Staff access to student work

[AngryITGuy]

Staff here currently have read/write access which I am not happy about as staff could possibly be using this to modify student coursework and possible inadvertently delete work amongst other things.

 

Spoken to a few colleagues here and they all allow read access only and that’s how it has been at their schools. I also want to change staff access to read only here but need something to help me deal with the fallout once it has been implemented as there will be plenty of that!

 

Is dealing with this problem a matter of individual opinion of the school or is there something like a formal document out there that can tell me what access staff should have?

 

Please HELP!

[KWestos]

This is a good question which I would like to know the answer to!

[kmount]

Do you have an AUP in place which dictates that this access is required?

 

Personally we don't allow it here for the reasons you outlined.

[jamesb]

The idea of teachers having even read access makes me shudder.

 

I do remember one incident, where a certain senior teacher kicked up enough of a fuss that I was ordered to give them access to all student's work. As a result, one sixth former had their entire art photography portfolio deleted. That would've been their coursework.

 

Similarly we lost two media student's videos, and almost an entire year's worth of music coursework.

 

Needless to say the status quo was quickly restored and the only people permitted to have access to student files were the IT technical staff. If teachers had specific concerns, they came through us and brought a member of SLT.

 

I always maintained the position that it was similar to searching a student's bag or locker, and should not be taken lightly.

[rj_mayer]

Hi AngryITGuy,

 

I dare say there could be some guidance from BECTA, if you look hard enough! Until I got here, there was no access to student areas at all. We were forever being asked to extract over-due work etc from student areas for teachers. I set up a p: drive (they used to be called pupils!) for all staff that has read only access to the student directory structure. I wouldn't dream of giving anything further for fear of the [potentially disastrous] consequences!

 

 

All the best,

 

Richard

[teejay]

We allow read only access to the staff for the pupils My Documents, but certainly not write access.

 

There are a number of laws which you could cite for this, such as the Computer Misuse Act and the Data Protection Act. I'm sure the exam boards wouldn't be too happy either if staff had open access to alter students work.

[KWestos]

 

I always maintained the position that it was similar to searching a student's bag or locker, and should not be taken lightly.

 

We treat their network area like a school textbook/file. It's there to be inspected any time!!!

[AngryITGuy]

Thanks for the replies, there have been some interesting comments submitted here.

 

@kmount we do have a AUP but it doesn't state anything about access to student data, may need an update me thinks.

 

@jamesb interesting you compare it to searching a students bag/locker. Didn't actually see it from that point of view. I suppose to some extent the students do need their privacy.

 

@rj_mayer tried the BECTA site but didn't find anything helpfull, will need to look a little harder.

 

Didn't realise it was going to open such a can of worms, but there are clearly issues here with privacy and data protection that I didn't even consider.

 

Just not sure how staff would react if access was removed totally!

[jcollings]

I think read only is fair enough. In terms of privacy our AUP says that we can look in their documents areas etc. I think staff are professional enough to do it when needed though.

[featured_spectre]

We give READ ONLY access to the staff. But for the most part they use the VLP now.

 

I have a clause in the AUP which states that the staff have read only access which for legal reasons they cant have more (Computer misuse act and Data protection). It put them firmly in there place and they deal with it. Before they have full access. I put a stop to that as soon as I found out.

[ICTSM]

To answer your question. No, teaching staff are NOT allowed full access to student directories. And that's straight from an OFSTED inspector's mouth.

 

Having said that, the RM (CC3) system is setup to give staff full access to student accounts if they become 'Delegates'. Naughty...very naughty. But I imagine that this was written before the no-fullaccess rule came into force.

[martynbez]

We have just had this issue raised here.

 

Just wanted to know if there is a defined answer on the matter or is it differant from school to school?

[eean]

To answer your question. No, teaching staff are NOT allowed full access to student directories. And that's straight from an OFSTED inspector's mouth.

 

Sorry, but the words that come out of an Ofsted inspector's mouth isn't worth the paper it's not written on. If the OP wants to deal with potential fallout from staff then he's going to have to have something written down. Like the many "health and safety" rules, usually bounded about by LEA advisors, most of them have come from nowhere. (See: Health & Saftey Exec - H&S Myths, and TUC - H&S Looking at the truth behind the headlines)

 

I'm not sure that this is something you should get too upset over. Certainly, if you cut of access and say it's because you think that staff may interfere with coursework is going to give you massive headaches and, quite frankly, you're probably not paid enough to have to put up with that. You're basically insulting their professionalism. It's like saying to a doctor he can't have access to drugs incase he maliciously kills someone - yes, we all know it has happened, but it doesn't mean that all doctors are murderers.

