bossman Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 @mattx: Behave yourself you've made me wet myself (spilt me tea laughing so much) :D
alexknight Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 Self satisfied anacedotal evidence - just as I predicted. I've earned my self satisfaction, and it gives me a lovbel;y warm feeling just thinking about it. Until you've lived these kids lives it isn't very fair to make judgement. Sure there are lazy people but I'm proud that I live in a country where I have the freedom not to work if I don't want to and the chance to work and achieve if I do. I've earned my right to make judgement, getting an even warmer feeling now Of course the system will be abused. What are you suggesting? We take it away? Yep, after a certain amount of time. People that can work should, of course they should but you've got to see it as a complicated issue not as a Daily Mail headline. I see a Godwins law moment coming Just my opinion. Alex
mattx Posted January 14, 2009 Author Posted January 14, 2009 I see a Godwins law moment coming Give it a few more pages.......
localzuk Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 I don't get all this talk about 'areas of high unemployment'. I moved 400 miles for my job. Are people so stuck on staying with the familiar that they would rather not have a job and a decent future? And as someone else has said - smoking, drinking etc... are not necessities of life. However, as alex has said, I also have sympathy for those who can't work - illness, disability etc... Those are the people who I am 100% in support of helping financially.
Guest Guest Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 @j17sparky: There are second chances and second chances, my wife works amongst this won't work can't work culture trying to help give them a second chance and do you know, they get chance after chance after chance and then they blame the system. It is the same world for all of us some have it easy some hard but the opportunities are still there if you want them, but most of this work shy culture don't want it, oh yes they make out that they want work but that is all. It becomes a pattern of their failings is everybody else's fault and not theirs, blame someone else culture cos if there's blame there's a claim (sorry bad joke but true). j17sparky: this is not personal just from years of watching this country go down the pan just like America. Oh i dont take it personally, dont worry. And even i at age 25 can remember a time where if you wanted something then you earned it, saved up for months, etc... and you had no-one but yourself to blame. I know there are people who take the mick but there are also genuine cases. My mate, qualified plumber at 18, couldnt find a job when he left college even though he volentered to work for free, ended up working in factories with me. Does he not deserve a 2nd chance at training? The govt. certainly didnt think so. Hes now working as a class 1 HGV driver, trained up by his company, so hes fell in lucky. Got his foot in the door by "who he knew" rather than "what he knew". Hes now earning the princly sum of £19k pa doing an average of around 55hours per week! It just annoys me when people make blankett statements based on their own very limited experiances. They seem to forget that they are 1 in 50odd million people living in the UK, so chances are their experiances are going to be very different from someone living in another part of the country.
Guest Guest Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 (edited) I don't get all this talk about 'areas of high unemployment'. I moved 400 miles for my job. Are people so stuck on staying with the familiar that they would rather not have a job and a decent future? Most people do find moving towns hard. Well done you but may i ask, did you move 400 miles without a penny to your name and no job to go to, or did you have enough to get yourself going? Now im not assuming you are in either of these catagories but someone with a car, a few bob to their name and a supporting family to fall back on is very different to someone without a 2p to scratch their ass with. Again just because it was like so for you.... You could have ended up on the street with no job and no money to get back to your home town. Edited January 14, 2009 by Guest
apoth0r Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 Local, which is what i've been trying to say all along. There aren't any excuses, if you want to work there is something in this country that you will be able to find. There's nothing in this world without some sacrifice and i'm afraid sometimes you just have to take it on the chin. I'd rather not be having to wrap up warm and walk 2 miles to the bus station for a 35 minute bus ride and another mile walk to get to and from work everyday, but I do because I WANT to work :-)
bossman Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 Oh i dont take it personally, dont worry. It just annoys me when people make blankett statements based on their own very limited experiances. They seem to forget that they are 1 in 50odd million people living in the UK, so chances are their experiances are going to be very different from someone living in another part of the country. I don't make blanket statements just goose feather and down quilt ones guaranteed 100% experience and experience only from all parts of the world. And no other country (not even America) gives a damn about their work shy sub culture as much as England and our p*ss p**r band of politicians who are only out for themselves. ;)
jamesb Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 Sure there are lazy people but I'm proud that I live in a country where I have the freedom not to work if I don't want to and the chance to work and achieve if I do. And as someone who chooses to work and achieve surely I should have the freedom to spend my money as I wish and not see it pay for the lifestyles of those who can't be bothered to work? I have no problem paying for those who are out of work for a short time, or who are actually unable to work, but as far as I'm concerned if someone's choosing not to work then they can also choose to not have any money. 2
jamesb Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 Most people do find moving towns hard. Well done you but may i ask, did you move 400 miles without a penny to your name and no job to go to, or did you have enough to get yourself going? 160 miles, and all I had was a van, a couple of months car insurance, one suit and a job to start. I borrowed from the bank so that I could afford to put down a months rent on a rather pathetic place, and scraped until now when I can afford to rent a nice little house, and pay my own way.
localzuk Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 Most people do find moving towns hard. Well done you but may i ask, did you move 400 miles without a penny to your name and no job to go to, or did you have enough to get yourself going? Now im not assuming you are in either of these catagories but someone with a car, a few bob to their name and a supporting family to fall back on is very different to someone without a 2p to scratch their ass with. Again just because it was like so for you.... You could have ended up on the street with no job and no money to get back to your home town. I was £20k in debt. Had to borrow money from friends and family to get down here for the interview, and then again to move here. And I found a job first - ie. got an interview, got offered a job, then moved. Moving, then finding a job would be a silly thing to do!!
