What wireless AP?

[CHR1S]

Right, I’m after some ideas at what APs to get, we currently run some D-Link APs (DWL-2000AP+) that are about 4 to 5 years old lol! They struggle with more than 3 laptops trying to log on and provide frequent drop outs.

 

We can’t afford to spend a large amount on them so no managed solutions so I would like your ideas on what alternatives we have.

 

They/it needs to support up to 30 laptops (in case we buy more) and allow them all to log on at the same time without a minor miracle with as few drop outs (if any) as possible.

 

This needs to be a simple solution that is teacher/pupil friendly as I’m only in the school 2 days a week.

 

Thanks

 

Chris

Edited February 26, 2009 by CHR1S
Added AP Model

[Michael]

My favourite APs are HP 10AG's. Here are the specs.

 

Realistically you should be looking at 2 or more APs for 30 laptops. Trimming down roaming profiles or using mandatory profiles can also speed things up. You should also look at positioning APs all around school (depending on your requirements) for the best results.

[SimpleSi]

The only AP setup that's worked successfully for me are some Buffalo APs that I bought about 1 year ago (not bought any since so don't know if current models would be jsut as good and I had problems with the orig 11b ones 5 years ago so YMMV

 

I have one per class, cycle between using channels 1, 6 and 11 in 2 schools and they work absolutely fine with a bank of 15 laptops (Fujitsu's) *

 

(I do ICT TA in one of the schools so I know they work )

 

Take about 30 mins to configure (they can be used as routers as well so you have to change their mode into simple AP)

 

The only problem with such a setup is that if we got 2 banks or laptops, I'd expect to add another AP to each room which would start to cause channel overlap problems maybe and I'd expect to have to use 2 different SSIDs to load balance each bank of laptops.

 

But its a value for money start at £50/AP

 

regards

 

Simon

 

* one Fujitsu laptop (diff model from rest) wouldn't work with Windows Zero Config and I've had to use the mickey mouse utility wireless utility that I normally disable - so I blame the laptop and not the AP

[jamin100]

Chris, Chek your PM - Ruckus!

 

edit - just saw you dont want a managed solution. You can come and see how our dlink's handle the laptops if you need to

[localzuk]

I would be looking at using 3 per bank of 30 myself, as 8 is usually the maximum that is recommended on a single AP (so, I'd still be going over that limit).

 

How about some HP 420's? We have a few here for our random hotspots, and they're solid work horses.

[jamin100]

I would be looking at using 3 per bank of 30 myself, as 8 is usually the maximum that is recommended on a single AP (so, I'd still be going over that limit).

 

 

We have 2 AP's serving 15 laptops - and still get slow logons (3-4 minutes)

[CHR1S]

We have 2 AP's serving 15 laptops - and still get slow logons (3-4 minutes)

 

I wish we just had slow logons, its the drop outs that affect us more. Im going to push for a better investment I think, if they wish to increase our laptops then the infrastructure has to be in place.

 

Thanks for your help everyone

[CHR1S]

Actually out of interest, what is the best way to allocate an AP to specific laptops? Different SSID and Channel or something else?

[jamin100]

Here's how our current system works.

 

Each AP is on a different channel. I believe channels 1,6 and 11 dont overlap each other.

 

I have then given each AP a different name. AP1, AP2 etc.

 

I then set 8 of the laptops to connect to AP1 and the other 7 to connect to AP2 . .

 

At the moment I do have the AP's teamed to work together but not sure that your older AP's will be able to do it or not.

[CHR1S]

Thats pretty much how I was and would be doing it, unless anyone else has any other ideas of how to do it?

 

Here's how our current system works.

 

Each AP is on a different channel. I believe channels 1,6 and 11 dont overlap each other.

 

I have then given each AP a different name. AP1, AP2 etc.

 

I then set 8 of the laptops to connect to AP1 and the other 7 to connect to AP2 . .

 

At the moment I do have the AP's teamed to work together but not sure that your older AP's will be able to do it or not.

[SimpleSi]

Actually out of interest, what is the best way to allocate an AP to specific laptops? Different SSID and Channel or something else?

 

Assuming one AP can handle all laptops within its coverage area then same SSID as no administration needed.

 

So in my case - one AP can handle 15 laptops - oonly got one bank of 15 laptops so all APs on one SSID , differnet channels (1,6 or 11).

 

If you need multiple APs to handle your bank of laptops then you need different SSIDs for each pair or triplet so that any one laptop only connects to a particular SSID.

