mattx Posted December 31, 2008 Posted December 31, 2008 As usual the press report the crap side of the New Year Honours list. They have been given to people for ' Doing Their Job ' They may as well just stick em up my bum for all their worth these days.....
torledo Posted December 31, 2008 Posted December 31, 2008 Apparently the chief of staff of the treasury got a knighthood. HE started his job in 2005 about the time the powers that be managed to screw the economy up good and proper between then and 2008 for the 2008 credit crisis to have such a huge impact. Nice work if you can get it. Proof that in the UK we like to reward failure. Wonder if i'm as crap at my job as this guy my boss will recommend me for an MBE in next years list.
leco Posted December 31, 2008 Posted December 31, 2008 Something else we are rather good at in this country - seeing the negative side of everything. There is nothing wrong with rewarding someone for 'doing their job' if they have done it as well as Chris Hoy, or as well as the youth worker from Bradford, or indeed Chris Hoy's mum and all the other 'ordinary' people. Granted they don't all command the media headlines, but then they didn't when 'doing their job'. Whatever the opinion of the honours system, please don't let cynicism overshadow recognition of the positives.
mattx Posted December 31, 2008 Author Posted December 31, 2008 please don't let cynicism overshadow recognition of the positives. Why not ? The system is a complete and utter joke. Give them to people who deserve them. Hamilton who I agree is an excellent F1 Driver - why the hell does he have one ? He does not EVEN LIVE IN THE COUNTRY as he does not like paying the Tax YOU AND ME have to. As Jim Royal would say - New Year Honours - My ARSE..... 1
torledo Posted December 31, 2008 Posted December 31, 2008 Something else we are rather good at in this country - seeing the negative side of everything. There is nothing wrong with rewarding someone for 'doing their job' if they have done it as well as Chris Hoy, or as well as the youth worker from Bradford, or indeed Chris Hoy's mum and all the other 'ordinary' people. Granted they don't all command the media headlines, but then they didn't when 'doing their job'. Whatever the opinion of the honours system, please don't let cynicism overshadow recognition of the positives. Leaving aside the honours system for a minute, forgive me if i'm cynical about a civil servant most people have never heard of getting paid nearly 200k a year while the rest of us struggle buy on 1/10th of that.....and how exactly do people like him contribute to our well being ?? If anything through the mismanagement of the incumbent administration they make things worse. As for the lollipop lady and the other unsung heroes.....great, good luck to them. But if i were a low paid, unsung hero [tabloid speak] a knighthood or an MBE or an OBE would only be useful if i could sell it. And actually get a decent standard of living through cold, hard cash rather than a token gesture that gives you some letters after your name. How's that for cynical ?
GrumbleDook Posted December 31, 2008 Posted December 31, 2008 Terry Pratchett ... a knighthood is truly deserved. Just because he writes books? No, because as well as doing the job he does better than many other people in the world, he has also been a tireless worker to raise the awareness of sufferers of Alzheimer's. Many of the sports stars not only get there honours because they are the *best* at their job, but as recognition for the years of dedication they have put into the sport and the work they are presently doing (and will do even more when retired from the sport) with community groups and bringing support for UK sport. Do I think the system is perfect? No. Do I think that we should not belittle those that deserve it just because we don't agree with others that get them? No. Do I think that many are political and we have no control over them but we should be grateful that a chunk of them are truly deserved? Yes. Seriously folks ... no matter how much we can rant and rave about how this or that civil servant gets a gong, I support the local bobby who has been in the job for 30 years and still has a smile on his face when walking the beat and is willing to spend time with support change to the youth system (he got an MBE a few years back and is now Chair of Governors at a local school), or the soldier who had a flash of inspiration and was able to lock down communications during the first Gulf War (OBE and is now a recruiting officer) or the many people who do their job because they have pride in it, no matter how poorly paid it is, or how demeaning people may think it is (care worker in a respite centre for 25 years who often failed to take wages so the centre would not go bust). All people I know and support and would happily support them getting another gong for continuing to do the work they do. 3
mattx Posted December 31, 2008 Author Posted December 31, 2008 Many of the sports stars not only get there honours because they are the *best* at their job, but as recognition for the years of dedication they have put into the sport and the work they are presently doing (and will do even more when retired from the sport) with community groups and bringing support for UK sport. So what ? There are plenty of other hard working people out there who do MORE than them and for NO money. Just because they can swim well, cycle fast and drive a F1 car - so what ? Do I think that we should not belittle those that deserve it just because we don't agree with others that get them? I do, it's part of living in a democracy [ well sort of, without the police or edugeek police sticking their oar in ] There are far more deserving people in this country who should get this sort of recognition, not 'sports stars' who have already had their five mins of fame. But just look at the family who are giving these things out.... They are the most dysfunctional family in the country, overpaid, inbred spongers who wouldn't know what a hard days work is.
