What sites do you allow staff access but not students?

[b_m]

Hi all,

 

I am new to the forum so please be nice! I am a teacher (sorry!) in a secondary school, with a network manager who believes that RM is the best thing ever and there is no other way to run a network!

 

So basically, I have doubts as to whether he actually has a clue or not!

 

Having worked in another school in the area also connected through the same internet provider, the differences between the schools policies have shocked me greatly.

 

To cut it short, in one school I was allowed pretty much unfiltered access (obviously porn would be filtered!), and could access youtube, facebook, bebo etc. This was logged and if accesses to facebook etc were seen during teaching hours you obviously would be questioned, but apart from that it was basically restriction free.

 

In the second school staff do not have access to youtube. facebook, google images etc. Staff are on the same internet connection (and filtering) as the pupils. It obviously is possible for different groups to have different filtering as evidenced by one of the two schools, but the second school just doesn't know how to administer this properly.

 

My question is, do you allow staff different internet viewing permissions to students- and if so what can staff view that students can't? Please could you answer the poll and post details in the thread?

 

Thanks for your time in answering this!

 

B_m

[Sylv3r]

Staff and students have access to the same sites here.

[Diello]

Staff have access to YouTube (teaching resource) and recently FaceBook (some drama companies use it to contact teachers etc.) - they also have access to "extreme viewpoint" websites the students can't access - e.g Pro-life/Pro-choice advocates, where-as students can only access balanced websites. We also allow them access to personal email providers, however school policy dictates that they must use their school account for all professional correspondence.

 

Bebo/MySpace etc. are blocked as there is no educational case for it.

 

Yes - most filtering software will allow you to set up filtering based on groups - and RM certainly doesn't stop you doing this.

 

As for RM being the best thing ever - well, it depends really - if IT Services don't have enough staff to support the school, then network management needs to take a back seat over helping people, at which point RM does make sense. If they have enough staff though, then they really should consider a standard Microsoft network. Unless they've only ever worked in education and only know RM of course.

[sahmeepee]

Our staff can get on slightly more than pupils, most notably their home email. Pupils can't access webmail because we get a lot of cases of bullying via email so it makes sense to channel all email in school through a route that we can manage.

 

Until the LA blocked them, our staff could get on Facebook, Youtube and iPlayer. IIRC we had all those blocked for the kids. Staff don't seem to be too bothered about FB (it's a mixed blessing having it available 24/7 IMHO), but they do miss the educational benefits of Youtube and iPlayer. Luckily we can use zamzar.com to get Youtube videos on a one-off basis.

 

Obviously I can see the reason for blocking incredibly bandwidth-hungry video sites when capacity is finite and would rather lose Youtube than suffer slow speeds on every website.

 

On your first point, there are currently other ways than RM to run a school network, but unfortunately that seems to be changing.

[Tallwood_6]

We have different filtering policies for staff and students, however staff internet usage is still reasonably tight. The fact your current school uses RM should have no impact on what may or may not be getting filtered, in fact there’s a good chance both schools are using the same LEA provided filtering setup. Unless you are having difficulty getting to the resources you need to teach with i fail to see you complaint, the schools Filtering policies are likely set and approved by the schools senior leadership. Sometimes you just have to accept that different school IT departments implement things differently.

[ssiruuk2]

Staff have very relaxed filtering at our school - the students get the other extreme

 

Staff can't download executables etc though or get on online auction / gambling / porn sites

[b_m]

Thanks for all the feedback so far. Just to clarify a couple of points.....

 

• my point about using RM wasn't meant to imply that RM were doing the filtering, just to give an idea of the level of competency of our network manager. (His response to everything is "I'll raise a ticket with RM")
  
• the reason I ask is that we (me specifically) are trying to raise the use of ICT as a teaching tool amongst all staff. We have invested heavily in projectors and IWB's (an initial SLT response to just throw money at the problem!) but I am aware that there are a lot of good resources on youtube particularly that we are currently restricting staff from using.
  

 

I know of course that lifting restrictions gives rise to issues with staff leaving computers unattended etc, but I think that would be another bridge to cross if and when we actually reached it!

Edited March 7, 2009 by b_m
appear to have lost the ability to spell!

