IT Learning Charity for Children

[AB_IT]

Hi All,

 

It's something I've been thinking about for a while and something I'm passionate about. I've got this idea about setting up a not for profit kind of thing where I could work with disadvantaged children and help out the parents a little bit. I have free time on my hands over weekends and evenings so my idea was to look at advertising via social media and offering a free service to a limited number of kids (primary school age) and parents to come along to a practical IT lesson.

 

My idea really was the physical side of computing, showing the kids how to build a computer, allowing them to work in teams in order to do so and then turning on the computer, setting up a very basic LAN with a switch and allowing them to play a few LAN based games.

 

I thought it would be educational and fun for the children who are interested, maybe also give the parents a much needed break and give them free coffee whilst they're their so they can talk to other parents, make friends and socialise also. I've worked with kids like this in previous roles in schools with things like an IT club during lunchtimes and to be honest I miss working with them and want to feel like I'm giving something back. I've also thought that sometimes children can be a handful but I've had to deal with this previously and I was always praised on how I handled them.

 

I'm not even sure where to start or how to go about this? I've looked into pricing for a village hall to rent and then I'd just need some basic chairs and tables, a coffee machine etc. In my work we go through a lot of computers, currently paying a company to recycle them, I was going to speak with the CEO and see if they wouldn't mind donating the PC's that are to be chucked away to me and this whole venture.

 

What do you guys think? Is this a good idea? Is there something I'm missing or could something go wrong? Do I need anything for working with kids? I'm DBS checked in my current job, do I need some kind of insurance? Any kind of help or advice you guys could possibly give would be really appreciated

[sigma]

In my experience, village halls will have furniture and refreshments facilities, but not the consumables. You may find getting storage space for the kit more of a challenge.

 

Find out what the condition of hire are for halls and whether you would be covered by their insurance or not.

 

I think it’s a good idea. Things can always and will always go wrong. You’ll never know if it would work for your intended audience unless you try it.

[Steve21]

What do you guys think? Is this a good idea? Is there something I'm missing or could something go wrong? Do I need anything for working with kids? I'm DBS checked in my current job, do I need some kind of insurance? Any kind of help or advice you guys could possibly give would be really appreciated

 

In terms of missing items/other thoughts:

 

If you're using old computers from a workplace, you'd then take responsibility for WEEE/data destruction etc - Are you planning to do full wiping of them etc??

Insurance 100%, especially if you're expecting to build/let people use them after they're open

Licensing - If they're chucked devices I assume you wouldn't be using works KMS/MAK keys etc - Are they being taken back to OEM? Install medias etc? (Same with games etc, if you're doing this as a paid for service are you licensed to use those games like a cyber cafe etc)

PAT Testing - Are you going to be PAT testing them if they're being used in that manner?

DBS aren't normally transferable, so you'd have to check regarding whether your current one would still cover you in that scenario

 

Steve

[Rob_D]

PAT Testing - Are you going to be PAT testing them if they're being used in that manner?

Weird question, but you'd only need to get the kettle lead and the actual PSU Pat tested, right? You wouldn't PAT a motherboard anymore than you'd need to get a USB peripheral tested. And testing the whole computer seems redundant as it's going to be taken apart and rebuilt, potentially with a different combination of components. Or would you need to PAT test each time it was built? (I'm probably way overthinking this)

 

When it comes to "installations" I'd assume one would go for pre-fat-imaged drives (it seems to be what youtubers like J2C and LTT do to get their builds up and running quickly) as you're probably not going to be able to connect them to the internet very easily to download updates and stuff (which is also a consideration when it comes to games).

Are the company PCs you're thinking of getting using off the shelf parts? Dismantling and rebuilding an HP Prodesks can be pretty awkward and the insides are full of sharp edges.

 

If you're building half a dozen PCs a week, you're going to go through a lot of thermal paste.

 

With regards to potential games, what age of children are you thinking of aiming at? And did you have any games in mind? When I was looking for stuff for our "E-Sports club" it was really hard to find games that were multiplayer over local lan, didn't require an internet connection, and were suitable for 12-14YO kids.

 

When you're looking at spaces, don't forget you'll need a fair bit of power to run half a dozen PCs.

