CCTV in School Toilets

[Millgate_Jon]

Hi Everyone

 

Was shocked to read this just now:

 

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/school-slammed-installing-cctv-deterrent-pupil-toilets-clamp-down-vaping/

 

I know there are always things to consider that I`m not aware of however......please don`t put CCTV in toilets - it`s not a good way to stop kids vaping...........

 

We`ve got our fleet of Halo sensors available for onsite trials and demo`s if you are curious about their capabilities....

 

With anti-bullying measures, aggression policies, crowding/loitering alerts - they do a lot more than detect vape molecules!

 

Just drop me a line, happy to help.

 

Thanks

 

Jon.

[synaesthesia]

It's only as shocking as people make out, usually parents who have so little idea of what happens in schools. From a GDPR perspective, I would happily argue that a Halo/Verkada/Anyothersensor is more invasive than CCTV.

[nicholab]

Why do we have so many stupid naughty kids that can’t follow rules? Can’t you deploy prefects to patrol the toilets at lunch time? First school I worked in the prefects were like private security.

 

I also think that placement of CCTV units would be fine as long as there not covering the urinals. This would be a non issue in the female toilet as everything is contained in a cubical.

 

I also think all schools should move to open plan toilets. So the sink is open plan and the cubical is were the private business happens. We then had CCTV and crooning music playing making for very pleasant toilets.

 

I also heard of Girls using the toilet to eat their lunch in which sounds disgusting. I mean I suppose the boys at the school I attended were stupid putting the soap in the urinals. I never understood why people can’t let a basic human requirement happen with out issue. We all got to go and some point so why spoil it?

Edited January 10, 2025 by nicholab

[synaesthesia]

Why do we have so many stupid naughty kids that can’t follow rules? Can’t you deploy prefects to patrol the toilets at lunch time? First school I worked in the prefects were like private security.

 

Most schools don't have silver spoons

[nicholab]

This was a state run Grammar school. I did think that was the idea of prefects to have extra personal?

 

Also don’t these pupils realise they will not get merits towards certificates and Brozne, Silver and Gold achievements?

Edited January 10, 2025 by nicholab

[synaesthesia]

Not very common any more as far as I'm aware. I suspect any state school within a 50 mile radius of us, prefects would be the ones having their heads flushed by a load of vaping, weed smoking hooligans.

[Steve101]

Hi Everyone

Was shocked to read this just now:

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/school-slammed-installing-cctv-deterrent-pupil-toilets-clamp-down-vaping/

I know there are always things to consider that I`m not aware of however......please don`t put CCTV in toilets - it`s not a good way to stop kids vaping...........

We`ve got our fleet of Halo sensors available for onsite trials and demo`s if you are curious about their capabilities....

With anti-bullying measures, aggression policies, crowding/loitering alerts - they do a lot more than detect vape molecules!

Just drop me a line, happy to help.

Thanks

Jon.

 

I don't understand why you, and parents / news articles are insinuating the cctv is literally in the cubicles.. there is no mention of this.

 

Don't advise schools to not put cctv in toilets, it's perfectly acceptable as long as the toilets are to the new standard i.e.. Shared use with enclosed cubicles and communal sink area. No camera should be pointing inwards of the cubicles.

[PotNoodleTech]

You make it sound like they've put them in the cubicles.

 

When it is done. It's usually in the communal hand washing area or simply covering the front door in and out. Exacty the same as say a motorway services or football stadium which you (and your wives/sons/daughters) happily use day in day out without you kicking up a big quibble.

 

Your post reads as simply an advertisment for halo vape sensors. CCTV can assist with a totally different set of issues (bullying/safeguarding/health and safety/wellbeing)

 

We haven't done it inside the washrooms here but we do have cameras in the main corridors covering the main door in and out of each washroom as it's pretty essential.

[nicholab]

I don't understand why you, and parents / news articles are insinuating the cctv is literally in the cubicles.. there is no mention of this.

 

Don't advise schools to not put cctv in toilets, it's perfectly acceptable as long as the toilets are to the new standard i.e.. Shared use with enclosed cubicles and communal sink area. No camera should be pointing inwards of the cubicles.