[Ric_]

Year 7 to Year 11 pupils have one level of filtering. Sixth form students have the school-level plus webmail (to allow them to use their Hotmail, Gmail, etc. email when they are doing the UCAS applications and the like). Staff have the Sixth Form level plus a few extra sites as needed.

 

The reason for keeping the filtering levels so similar is for consistency. There's no point in a teacher preparing a lesson and checking out websites only to find that the kids can't access those websites in class.

[b_m]

Year 7 to Year 11 pupils have one level of filtering. Sixth form students have the school-level plus webmail (to allow them to use their Hotmail, Gmail, etc. email when they are doing the UCAS applications and the like). Staff have the Sixth Form level plus a few extra sites as needed.

 

The reason for keeping the filtering levels so similar is for consistency. There's no point in a teacher preparing a lesson and checking out websites only to find that the kids can't access those websites in class.

 

Makes perfect sense to me. Could you say what those "few extra sites as needed" are?

 

Thanks,

 

B_m

[featured_spectre]

Thanks for all the feedback so far. Just to clarify a couple of points.....

 

• my point about using RM wasn't meant to imply that RM were doing the filtering, just to give an idea of the level of competency of our network manager. (His response to everything is "I'll raise a ticket with RM")

 

No network manager should raise a ticket unless having looked thoroughly at the problem and had his technicians look at it. If they cannot fix it, then they can atleast make an informed choice, just doing that without looking at the problem is grounds for negligence in my work.

 

 

• the reason I ask is that we (me specifically) are trying to raise the use of ICT as a teaching tool amongst all staff. We have invested heavily in projectors and IWB's (an initial SLT response to just throw money at the problem!) but I am aware that there are a lot of good resources on youtube particularly that we are currently restricting staff from using.
  

 

I know of course that lifting restrictions gives rise to issues with staff leaving computers unattended etc, but I think that would be another bridge to cross if and when we actually reached it!

 

Tell staff to use teachertube if youtube is blocked. It contains much much more teaching related materials. Sorry to say your NM sounds incompetant if he puts both teachers and staff on the same filter. They should have seperate filters as we have in my school. We have a staff filter which allows alot more than the pupils, but still doesnt allow access to various things such as online gambling, facebook, hotmail, pr0n etc.

 

Just tell him to knock his filters off and use ISA to make life easier!

Edited March 7, 2009 by featured_spectre

[DrCheese]

We're quite relaxed with what staff are allowed to access, Youtube, google images and so on are all allowed. Of course, everything is logged for various reasons.

The only thing we really block staff from (other than porn and websites the LEA has blocked) is social networking websites.

 

When we did allow facebook access to staff, it was always miles ahead of every other website in the usage stats and eventually the school management requested it's removal, as there is no educational need for them to be accessible.

 

As for students, Youtube, social networking, games, non school website and so on are all blocked. We ease the restrictions as they enter Post 16, i.e they can access hotmail.

Edited March 7, 2009 by DrCheese

[Ric_]

Makes perfect sense to me. Could you say what those "few extra sites as needed" are?

 

I can't remember off the top of my head, it's not additional categories of sites though... just the odd site that might serve the vaguest bit of educational contnet.

[RobFrain]

We have two lines from Cleo our provider. One is not filtered and used on our admin network by our SMT.

The other is filtered (By CLEO) and used on our curriculum network. Staff who login on the curriculum side use this line. We then filter this line even further for our students (IE: any games, proxy sites we spot which havent been spotted by county etc etc)

[laserblazer]

Staff and pupils have the same access but staff can use one of the office computers if there's something they need that is filtered. They are in open view which discourages misuse (which we have had big-time in the past).

[AngryTechnician]

Everyone uses the same filtering here on three grounds:

 

1. Our filtering is generally perceived to be quite balanced so there are rarely requests for unblocks.
   
2. I can't say I trust a lot of the staff any more than I do the students.
   
3. I think it would just provide more incentive for students to attempt to misuse a staff account.
   

[witch]

Have you checked with your provider/local authority to see if there are different proxies you can use which will automatically give different filtering levels? (eg SWGfL in our case)

That's how we do it - that way we can lock down the filtering in the school to protect the little angels and also my network, but the teachers can still access the things they need.

[MkII]

Our LA provides one filter for all schools, and schools are happy for them to take the responsibility. The question of differing levels of access in schools is constantly raised, and the above, together with Ric's idea, and our own which is that staff have complete protection from accusation, as it's a more sensitive issue for adults that work in schools.