[dhicks]

I've got this idea about setting up a not for profit kind of thing where I could work with disadvantaged children and help out the parents a little bit.

 

You probably don't need to set up a whole new project entirely from scratch, various similar clubs / schemes exist, something you might be able to join and set up a local branch of. CodeClub would be the place I'd start looking at:

 

https://codeclub.org/en/

[AB_IT]

In my experience, village halls will have furniture and refreshments facilities, but not the consumables. You may find getting storage space for the kit more of a challenge.

 

Find out what the condition of hire are for halls and whether you would be covered by their insurance or not.

 

I think it’s a good idea. Things can always and will always go wrong. You’ll never know if it would work for your intended audience unless you try it.

 

Thank you, that's worth a go. I'll ask the village hall when I enquire and just see if they provide tables and chairs as part of the rental. Consumables and things are fine, tea, coffee and juice for the kids is fairly cheap from places like Aldi so I don't mind supplying these. I'll ask about Insurance also as if I can somehow use their insurance that'll be much easier.

 

Thank you I'm hoping so and I hope I can try to keep costs down - a few hundred pounds is fine for a budget but I don't want to be spending in the thousands.

 

In terms of missing items/other thoughts:

 

If you're using old computers from a workplace, you'd then take responsibility for WEEE/data destruction etc - Are you planning to do full wiping of them etc??

Insurance 100%, especially if you're expecting to build/let people use them after they're open

Licensing - If they're chucked devices I assume you wouldn't be using works KMS/MAK keys etc - Are they being taken back to OEM? Install medias etc? (Same with games etc, if you're doing this as a paid for service are you licensed to use those games like a cyber cafe etc)

PAT Testing - Are you going to be PAT testing them if they're being used in that manner?

DBS aren't normally transferable, so you'd have to check regarding whether your current one would still cover you in that scenario

 

Steve

With regards the destruction, I was just going to format the Hard Drives, I know I could boot and nuke but it'd only be for 6-8 weeks in the autumn and then the PC's would be returned back to my work place and I'd do it yearly if it was a success. So technically I won't be keeping the computers - would this all be above board do you think?

 

I'll look into insurance - hopefully it's not too costly especially for the amount of time I'm looking at running it for. Also above I might be able to use the Village Halls insurance?

 

I won't even bother licensing them. I was just going to download and install a trial/unactivated version of Windows and use that as it will only be for a few hours and then they'll be wiped again.

 

I didn't think about PAT testing. Again - can I not use cables temporarily from work that have already been PAT tested?

 

I'll look into DBS, hopefully especially as the parents will still be around it wouldn't be much of an issue? Food for thought though, I'll have a look.

 

Weird question, but you'd only need to get the kettle lead and the actual PSU Pat tested, right? You wouldn't PAT a motherboard anymore than you'd need to get a USB peripheral tested. And testing the whole computer seems redundant as it's going to be taken apart and rebuilt, potentially with a different combination of components. Or would you need to PAT test each time it was built? (I'm probably way overthinking this)

 

When it comes to "installations" I'd assume one would go for pre-fat-imaged drives (it seems to be what youtubers like J2C and LTT do to get their builds up and running quickly) as you're probably not going to be able to connect them to the internet very easily to download updates and stuff (which is also a consideration when it comes to games).

Are the company PCs you're thinking of getting using off the shelf parts? Dismantling and rebuilding an HP Prodesks can be pretty awkward and the insides are full of sharp edges.

 

If you're building half a dozen PCs a week, you're going to go through a lot of thermal paste.

 

With regards to potential games, what age of children are you thinking of aiming at? And did you have any games in mind? When I was looking for stuff for our "E-Sports club" it was really hard to find games that were multiplayer over local lan, didn't require an internet connection, and were suitable for 12-14YO kids.

 

When you're looking at spaces, don't forget you'll need a fair bit of power to run half a dozen PCs.

 

Yes we're using standard computers although they tend to be Dell Optiplex's which actually aren't too sharp or awkward to work in. They also have plastic tabs on some things like the fan to remove them easily.

 

Thermal paste is cheap that doesn't bother me

 

I did think about the games and licensing part. I'm not sure how I'd do the licensing of it yet but I was thinking about them playing Human Fall Flat, Rocket League or Overcooked. These games aren't that physically demanding either so I'm hoping some machines which don't have GPU's would be able to run it with the iGPU?