GrumbleDook Posted December 31, 2008 Posted December 31, 2008 A lot of the honours system has faults, but the stuff the Royal Family does they would do anyway without all to the other stuff that goes on, the same way that organisations like the Masons or Rotary Club will honour friends and supporters. The Royal Family don't actually get that involved with choosing most of the honours awarded, it is done by political committee and those 'real people' who gets honours are done so based on support from external people. Forget the sports stars and so on for a moment, consider that these honours are nominated by the people who have benefited from the support an individual may have given and this is the community rewarding them by putting them forward. Still ... as you say, it is a democracy and we have difference os opinion on it. I am happy to support the system and the change it needs to make it less political.
witch Posted December 31, 2008 Posted December 31, 2008 I do, it's part of living in a democracy [ well sort of, without the police or edugeek police sticking their oar in ] If this IS a democracy, then we can ALL stick our oar in whether you like it or not! When my father received an award, (Lieutenant of the Victorian Order, since you ask) he was told that these are pretty much the only ones that the Queen awards herself - all the others are decided by various politicians and commitees. Whilst you do have some valid points, doesn't it get exhausting being SO angry all the time? Happy New Year
john Posted December 31, 2008 Posted December 31, 2008 I must admit that I do think its becoming very political and that there is not enough made of the "unsung" heros such as the examples given above such as police personel, lollypop people etc there should be more singing about those. I am all for people getting them but I do feel that too many are given to people for just being them and not doing that extra bit. I have nothing against, for example the Terry Pratchett one he does a lot of active work for his charity stuff which is great, but others in sports world yes they sign a few books and turn up to a few places and stick there name on a poster but thats it and its only so they look good in a lot of cases, I say reward those that do hard work like people that give up hours a week to support local small charities, run after school clubs, voluenteer to do events and such.
torledo Posted December 31, 2008 Posted December 31, 2008 Seriously folks ... no matter how much we can rant and rave about how this or that civil servant gets a gong I think it's a little more than 'this and that' over the years. I believe there's been a fair few knighthoods for senior civil servants, including [sir] John Bourne, he of the junket who was supposed to be in charge of the national audit office. Although he may have received the knighthood before his time at the NAO. So in all honesty my opinion is that it's a nice little sideshow to encourage a little debate about who deserves what, a nice little ego massafe for those in political and business circles after a careers service doing god knows what ......and if the 'unsung heroes' of the awards feel pride in receiving the honour as i said good luck. It's nice for them to get the recognition. But to me the whole thing is an anachronism and while i don't begrudge anyone their award i just don't see the point. Surely the recognition is in either excelling in one's field of specialism i.e winning an olympic gold or affecting change in a career spanning 20-30 years. That's the real honour, not a Sir or some letters after a name and a bit of press coverage.
mattx Posted December 31, 2008 Author Posted December 31, 2008 Whilst you do have some valid points, doesn't it get exhausting being SO angry all the time? I'm not angry - as for being exhausting ? Naaa just expressing my views. Lieutenant of the Victorian Order, since you ask I didn't ask.
witch Posted January 1, 2009 Posted January 1, 2009 I didn't ask. Ohh dear - that was the point - I was being ironic as I knew you wouldn't ask given your views on awards and the like.....sorry - I'll try not to be so subtle in future
mattx Posted January 1, 2009 Author Posted January 1, 2009 Ohh dear - that was the point - I was being ironic as I knew you wouldn't ask given your views on awards and the like.....sorry - I'll try not to be so subtle in future Were you ? I didn't notice. As for being subtle - better luck next time, it needs a little pratice.
torledo Posted January 1, 2009 Posted January 1, 2009 Ohh dear - that was the point - I was being ironic as I knew you wouldn't ask given your views on awards and the like.....sorry - I'll try not to be so subtle in future You ? Subtle ? Now where's the smiley i'm looking for, ah yes here it is....
mattx Posted January 1, 2009 Author Posted January 1, 2009 You ? Subtle ? Now where's the smiley i'm looking for, ah yes here it is.... Maybe a new years resolution is in order for Witch.... Pratice Pratice !!!!!
witch Posted January 1, 2009 Posted January 1, 2009 Maybe a new years resolution is in order for Witch.... Pratice Pratice !!!!! And for you....spelling lessons would be good I would hate to see all your pearls of wisdom ignored just because no one can understand your rather idiosyncratic spelling.
MkII Posted January 1, 2009 Posted January 1, 2009 The only worthwhile reward is the one not awarded. If you think of it like that the clever/ dumb balance is restored.
mattx Posted January 1, 2009 Author Posted January 1, 2009 And for you....spelling lessons would be good I would hate to see all your pearls of wisdom ignored just because no one can understand your rather idiosyncratic spelling. Noting wrong with my spilling. I'd like to leave you with one thought Witch...unfortunately I ain't sure you have anywhere to put it...
GrumbleDook Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 Folks, play nice ... We all have differences of opinion, no need to drag it all down! (and no 'he started it / she started it / it started it' follow-ups please!) 1
Trapper Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 Once again the vast majority seem to be going to Civil Servants. Nice to see the Permanent Secretary to the Treasury's knighthood has come up with the rations, despite the fact we are in a recession. All the cries that Labour has tried to make the Honours System more inclusive for the whole population. Sounds like nothing has changed since Yes, Minister.
tech_guy Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 Yes, I think my local binmen should all be knighted - they work bloody hard, have to put up with abuse from people who don't/can't understand the new collection/recycling system, and will take stuff away for myself and my neighbours even though they shouldn't. One guy has been doing the bins for the last twenty-odd years - now in my book that's worthy of some sort of recognition.
srochford Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 Once again the vast majority seem to be going to Civil Servants. I'd guess it depends on what you mean by "civil servants" and "vast majority" 70% of the awards this time went to "local heroes undertaking outstanding work in their own communities"; 39% of the total are for people working in voluntary and local services. Obviously, some of those will be civil servants but I don't see it as the vast majority. If you feel that the wrong people are getting honoured or you think your local binmen etc should get an award then do something about it. The details of how to make a nomination are on the web site and there's even a YouTube channel with more info.
localzuk Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 I think people are just looking at the most publicised ones that the media grab hold of. Why would the mass media publish details of Joe Bloggs, the baker who saved kittens etc...? They won't. Mass media for the mass audience. Also, those of you saying things about civil servants... technically, those of us working in LEA schools are also civil servants. As are any bin-men who still work for a council. Seems like a lot of sour grapes to me.
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