 

I'd email someone in the SMT and explain the situation, outlining the risks. You could stick some more techie reasons in there too e.g. Having lots of read access directories means that any virus that gets into the network can spread itself extremely quickly. Do it in a very rounded 'just explaining the situation' kind of a way.

If they say yes, then you do it, citing that they've asked you to. Any teacher got a problem with that say "yes, I see your point. Ask the head - just followin' orders gov'ner"

If they say no, then you're not to blame when it all goes pear shaped.

Edited June 12, 2009 by eean

[jamesb]

I'm not sure that this is something you should get too upset over. Certainly, if you cut of access and say it's because you think that staff may interfere with coursework is going to give you massive headaches and, quite frankly, you're probably not paid enough to have to put up with that. You're basically insulting their professionalism. It's like saying to a doctor he can't have access to drugs incase he maliciously kills someone - yes, we all know it has happened, but it doesn't mean that all doctors are murderers.

 

In many cases I'd say its more like not giving a doctor's receptionist access to drugs in case they prescribe the wrong ones for patients. With full access to student areas a lot of damage can be done, just by hitting the wrong key. The blame for that isn't going to laid at the feet of the person who did it, its going to be placed on either 'the system' or on the support people most of the time.

 

Not only that but to a point students should be able to have a little privacy in their areas. There's no rule that they can't keep, say, a diary or their own personal writing in their area. In cases where a student's suspected of abusing that privacy then fine, remove it, but in most cases its not going to do any harm and providing that sort of access is just an extension of the Big Brother system that's spreading far too quickly for my liking.

[Disease]

The idea of teachers having even read access makes me shudder.

 

I do remember one incident, where a certain senior teacher kicked up enough of a fuss that I was ordered to give them access to all student's work. As a result, one sixth former had their entire art photography portfolio deleted. That would've been their coursework.

 

Similarly we lost two media student's videos, and almost an entire year's worth of music coursework.

 

.

 

 

That's why here we have........Back ups, that way no one loses anything, we give certain teachers (mostly IT Teachers) full access.

[jamesb]

That's why here we have........Back ups, that way no one loses anything, we give certain teachers (mostly IT Teachers) full access.

 

Backups existed, but in the photography case half of the photos had been taken and uploaded that day.

[eean]

In many cases I'd say its more like not giving a doctor's receptionist access to drugs in case they prescribe the wrong ones for patients. With full access to student areas a lot of damage can be done, just by hitting the wrong key. The blame for that isn't going to laid at the feet of the person who did it, its going to be placed on either 'the system' or on the support people most of the time.

 

Not only that but to a point students should be able to have a little privacy in their areas. There's no rule that they can't keep, say, a diary or their own personal writing in their area. In cases where a student's suspected of abusing that privacy then fine, remove it, but in most cases its not going to do any harm and providing that sort of access is just an extension of the Big Brother system that's spreading far too quickly for my liking.

 

Ok, so I'm playing a bit of devil's advocate here. I personally can't think of a good reason why a teacher should need to edit pupils files, so therefore they shouldn't have access to them.

Back to the (rather poor - fair enough) doctor analogy: I'm sure there are a plenty of incompetent doctors out there but to suggest that they would intentionally go about killing people, isn't going to make you many friends (nor is suggesting that teachers are akin to receptionists!)

 

The privacy argument isn't going to help much - if kids want privacy there are plenty ways they can achieve that. A pen drive would be a good start. There are plenty of techs on here who purchase key.

[jamesb]

Back to the (rather poor - fair enough) doctor analogy: I'm sure there are a plenty of incompetent doctors out there but to suggest that they would intentionally go about killing people, isn't going to make you many friends (nor is suggesting that teachers are akin to receptionists!)

 

The receptionist comparison was probably a bad one, but I was trying to highlight that giving complete access to student work to someone who doesn't know exactly what that entails, and any issues that come up, isn't the same as providing a doctor with medical drugs. A doctor with medical drugs knows how they should be prescribed and used. An end-user (not just teachers, any end-user) with any sort of administrative access is not a doctor with access to those drugs, maybe a physics expert would've made a better comparison.

 

It doesn't matter how good they are their role, a physicist is not going to be able to make a valid diagnosis and provide the right drugs.

 

The privacy argument isn't going to help much - if kids want privacy there are plenty ways they can achieve that. A pen drive would be a good start. There are plenty of techs on here who purchase key.

 

There are also plenty of networks where pen drives are locked down, or locked out entirely. Besides which if they're using the computer on their own personal time (after-school clubs, lunch breaks and so on) why should teaching staff be able to see their own personal work?