 

 

 

 

You probably don't need to set up a whole new project entirely from scratch, various similar clubs / schemes exist, something you might be able to join and set up a local branch of. CodeClub would be the place I'd start looking at:

 

https://codeclub.org/en/

I'll be honest - the reason I want to set this up is because things like this exist. School really focus on coding as well now and I used to find it so boring anyway. I hated the idea of just coding something. The exciting part of what got me into computers when I was a child was opening the up, breaking them, learning physically. I think coding is overdone and is quite a difficult thing to get into.

 

The idea behind building a computer, turning it on, troubleshooting and it eventually leading you to playing video games with your friends signals a reward mechanism that I don't think coding competes with if that makes sense. I remember being a kid and building my first computer and certain things I missed even after researching like thermal paste for example or what to do with the BIOS. I think giving kids this age the basic understanding of how to build these gives them confidence and understanding in something they're interested in which i think is a lot more positive than just learning coding. Plus the coding used by children that age isn't actually real coding anyway and doesn't have much relevance to real coding platforms like JAVA or C++ etc... I really think what's missing from the IT curriculum in schools is hardware.

[mavhc]

Hardware has become basically unrepairable or upgradable, ram and gpu are now on the same chip as the cpu, laptops are just batteries + a smart phone circuit board, and when the kids are grown up it'll be more true

 

The concepts of loops, variables, functions, and decomposition of a problem into simpler steps are the same in almost every programming language

[dhicks]

Hardware has become basically unrepairable or upgradable

 

I think AB_IT is aiming more for a "Maker Space" kind of setup - if the skills they have are more around setting up a computer than programming then it would seem to make sense for them to offer that as a holiday / after-school club. If hardware in the form of desktop PCs is available for free then, again, it makes sense to use those. The inside of a desktop computer is something most children don't wind up seeing, so it might be an interesting exercise for them. Modern single-board computers like the Raspberry Pi are nifty, and would take up less space in a possibly already-crowded child's living space, but that might not be an affordable option in this case.

 

Licensing: my guess is that once people have a computer they've put together and set up, they're going to want to take it home with them to play with. It might be a good idea to make sure they can do that, even if that's a paid-for extra option. At one point I think you could get licenses for Windows for refurbished PCs at around £30-odd, I'm not sure what the current setup is - one of the Microsoft licensing suppliers on here might be able to explain better. There is, of course, Linux - probably one of the retro gaming-orientated distributions in this case. Or, possibly, ChromeOS for a home machine to do school work on, although probably not as fun an option.

 

If a child is taking home a PC, the next thing they're going to want is a keyboard, mouse and monitor to plug it in to. You might want to see if you can find a supply of monitors - if they have a TV to plug into, you might want to have some long-ish HDMI cables on hand to dish out. Depending on the school / area, if the child has a laptop / Chromebook at home they can use that as a monitor with an HDMI-to-USB adapter.

[AB_IT]

Hardware has become basically unrepairable or upgradable, ram and gpu are now on the same chip as the cpu, laptops are just batteries + a smart phone circuit board, and when the kids are grown up it'll be more true

 

The concepts of loops, variables, functions, and decomposition of a problem into simpler steps are the same in almost every programming language

I wouldn't agree with this at all. Yes there are certain PC's that aren't upgradable but the vast majority I'd say even in MicroPC's that Dell, HP produce have upgradable components such as the CPU, RAM and Storage. Later down the line things may become less upgradable but that's very dependent on the use case. For example; it might make sense for companies/schools to buy into non-upgradable computers in order to save space and get the best bang for buck when it comes to eco reasons and to save power. There will always be a market however in gaming for upgradable, custom made PC's and actually the amount of PC gamers has grown over the last few years as has the sale of individual components for PC building.

 

This skill is transfferable across to businesses and schools, for example being able to understand what components to inside a computer and what they look like helps aid troubleshooting even if perhaps things are soldered down. Installing an operating system and understand how that works along with the BIOS is also something that is helpful. Setting up a Local LAN to play games seems recreational but actually the children are learning what an ethernet cable does, what a switch does, how computer communicate etc... which is all information that isn't normally taught by the standard curriculum in schools.