Guest Guest Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 I was £20k in debt. Had to borrow money from friends and family to get down here for the interview, and then again to move here. And I found a job first - ie. got an interview, got offered a job, then moved. Moving, then finding a job would be a silly thing to do!! Thats my point, you cant move first. You took a chance and it payed off. What would have happened if you hadnt got the job; you would have ended up in an extra £250s worth of debt and be no further forward...
bossman Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 Thats my point, you cant move first. You took a chance and it payed off. What would have happened if you hadnt got the job; you would have ended up in an extra £250s worth of debt and be no further forward... I had to move first as I was having to earn to live and if i had no job then i had no house or flat or food it's a little like which comes first "the chicken or the egg" there is no real answer but if you have no one else to support you then you have to do it or you go hungry and don't have the creature comforts that so many of these work shy people need before they will even contemplate looking for work (cos they have it too bl**dy easy) if they are fit to work then lets get them working for their benefits.
Guest Guest Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 160 miles, and all I had was a van, a couple of months car insurance, one suit and a job to start. I borrowed from the bank so that I could afford to put down a months rent on a rather pathetic place, and scraped until now when I can afford to rent a nice little house, and pay my own way. Which i far more than the 2 people in question have, well im assuming anyway, and probably 90% of people on the dole too. Remember now the cost of car insurance for a young person, especially a male, is out of this world. My friend payed £2500 for his first car at age 18 iirc, and that was for a 1.2 clio! (Bad area = silly premium) I had to move first as I was having to earn to live and if i had no job then i had no house or flat or food it's a little like which comes first "the chicken or the egg" there is no real answer but if you have no one else to support you then you have to do it or you go hungry and don't have the creature comforts that so many of these work shy people need before they will even contemplate looking for work (cos they have it too bl**dy easy) if they are fit to work then lets get them working for their benefits. Which leads back to my original point; if you have a roof over your head, food in your belly... You cant really knock people who dont want to take the chance of ending up sleeping in some back ally, all for the sake of an extra £20pw more than they were on the doll.
mattx Posted January 14, 2009 Author Posted January 14, 2009 Which leads back to my original point; if you have a roof over your head, food in your belly... You cant really knock people who dont want to take the chance of ending up sleeping in some back ally, all for the sake of an extra £20pw more than they were on the doll. Fine, but then to bitch that they can't be bothered to find work or be able to afford the Mobile phone, ciggies, jewelry and trips to the cafe........... There is a job there, one which will teach you LIFE skills, one which may offer a pension, one which may offer more training, one which may offer further opportunities, one which may make you feel better about yourself and may actually rub off on immediate family and friends but, if they would rather DO NOTHING apart from moan, talk on their mobile, smoke, enjoy their bling and fantasize about being on EastEnders....... If you can't be bothered to work, then this country should not be bothered to pay you anything. 2
localzuk Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 Which i far more than the 2 people in question have, well im assuming anyway, and probably 90% of people on the dole too. Remember now the cost of car insurance for a young person, especially a male, is out of this world. My friend payed £2500 for his first car at age 18 iirc, and that was for a 1.2 clio! (Bad area = silly premium) Use a train. Which leads back to my original point; if you have a roof over your head, food in your belly... You cant really knock people who dont want to take the chance of ending up sleeping in some back ally, all for the sake of an extra £20pw more than they were on the doll. It isn't just about getting an extra £20. Life is risky, whatever you do. It is about taking those risks to get yourself on an upwards spiral. Sure, it may only be £20pw extra now, but 5 years down the line, it might be £80pw extra... Thats my point, you cant move first. You took a chance and it payed off. What would have happened if you hadnt got the job; you would have ended up in an extra £250s worth of debt and be no further forward... Yes, it is necessary to take risks. I took a risk moving down here, it cost my my girlfriend, and put me further in debt, but it paid off.
Guest Guest Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 It isn't just about getting an extra £20. Life is risky, whatever you do. It is about taking those risks to get yourself on an upwards spiral. Sure, it may only be £20pw extra now, but 5 years down the line, it might be £80pw extra... Yes, it is necessary to take risks. I took a risk moving down here, it cost my my girlfriend, and put me further in debt, but it paid off. That it is. I took a "risk" in doing an apprentiship in my current school. It paid off in the short time, i am yet to see in the long term - there just isnt many jobs in my field where i live. Like you i may end up having to move. But its fair to say we are far more intelligent than those 2 people. Its hard enough, never mind if you were thick as 2 short planks and had no skill. Like ive tried to stress, i dont like condon people on the dole, but to say anyone can do it (whatever "it" may be; relocate, retrain, etc) just because ive managed to with my circumstances, my upbringing, in my town, is a very simplistic view.