 

LA staff have different filtering that blocks shopping sites during working hours. School kids & staff can shop all they like!

 

Sorry, there is an exception, school techs have far more relaxed filtering, and could download any suitable and legal to do so material in preparation for lessons.

 

I like the slight on RM techs Watch out for the RM elite who will swoop in now and make you respect them!

[webman]

It obviously is possible for different groups to have different filtering as evidenced by one of the two schools, but the second school just doesn't know how to administer this properly.

 

Schools usually set their own policies. Perhaps the single-tier filtering system was set by the senior leadership team?

 

It might not be a case of not knowing how to administer it "properly" (we only have one level of filtering - are you saying we're not doing it "properly"?) - it may be a case of not having the money/equipment/software to allow staff and students to have separate filtering levels.

 

network manager who believes that RM is the best thing ever and there is no other way to run a network!

 

So basically, I have doubts as to whether he actually has a clue or not

 

Are you basing your assertion that he hasn't got a clue on the fact that he runs an RM network?

Edited March 7, 2009 by webman

[b_m]

Schools usually set their own policies. Perhaps the single-tier filtering system was set by the senior leadership team?

 

It might not be a case of not knowing how to administer it "properly" (we only have one level of filtering - are you saying we're not doing it "properly"?) - it may be a case of not having the money/equipment/software to allow staff and students to have separate filtering levels.

 

 

 

Are you basing your assertion that he hasn't got a clue on the fact that he runs an RM network?

 

You appear to have taken some offence and I can only apologise if this is the case.

 

Our SLT have very little clue with ICT- they are guided by our network manager who is very good at using technical words. Whats the expression, Bulls... baffles .......?

 

My assertions that he hasn't a clue is his general demeanour. Raising a support ticket for the smallest of issues, not being able to diagnose permissions errors with a users account without the RM "Healthcheck" tool and then, if that doesn't work, using the RM "profile reset". Without these buttons he really would be lost!

 

He's still of the opinion that giving pupils 50MB of space should be sufficient for 5 years, and has been known to question GCSE photography students over the number of (obviously work related) photographs stored in their user area. Some of our OCR National students have had audio and video files deleted whilst working on units 22 and 23. And before you ask, he is fully aware of the course content.

 

My initial question was related to what is the "norm" in schools with regards to internet access. I expressed that I was raising the query because I was concerned as to how up to date our NM's knowledge was. That was my reasoning for mentioning RM, nothing more, so please don't lets turn this into a debate on the validity of using RM in schools.

[webman]

That's fine, just had to ask

[mb2k01]

Hi B_M,

 

This is quite a long reply, and in some places quite critical of some of the elements of your posts, but I hope you are able to see it's meant to be a useful / alternate perspective of the situation which may help you....

 

I am curious. Have you sat down with your Network Manager and asked for a more in depth explanation? Has existing protocol been something that Leadership have discussed, or just something that has been inherited?

 

The reason I ask is that your posts seem to heavily suggest you doubt the ability of the Network Manager in your new school, whereas in reality it could just be a case that your previous schools have discussed alternative filtering provisions, and your new school hasn't (which would be a Leadership issue not the Network Manager alone). So maybe your automatic assumption of your new colleague is a little unfair?

 

In any case, I can see both sides of this situation - I’ve dealt with similar teacher requests for relaxed filtering (see *1), but I've also investigated strategic solutions which may offer improved modular filtering because I have been personally unhappy with existing provisions (see *2).

 

*1 - The general perception I’ve had to overcome in the past is that the filtering system acts as a barrier between the teacher and their ability to deliver a quality lesson - which is a completely unacceptable claim! In all instances I’ve come across another solution was available, or the initial request was unstable in the first place (e.g. providing access to a YouTube video where unsuitable comments were seen under the video and links to suggested content were not acceptable!)

 

*2 - I have been lucky (or unlucky!) enough to agree with you on a restrictive filtering solution, but also be in the position to change it! In my circumstances the restrictive solution was RM SafetyNet Plus. It does a good job, but isn't modular. There are many alternatives out there which can either sit on top of it, or be used in its place - but these all have cost implications (and a lot aren't minor cost implications either!)