 

Or some APs (don't know about Buffalo's but I'd guess probably do) will let you assign specific MAC addresses to connect to them so you could use that method and go back to one SSID.

 

regards

 

Simon

 

Certain people say you can put all your APs on one freq but its not what most would recommend

[SimpleSi]

BTW - when one AP goes wrong - its a nightmare to fault find when they are all using the same SSID - be warned

 

regards

 

Simon

[MicrodigitUK]

I know its managed but have you looked at the price of the NETGEAR WFS709TP ProSafe Wireless system?

[IanT]

Managed systems we looked at cost too much.......

 

Im getting aload of 3Com 7760's soon to replace my old ones.

 

Got 1 atm testing and excellent.

[SimpleSi]

I know its managed but have you looked at the price of the NETGEAR WFS709TP ProSafe Wireless system?

 

Another poster today says he wants rid of his netgear because it won't handle 30 laptops

 

regards

 

Simon

[steveg]

I've just (about 10 mins ago!) got a quote for a managed system for a small school, using a netgear controller. The controller is £1165, and each of the access points are £86 - these are dual band a/g points, if you just want g they are a little cheaper. The controller supports up to 16 points, and has 8 poe sockets.

 

If you dont want to go down the managed solution, i've found the netgear wg302's to be very good, supporting 15 - 20 laptops on 1 point.

 

Steve

[Dos_Box]

My Ruckus kit landed yesterday, and I'm now in love

[jamin100]

My Ruckus kit landed yesterday, and I'm now in love

 

I trialed it before half term . . just cant spend any money until April..

 

It just works! 100%

 

I think it'll make a huge difference to the perception of ICT amoung the teaching staff.

[steveg]

Does the Ruckus kit require a physical cable connection to each access point, or does it work over ip? Roughly what sort of cost is it?

[Dos_Box]

Its a centrally managed system. You simply plug in the receivers into your LAN and the Zone Director box picks them up and configures them automatically. For pricing you'd have to ask Net-Ctrl as they arranged for EduGeek to have our very own setup to rave about (which isn't hard to do as it's very rave-able). All your clients see is one network which they can roam around should they wish. There are lots of funky features such as AD authentication instead of WEP keys etc, the ability to have 'Guest' access where visitors can have internet access but not be able to see any of your network (this works straight from the box BTW). I think the system we were given, a Zone Director 1000 and 2 Zone Flex receivers\transmitters comes to about £800-ish. After that you simply add more Zone Flex units to expand your network. Obviously there is a limit (which I can't remember right now) to the amount of transmitters you can add per box, but they cover a hell of an area!

[CHR1S]

I must say, the more I look into this the more a managed solution seems the better route. Especially with the costs that people are telling me.

[SimpleSi]

I think the system we were given, a Zone Director 1000 and 2 Zone Flex receivers\transmitters comes to about £800-ish.

 

I think that's a special price for you

 

I think to expect something twice the price for us normal people

 

regards

 

Simon

[MarkPower]

I think that's a special price for you

 

I think to expect something twice the price for us normal people

 

regards

 

Simon

 

Must confess we have given the kit to Chris and Edugeek as a good will gesture due to all your support, this way you can benefit at all your events with Wifi.

 

The costs he has quoted are a little low but still it is a cost effective solution and well within most budgets please call me or email ref prices and I will be happy to share them with you.

 

Cheers

 

Mark

[john]

Another happy Ruckus person here, just awaiting the knodd from above to replace the non-managed wifi with a Ruckus one (so fingers crossed for April!!) The kit is out of this world and very much worth it and if you think its just a few members raving about it talk to Mark and get him to send you some on eval and see for yourself!

[rleggett]

WiFi uses a collision mechanism to control access to "the air" (csma/cd)

This means that devices must first listen to the air, they may transmit if they hear that no one else is transmitting, they must then listen to see if any other device decided to transmit at the same time, and if they did then a collision has occurred, the packets become corrupt and are wasted.The devices must retransmit the packets.

 

WIth few devices there are few collisions and few wasted packets.

As you get more devices on an AP there are exponentially more collisions, and exponentially more wasted bandwidth.

 

A wi-fi network with 10 devices on an AP may be 5% efficient.

 

In a class environment the teacher says "log-in" this is a command for all devices to transmit at once, the result is a storm of collisions, retransmissions, more collisions.

Edited February 26, 2009 by MkII
PM sent re edugeek sponsorhip