA.

 

All support is done in-house - just shows how straight forward it is to use and manage IMO.

[Outpost]

I come from a vanilla background to a CC3 network and I absolutely hate it. So many niggly things that stop you doing the most straightforward tasks. I find it flakey and unreliable. Also it has taken me a lot of time to adjust to this type of network, if it was vanilla I would have picked it up in a heartbeat.

 

I salute those that have a stable CC3 and enjoy it, I just can't see how you can.

[Butuz]

Care to explain the niggly, flaky and unreliable a bit further Outpost? Some of us here may actually be able to help!

 

Butuz

[ReverentCreature]

Outpost are you using the RM features/tools wherever possible to apply settings? If you start adding vanilla stuff into the network you may be damaging or conflicting with the RM software/settings, thus creating problems for yourself.

[Outpost]

Hi All,

 

Thanks for your responses, I'll try and explain on the next post (going home now)but suffice to say even the engineers have had tough times sorting our problems out.

I am keeping away from meddling with Active Directory and just using the RM console.

[Outpost]

Following on from yesterdays post and I apologise for being negative on what is a positive thread.

 

Niggle 1

 

Moving users to another server,

 

Several times I've heard how painless this is and in theory it should be, but in practice there are error messages such as 'file already exists' or whatever and reading the solution on RM it says I have to 'cut' the offending files and put them back in after the move, that'll take me months.

I've tried deleting the whole work area and then moving the account but it doesn't move correctly. I still have to go in to Active Directory to correct their profile and Home directory settings.

 

Niggle 2

 

Profiles.

 

Regularly we have students with corrupt profiles, easyish to fix, reset profile in RM console and delete local profile on machine if it's there as well to make sure. Some kiddies take advantage as they have a semi admin account when that happens and cause mischief.

 

Niggle 3

 

Rebuilds.

 

We are now having to build to Windows first and then commision them afterwards. We have had the engineers spending huge amounts of time on this and they finally fixed it for one type of F-series. Trouble is we have a large vareity of computers and the build process can only accomadate a limited amount of machines.

 

Niggle 4

 

RM console.

 

This just packs up for no reason, usually a ISSreset helps but not always, touch wood it has behaved itself recently.

 

Niggle 5

 

Privilaged users.

 

This works ok but I always forget to add it to a staff machine.

 

Niggle 6

 

Speed.

 

A CC3 network is a fair bit slower on the loading and booting up sequence and on older machines it's several minutes. Unfortuntely we do have a LOT of old machines and this seems to exacerbate the problems with profiles and missed mapped drives, for example if they click on the Start button too early it can cause problems (documented on RM support as well)

 

Niggle 7

 

Costs.

 

It's jolly expensive and I'm loathe to stop the critical contracts because I don't have faith in the RM system being stable. In my previous position (vanilla) the ongoing support was a quarter of the costs for the same amount of servers. Commissioning is pretty steep as well. This has definately curtailed development of the IT systems in our school.

Going CC4 will be an absolute no-no, we can't afford it.

 

Niggle 8

 

Being behind the curve, not really a niggle but an observation. You need to test everything is compatable with RM first before going ahead with any plans you may have. Server 2008 ok?? Virtualisation?? I don't know.

 

Niggle 9

 

Software restrictions.

 

This is hit and miss at the best of times. It can work for many exe's like game emualtors for example but can I stop desktop screensavers like Family Guy from screenmates, no. No matter what I try it still runs.

It could be me being a half-wit but why does it work for one exe and not another?

 

 

I know many of the problems have workarounds and when I have time I'll try and implement some of them but why should I have to. I visit the RM support pages frequently and it seems full to the brim with articles on getting round problems. Problems that shouldn't be there.

 

I can see how an RM network would be a great benefit to a school and I notice that many of you have managed that but I'm not in that position unfortunately and to get to that stage will take a lot of time (and maybe money), time that I don't have.

I'm not advocating how great a vanilla set up is, it certainly has its problems. But I'm sure, in my case anyway, this network would have been less troublesome being vanilla.

Edited April 23, 2009 by Outpost

[HarryMonkey]

Nice working system here in MK. In fact, I have worked with RM systems for 13+ years now in different schools and have never had a problem with any of their systems and that includes some failrly extensive systems.

 

(ok, RM Net 3.1 was a bit hit and miss at times, but apart from that ...)

[Jamo]

We have a stable CC3 network. Seems the core is quite stable, we have had few probs. The corrupt profile thing is very common it seems here but thats about it. Yeah logons on older machines is a problem on some of our old ones we were looking at 30 mins or so before a usable windows was there but thats the extreme of it. The networks never seem to be that exciting though, small storage servers and most of the products here are RM as once your in they only support their own range of products :s But saying that our network (touch wood) is very stable

[PiqueABoo]

But you can't buy a CC3 network now can you?

[AngryTechnician]

Thanks all so far for the various offers, it's much appreciated. stevenewman, you're by far the closest to me; I'll be in touch by PM to see if we can arrange something.

 

PiqueABoo: not sure if your question was aimed at me, but the reason I asked abut CC3 and not CC4 was because I'm well aware of the number of people who've had trouble with CC4 and wanted to give RM a fair crack of the whip despite the various criticism that are levelled at them. Fewer people seem to have problems with CC3.

 

Thanks again all!

Edited April 24, 2009 by AngryTechnician

[PiqueABoo]

Fewer people seem to have problems with CC3.

 

Absolutely, although a judgement based on a relatively old and non-available product is arguably too generous.

 

Behind the RM console, CC3 is just another Windows config albeit a seriously developed one, the extra RM code is mostly stable, and if you know enough Windows you can work with the system - it's fine.

 

CC4 has ridiculous overheads (450MB RAM to manage an OS that gets by with 125MB!) and with or without the bugs it is much more proprietory. Some of the routinely ignorant mud I've seen thrown at CC3 would stick to CC4.

[ReverentCreature]

With regards to Niggle 9 if you ahve standard users and standard workstation security then exes should be blocked. If children are installing software then there has to be a loophole somewhere. What path rules are set up in the Managent Console? If the previous person lifted the security on loads of folder then thats how users are running the installs.

[Outpost]

Well ReverentCreature thats a distinct possibility, when I took over there was a 1 character password policy in place. I think there has been years of neglect shall we say.

 

I want to rip it all out and start again.