 

The solution I am likely to implement (unless something else comes along which I’ve not seen yet!) is Impero.

 

I guess in summary I would advise sitting down with your Network Manager informally. Ask if anyone has explored alternatives before, and make him aware (if he isn't already) that decent alternatives exist. If he is happy to go off and research then leave him to it for you. If he isn't, or says he has and it was previously turned down, then discuss it with other department heads, and then Leadership - make them aware there are better alternatives, but that they will require an investment which in turn should improve teaching and learning + make network management easier.

[b_m]

Hi Mark,

 

Thanks for the time you had obviously put into your reply.

 

You may remember that I initially posted asking what was the "norm" in schools- this was so I can actually sit with the NM and have an informed conversation as to where our access was in comparision to other schools nationally. Our school is quite some way behind in terms of ICT use and understanding and i'm hoping to be able to address this with the support of the NM, but obviously needed to get a clearer picture of where others are at the moment.

 

I wouldn't say that I doubt the abilities of our NM, but I do doubt how up to date he his with his knowledge, both of "modern" teaching (such as digital video) and also the way that technologies are moving. He knows his way around the RM management console impeccably, but would doubt whether he would be able to set up a vanilla installation, which, as budgets get squeezed tighter, is becoming an increasingly preferred way of running things, therefore saving on the annual costs. In the scenario I am experiencing, I feel he has accepted that all users have the same level of internet filtering, and "that's the way it is"- his knowledge is not up to date enough to challenge the view and understand that there *are* other ways of it being done.

 

Obviously if you fall behind on your knowledge of how ICT supports teaching and learning then it becomes very hard to support it effectively.

 

I fully take your point that there are normally other solutions to problems caused by filtering. I accept and understand that Youtube videos can be downloaded at home. However, I am trying to raise the level of ICT as a tool for teaching, and some of our staff are, quite literally, years behind. Some of our staff still hand write reports, one has DVD's copied onto VHS because she can't understand how to rewind the DVD disk at the end of the lesson (yes, it's true!!). I can point staff in the direction of some useful, ready made resources on sites like youtube (again, your comments over inappropriate associated content are noted, and understood, and the use of external sites must always be carefully vetted), but if the staff also have to download some sort of youtube flv downloader, download the video, copy it to USB stick then remember to bring it in, it's like putting up barriers to them using ICT as an effective tool- barriers that will stop them "having a go". It's also much harder and more likely to cause problems then being able to show them how to put the link to the video onto a powerpoint!

 

I get frustrated by it- not just our NM but by the way that ICT is "used" in our school. A french teacher will book an ICT suite and spend 3 lessons making a poster in french, then have the whole class print in glorious technicolour, jam the printer on the first printout and just leave it for someone else (normally me it would seem!) to sort the printer out during my next lesson in the room and end up with 30 french posters!! We have spent a fortune on projectors in nearly all rooms and interactive whiteboards in most, but they just seem to be useful to hang the christmas decorations off! I'm trying to signpost to staff easy ways that they can access ICT resources to add interest in their lessons without paying the ransom that companies like Boardworks expect. A situation like I am currently experiencing seems to do nothing to help....

Edited March 7, 2009 by b_m

[mb2k01]

Hi B_M,

 

That scenario sounds very familiar! I'd guess that filtering is probably not at the top of your list after hearing all of that! Just one of many things on the "to do" list?

 

Out of interest, what part of the UK (actually, I'm only assuming UK!) are you in?

I might have missed it earlier in the thread but, what is your position at the school? Are you a Teacher of ICT or the Head of ICT? Does line management of the Network Manager fall to you?

[pagelad]

We mainly use the same filtering for staff and students.

 

I used to be a bit more relaxed with staff accounts until after telling members of staff time and time again it is not allowed for students to use staff accounts some people just didnt think it was important.

[b_m]

Hi again Mark,

 

I'm not HoD, but also above the role of a teacher- so a teacher with a responsibility if that makes sense. My background is technical before I did teacher training.

 

My logic is that by removing some of the barriers to using ICT and actually making it a valuable tool in the classroom, staff will actually want to use it, rather then feeling that they are being told they have to use it so just using it to tick a box.

 

This hopefully will then increase confidence in ICT and have other knocks ons e.g. people word processing their reports!!

 

Not identifying area too much but southern England.