torledo Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 I had to move first as I was having to earn to live and if i had no job then i had no house or flat or food it's a little like which comes first "the chicken or the egg" there is no real answer but if you have no one else to support you then you have to do it or you go hungry and don't have the creature comforts that so many of these work shy people need before they will even contemplate looking for work (cos they have it too bl**dy easy) if they are fit to work then lets get them working for their benefits. Never mind working for benefits, how about they borrow their benefits in the form of a loan. You can be indignant all you like unless you address the desperate inequalities and the absence of social mobility for those IN employment there's no point going off on one at those on benefits. All this overachievement i'm reading is great an all but aren't we all being subsidised by the real wealth creators [if there are any left] in the private sector. How would we like it if they had a go at us for being parasites, parasites with annual increments they could call us. Would that be fair ?
torledo Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 Use a train. It isn't just about getting an extra £20. Life is risky, whatever you do. It is about taking those risks to get yourself on an upwards spiral. Sure, it may only be £20pw extra now, but 5 years down the line, it might be £80pw extra... Yes, it is necessary to take risks. I took a risk moving down here, it cost my my girlfriend, and put me further in debt, but it paid off. How the hell did you/will you pay off that 20k debt if going from £20pw to £80 pw in 5 years is the limits of your upward spiral.....but that's the reality of the situation and yet we talk about 'progression'. Yet it's a measly progression that promises a reward for the tens of thousands of pounds accrued in debts from university/training that the reward is to materialise at some point in the future.....at the same time people will be thinking about getting married or starting a family or they'd put that off becuase of their debts or becuase they can't get a mortage on a place as housing increases overinflate compared to wage increases. Risks don't work out for everyone, and the opportunities aren't sufficiently widespread for everyone to be a success story.......not everyone has that drive and ambition and misfortune can derail the best laid plans. You cannot force success and ambition on someone by making them work for benefits or by creating bogus job opportunities......and their are a lot of bogus jobs in our false economy.
torledo Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 DO NOTHING apart from moan, . Err, it's you who's the one moaning.... Seeing as you started this thread....
IanT Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 I've just seen this thread and watched that video.................I'm sick and tired paying for all thes lay abouts...............I hear the same old thing..........i cant find a job! its hard............crap total crap! get off your ass get out there, posting cv's, internet sending cv's local papers, high street! THERE IS WORK out there just get off your @ss and do it!! my hard earned cash goes to u lazy people! :mad:
MkII Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 Wowser.. excellent thread. ok get yer tissues ready... I was unemployed for 2 years when I finally left education at 19. It was absolute misery. Every day the same, weekends were no different to week days. Degraded, depressed and seemingly no way out. I was given a lot of chances and opportunities from the odd person that cared that helped me crawl out of the situation. The depression took about 8 years to finally go. And I stuck at a job way longer than I should purely because I was **** scared of not working. By about 28 I picked up my life again. I consider the years wasted. It amazed me at the time.. some people can put up with/ survive unemployment. My sister in law has never worked a day in her life. She's worked having children for benefits very well. She lives in a community where everyone does the same it seems. They learn from each other how to play the system. I would say she's able to do exactly the same as my family do and mostly better when it comes to possessions, and it seems unjust. When the Head Teacher offered me the IT job at the school he offered me less than I would get on benefits. I told him so and he offered over the amount luckily. Amazing posts today j17sparky. Respect.
stratisphere Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 (edited) My view of this is rather simple. I'm too proud. I want to earn my money. I realise people have their stories/reasons/excuses (delete as needed) but there is always a way, even in the worst of areas. Half of your stories have proven that. I really hate the fact that I get taxed out my ass each month in everything that I pay... only for half of it (anyone actually got any figures?) to go on people who are faking it or cba. Yes some people have real reasons, but like carl said in that interview, he knows people who fake being ill and have kids early on just to sponge. Takes the royal p*ss tbh. Why the hell should I work my fingers to the bones (or mind to the skull in this case) for some lazy goit to fund his/her baccy addiction/jewlery fetish or their elevenses. -------- Edit: I said elevenses because i felt saying breakfast would be misinterpreted as i'm a mean b*tard who wants people to starve Edited January 14, 2009 by stratisphere Clarification 2
IanT Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 My view of this is rather simple. I'm too proud. I want to earn my money. I realise people have their stories/reasons/excuses (delete as needed) but there is always a way, even in the worst of areas. Half of your stories have proven that. I really hate the fact that I get taxed out my ass each month in everything that I pay... only for half of it (anyone actually got any figures?) to go on people who are faking it or cba. Yes some people have real reasons, but like carl said in that interview, he knows people who fake being ill and have kids early on just to sponge. Takes the royal p*ss tbh. Why the hell should I work my fingers to the bones (or mind to the skull in this case) for some lazy goit to fund his/her baccy addiction/jewlery fetish or their elevenses. -------- Edit: I said elevenses because i felt saying breakfast would be misinterpreted as i'm a mean b*tard who wants people to starve I agree! Spot on!
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