 

Why can’t you point at a cubicle door if it a good tall one that come very low. How do you know exact who caused the vandalism?

 

Also most toilets even if toilet are not to the new stand you can generally put a camera not over looking the private area.

[Steve101]

Why can’t you point at a cubicle door if it a good tall one that come very low. How do you know exact who caused the vandalism?

 

Also most toilets even if toilet are not to the new stand you can generally put a camera not over looking the private area.

 

You can have the door in the shot, just not viewing of the toilet inside. Usually Vandalism can be narrowed down to a set time frame.

[nicholab]

You can have the door in the shot, just not viewing of the toilet inside. Usually Vandalism can be narrowed down to a set time frame.

 

That exactly what I meant. Outside of door ok as long as that all you can see.

[CHiLL]

I've worked in a school that has cameras in the toilets and we eventually plan to do this in my current school. We have open-plan toilets with the cubicles all in a line and the idea is to have the camera mounted at the entrance of the toilets, looking down the corridor of cubicles. This would mean that the camera cannot see inside the cubicles, but can see who enters and leaves. The idea is that if vandalism or vaping occurs and we have a rough time period, the footage can be checked to see who was in the area during those times.

[Chockster]

The CCTV looking at our toilet communal areas (from the corridor outside) that we put in last summer has helped resolve two cases of bullying/violence, which resulted in permanent exclusions.

[HC_Netman]

We installed CCTV in our toilets and we provided a still image to parents showing them exactly what each camera could see. We had overwhelming support for the scheme once they could clearly see we were not invading any privacy and that they were actually there to make their children feel safer and ensure we could identify any bullying, vaping, vandalism etc.

[mthomas08]

We have CCTV toilets to cover damages and bullying.

 

We're in the process of vape sensors. All legal measures have been covered and parents are certainly aware of it all and been in place for like... 15 years... well before my time.

 

In all that, we've only had 1 gripe comment which was aimed at the mobile phone ban. We had accusations of "someone sitting watching CCTV to see my little Johnny on a phone and the cameras are in cubicles". Course this caused a huge uproar for 5 minutes.

It got quickly corrected and they had to apologise for getting the wrong end of the stick. A staff member caught a child on their phone and asked to confiscate it, the child refused and walked away - clearly the kid didn't mention this part. The same old same old story. Just because the kid refused to hand in their phone which is a "human right to have and use" comment thrown at the very end of it all...........

 

Our SBM is pretty well clued up on regulations and laws (he has experience). We are covered very well.

 

As for the OP school.

-Did they discuss this in a PTA meeting and parent forums etc?

-Did they send out letters to parents that the school is considering CCTV in the toilets?

-Did they update the CCTV policies?

-Did they even attempt to reassure parents where the cameras are installed etc?

 

Reading through the article "A lot of the concern revolves around who will have access to the footage from such a personal environment and how it will be monitored. There’s understandable worry about what could happen if this footage were to end up in the wrong hands, and whether we can trust the ‘blocking technology’ being used to obscure certain areas."

 

Sounds like either the school hasn't provided enough information and setup discussions with parents OR parents haven't bothered to read it and screaming for the sake of it - the latter part does happen often.

[chazzy2501]

We spent £20k on new toilets, with sensor taps and dyson dryers. The pupils ripped them out 3 times before we couldn't afford to replace them. One time some boys ripped out one of those large toilet roll things (you know the foot wide ones) and took turns peeing into it and left it for site manager to deal with..

[drutt]

We spent £20k on new toilets, with sensor taps and dyson dryers. The pupils ripped them out 3 times before we couldn't afford to replace them. One time some boys ripped out one of those large toilet roll things (you know the foot wide ones) and took turns peeing into it and left it for site manager to deal with..

 

 

[nicholab]

We spent £20k on new toilets, with sensor taps and dyson dryers. The pupils ripped them out 3 times before we couldn't afford to replace them. One time some boys ripped out one of those large toilet roll things (you know the foot wide ones) and took turns peeing into it and left it for site manager to deal with..