 

I've seen 13 year old children touch the screen rather than use the mouse and keyboard in front of them because they've never had access to an actual computer before. I understand things are becoming more mainstream but there will always be a market for this kind of thing and it's growing in the consumer space.

 

Coding is a very important thing to understand although this is already baked into the curriculum and I wanted to give these children and parents something different to experience that is physical, we're also talking about disadvantaged children in low income areas is where I'm focusing, these children tend to learn better via physical play and their educational background or more common conditions such as ADHD in those areas might mean that coding isn't as easy to focus on and they might not enjoy it as much. Practical work seems to work better for these children in order to learn.

 

I think AB_IT is aiming more for a "Maker Space" kind of setup - if the skills they have are more around setting up a computer than programming then it would seem to make sense for them to offer that as a holiday / after-school club. If hardware in the form of desktop PCs is available for free then, again, it makes sense to use those. The inside of a desktop computer is something most children don't wind up seeing, so it might be an interesting exercise for them. Modern single-board computers like the Raspberry Pi are nifty, and would take up less space in a possibly already-crowded child's living space, but that might not be an affordable option in this case.

 

Licensing: my guess is that once people have a computer they've put together and set up, they're going to want to take it home with them to play with. It might be a good idea to make sure they can do that, even if that's a paid-for extra option. At one point I think you could get licenses for Windows for refurbished PCs at around £30-odd, I'm not sure what the current setup is - one of the Microsoft licensing suppliers on here might be able to explain better. There is, of course, Linux - probably one of the retro gaming-orientated distributions in this case. Or, possibly, ChromeOS for a home machine to do school work on, although probably not as fun an option.

 

If a child is taking home a PC, the next thing they're going to want is a keyboard, mouse and monitor to plug it in to. You might want to see if you can find a supply of monitors - if they have a TV to plug into, you might want to have some long-ish HDMI cables on hand to dish out. Depending on the school / area, if the child has a laptop / Chromebook at home they can use that as a monitor with an HDMI-to-USB adapter.

Unfortunately they won't be able to take the computers home with them, it will be around a 2-3 hour class where the first house will be building the computer, second house setting up software side of things and the LAN and then they get an hour of play time depending on how quickly they get through all the above steps.

 

I will make this clear on the day and in advertising though and they'll need to work in teams of 2, class of 25ish with 12 computers so it wouldn't be fair to let one child take the PC home and not the other. They also technically won't be my computers to sell off as they'll still be my workplaces, maybe my work won't mind giving them away but with the fear of data protection etc I think they'll want them back and still properly recycled and as the IT Manager I'll be reccomending this anyway.

Edited July 18, 2024 by AB_IT

[Rob_D]

with the fear of data protection etc I think they'll want them back and still properly recycled and as the IT Manager I'll be reccomending this anyway.

 

If it were me, I'd pull the drives, leave them with the company, and replace them with clean ones (just to be safe).

 

It seems an odd arrangement, to take some PCs over the summer, repeatedly dismantle and rebuild them, and then give them back presumably just to be disposed of. I imagine most of us would see not having the cost of disposal as a benefit of donating machines to projects like this.

Edited July 18, 2024 by Rob_D

[Davit2005]

While there is still a market where Motherboards, CPU, RAM and storage is all modular and upgradable there will always be a place for this type of activity. Also teaching children/young people how to use basic hand tools and observe safety is valuable.

[pete]

With regards the destruction, I was just going to format the Hard Drives, I know I could boot and nuke but it'd only be for 6-8 weeks in the autumn and then the PC's would be returned back to my work place and I'd do it yearly if it was a success. So technically I won't be keeping the computers - would this all be above board do you think?

 

No. Use fresh drives, formerly bitlockered drives that have been formatted or Boot & Nuke.

 

The kind of children you're likely to attract are very much the kind of children who'd know enough to nick a drive and run testdisk/photorec.

 

Plus it only takes another user of said village hall to not lock up properly / not supervise other users of the hall to win yourself a data breach.

 

Don't put yourself/your employer in the position of explaining to ICO that the drives hadn't been properly sanitised.

Edited January 14, 2025 by pete