 

Now the textbook argument doesn't really compare either. It would be more like allowing a teacher to insist that a student show them all textbooks, exercise books and personal books that they might bring into school. A science teacher has every right to look at a student's science exercise book and textbooks during the lesson. Why should they be checking English books?

[rosswilson]

Does anybody have any real life scenario where a teacher would need read or read/write access to student's work?

 

I have been following this thread and cannot think of any reasons where a teacher would need access at all. A lot of students My Documents folders lack organisation and thus it is bad enough them trying to find the correct version of their coursework - let alone the teacher.

 

Just something to think about and spark a conversation...

 

Ross

[jamesb]

Does anybody have any real life scenario where a teacher would need read or read/write access to student's work?

 

I have been following this thread and cannot think of any reasons where a teacher would need access at all. A lot of students My Documents folders lack organisation and thus it is bad enough them trying to find the correct version of their coursework - let alone the teacher.

 

Just something to think about and spark a conversation...

 

Ross

 

I honestly can't think of a single scenario where a teacher would need read access, let alone write access.

 

In which case the whole thing comes down to basic security principles. Least privilege.

[srochford]

Ok, so I'm playing a bit of devil's advocate here. I personally can't think of a good reason why a teacher should need to edit pupils files, so therefore they shouldn't have access to them.

 

Take it back to the other example - this is like the exercise books. We don't say "teachers can't have write access to the exercise books"; we absolutely expect them to write in the books when they mark them.

 

I'm not actually saying we should allow teachers direct access to student home areas (I don't think we should!) but there are plenty of good reasons that people can come up with to justify it; it's up to techy types to offer better ways of handling things. For example, you might have some sort of submission system where a pupil can submit a piece of work which then takes it out of their folder and puts it in a teacher area. The teacher can then mark and return it. Not really sure how you'd implement it but it has to be possible :-)

 

I think also that care needs to be taken; unless you explicitly tell pupils that people may look at the contents of their folder at any time and they should not keep anything personal in there then it's pretty unreasonable to go exploring their personal space. There are all sorts of perfectly reasonable things that a pupil might do in their own time which would be private and no-one should be accessing unless there's suspicion of wrong doing.

[BTCC_Fan]

Its one of those interesting issues.

 

I don't think that a teacher should have automatic rights to read their files etc but it should be given with a valid reason.

 

If you think of the exercise book anaolgy then a teacher can only look at it when the student brings it in, they can't look it at it whenever they like.

[speckytecky]

Anyone got a pointer to best practice for access permissions for a school network please. Reason for asking - at one secondary level school I work in currently, which has a Windows 2003 server network set up by a local IT company access across the network is currently set to "Everyone" and the only control measures that seem to be in place come from various logon.bat files applied to users in AD!

 

I'm keen to get in there and make things more secure but would find it useful have a plan of action about what to set up.

[p858snake]

Anyone got a pointer to best practice for access permissions for a school network please. Reason for asking - at one secondary level school I work in currently, which has a Windows 2003 server network set up by a local IT company access across the network is currently set to "Everyone" and the only control measures that seem to be in place come from various logon.bat files applied to users in AD!

 

I'm keen to get in there and make things more secure but would find it useful have a plan of action about what to set up.

 

Before really commenting, we would need a better overview of your network, eg: how user accounts are setup, your folder strucutre, your share structures ect.

 

As a stop gap measure i would:

* Quickly change your Everyone permissions to either "Domain Users" or "Authenticated Users" (I forget what win 03 calls it).

* Also i would make sure all users have no permission to access the drives on the server (either locally or network looking (eg: going directly to \\servername\) and only on allow on folders they need.

* I also also hide all the shares that i can (eg: setting the share name to $)

[jcollings]

Does anybody have any real life scenario where a teacher would need read or read/write access to student's work?

 

I have been following this thread and cannot think of any reasons where a teacher would need access at all. A lot of students My Documents folders lack organisation and thus it is bad enough them trying to find the correct version of their coursework - let alone the teacher.

 

Just something to think about and spark a conversation...

 

Ross

 

We have had the need here e.g. student goes off (holiday/study leave/illness etc) and hasn't copied a piece of design work which needs to be machined overnight by the DT teacher to the right place. DT teacher needs to access it. If he has read access he can just get it sorted. I know they can come to us for it but it makes life easier all round if they can simply copy it them self.

 

There are many other examples along the same lines. Students often go off not having printed work needed for portfoilios etc.

 

I see no need for write access though.