 

Why are your pupils so ignorant and why did they not have to pay? Also everyone want has to go why would you destroy your own toilets. I would have found out the perpetrators and made them use work men’s toilets. I don’t know why some kids want to steal from themselves.

 

Also why were the parents not sent the bill for the damage. These kid should have been permanently expelled or made to spend the rest of their school lives in the internal exclusion unit.

 

The SLT completely failed here in telling the students and their parents off and not expecting them to pay for all the damage. This student should have had very limited access to toilets facilities once they stole this recourse from the while community. Their parents and them should have had to explain to the whole school why this was acceptable.

Edited January 10, 2025 by nicholab

[synaesthesia]

Exactly - CCTV would have facilitated exactly that, Halo wouldn't have As for why? Some of them don't need a reason. Acting up to peers, being kids, being PITAs for the sake of it. Usually the sort of kid who's parents make bad comments about these policies or go whinging to the media Edited January 10, 2025 by synaesthesia

[nicholab]

Exactly - CCTV would have facilitated exactly that, Halo wouldn't have As for why? Some of them don't need a reason. Acting up to peers, being kids, being PITAs for the sake of it. Usually the sort of kid who's parents make bad comments about these policies or go whinging to the media

 

Yes but the happen to the old fashioned techniques of finding out who did it?

[nicholab]

It frustrates me that these good kids have to put up with this scum. I we can’t get them to behave.

[mthomas08]

Why are your pupils so ignorant and why did they not have to pay? Also everyone want has to go why would you destroy your own toilets. I would have found out the perpetrators and made them use work men’s toilets. I don’t know why some kids want to steal from themselves.

 

Also why were the parents not sent the bill for the damage. These kid should have been permanently expelled or made to spend the rest of their school lives in the internal exclusion unit.

 

The SLT completely failed here in telling the students and their parents off and not expecting them to pay for all the damage. This student should have had very limited access to toilets facilities once they stole this recourse from the while community. Their parents and them should have had to explain to the whole school why this was acceptable.

 

Unless you take legal action, parents know they don't need to pay. You can send the letters.. make the calls.. if the parent refuses - there is nothing more.

 

Kids are kids.. some are bad.. some are rotten.. some don't care.. some find it funny.. some do it to look 'cool'.. the list is endless.

 

We have damaged toilets often. Hell, we just failed our Ofsted and 95% of the entire report said behaviour. Even though our school doing a long list of things to try and fix it.

 

If it wasn't for CCTV and the mobile ban, I fear it would be worse.. at least some kids and parents care about the repercussions of being caught.

 

What hope do you have when some parents say things like "what can I do" when we tell them about the behaviour of their own child............

[synaesthesia]

Yes but the happen to the old fashioned techniques of finding out who did it?

 

Relies on discipline, finding a child who cares enough about their own education. It's not like it was 20 years ago, entirely un-tech related, behaviour and attitudes of children is a different ball game. You might get lucky, but then you have the burden of proof.

[ITGuyNW]

Unless you take legal action, parents know they don't need to pay. You can send the letters.. make the calls.. if the parent refuses - there is nothing more.

 

Kids are kids.. some are bad.. some are rotten.. some don't care.. some find it funny.. some do it to look 'cool'.. the list is endless.

 

We have damaged toilets often. Hell, we just failed our Ofsted and 95% of the entire report said behaviour. Even though our school doing a long list of things to try and fix it.

 

If it wasn't for CCTV and the mobile ban, I fear it would be worse.. at least some kids and parents care about the repercussions of being caught.

 

What hope do you have when some parents say things like "what can I do" when we tell them about the behaviour of their own child............

 

We had a student go around and destroy 20+ keyboards. All on CCTV etc.

 

Parents refused to pay and had the audacity to accuse us of failing to educate their child in the manner of their ways. It actually kicked off a massive legal thing and the student is no longer with us.

 

Half the battle is the parents.

[nicholab]

The teacher say so is that matter this is not a law court. Why have parents become such scum not supporting teacher. Why will parents not take the teacher word when they are the authority about their horrible brat.

 

What happened to the punish everyone until someone comes forward and says it was them or who did it?

Edited January 10, 2025 by nicholab