Diaries

[TimTech]

Why do staff in schools still get given paper diaries? We give out laptops to all teachers, and exchange email accounts to all staff - so they all have access to a computerised diary. Why do we insist on buying bits of paper all the time?

 

To waste any excess cash, or they'd have to pay us all properly:p

[localzuk]

Thanks for that rant ahuxham.

 

You haven't actually addressed any of my points though, such as the fact that a paper diary is only a single item and susceptible to being lost or damaged, or simply incorrect (it happens a lot, that a single member of staff manages to write it down wrong). Or the time taken to organise things.

 

Instead you choose ad hominem attacks/arguments.

[ahuxham]

Thanks for that rant ahuxham.

 

You haven't actually addressed any of my points though, such as the fact that a paper diary is only a single item and susceptible to being lost or damaged, or simply incorrect (it happens a lot, that a single member of staff manages to write it down wrong). Or the time taken to organise things.

 

Instead you choose ad hominem attacks/arguments.

 

Go get on with some work, you argumentativeness is actually infuriating. Who cares what point you express, others have their own opinions, and we stick by them, you'll do your school no favours charging around with that attitude.

 

The fact that you cannot accept another opinion without the need to get into topical debate clearly shows your childishness, got something to prove?

[localzuk]

Go get on with some work, you argumentativeness is actually infuriating. Who cares what point you express, others have their own opinions, and we stick by them, you'll do your school no favours charging around with that attitude.

 

The fact that you cannot accept another opinion without the need to get into topical debate clearly shows your childishness, got something to prove?

 

Sorry but you are not understanding the concept of a forum here. We discuss points, countering them as we go along, or conceding them. I will concede 100% that some staff would dislike using an electronic system. That some will find it more of a hassle, but I don't think this would be anywhere near a majority.

 

And the points I made above aren't opinions, they are demonstrable facts. Diaries do go missing. Diaries do get damaged. Meetings do get written in incorrectly in one person's diary. etc... Those are not opinions.

 

My opinion on the matter was expressed in my first couple of posts. Since then I have pretty much stuck to actual, factual information.

 

You have simply attacked me, yet again. Which is a) unprofessional and b) more childish than my attitude.

 

So, all I am asking is that you address the points made rather than ranting, yet again.

 

Also, I will stick by my opinions unless someone can counter them. You appear to be sticking to your opinions without any possibility of countering them. Which is the more helpful attitude?

[ahuxham]

Sorry but you are not understanding the concept of a forum here. We discuss points, countering them as we go along, or conceding them. I will concede 100% that some staff would dislike using an electronic system. That some will find it more of a hassle, but I don't think this would be anywhere near a majority.

 

And the points I made above aren't opinions, they are demonstrable facts. Diaries do go missing. Diaries do get damaged. Meetings do get written in incorrectly in one person's diary. etc... Those are not opinions.

 

My opinion on the matter was expressed in my first couple of posts. Since then I have pretty much stuck to actual, factual information.

 

You have simply attacked me, yet again. Which is a) unprofessional and b) more childish than my attitude.

 

So, all I am asking is that you address the points made rather than ranting, yet again.

 

Also, I will stick by my opinions unless someone can counter them. You appear to be sticking to your opinions without any possibility of countering them. Which is the more helpful attitude?

 

Always have to have the last word eh?

 

I am not obliged to reiterate my points, I am not obliged to participate in topically discussions, I am not obliged to respond to your posts defending myself, I am not obliged to accept anything you say, forum software works as it does.

 

Sticking to your opinions until counter, is not an opinion, its a fact, for factual statement, you believe that your view is superior than others, that your points clearly thwart us, and that all we have to contribute is nonsense, as you seem to find anything or everything to throw back at it.

 

 

EDIT: I like dairies, they have their use, and at our school, they will remain. Irregardless of loss, damage, or mistakes written in them, users can take them home at the end of the day, where they may not have access to a school machine, therefore their calendar. We are not IBM, we do not have the resources nor need to make everything electronic, we shant mock others for expressing different opinions, we shall support them in their every effort.

Edited July 17, 2008 by ahuxham

[HodgeHi]

I think that paper/pda based diaries are /should be an extension to an exchange or alternative online calendaring system. My reasons for this is the fact that if you are out and about and have the only copy of your diary with you then how can someone arrange a meeting with you?

 

The paper-based / pda diary is for personal-with-you-all-the-time use and IMO should be transferred to online calendars as soon as you either get back to the office or as soon as possible. This is so that others can then see your immensely busy schedule and not bother meeting with you anyway.

 

But all jokes aside the lack of team spirit and communication in schools is astounding and all steps to sort this is IMO better for everyone.

[SteveT]

 

 

EDIT: I like dairies, they have their use, and at our school, they will remain.

 

You must be the milk monitor then!!!????:D:D

[ahuxham]

You must be the milk monitor then!!!????:D:D

 

I see what you did there

[paul]

All our school claendar's are electonic on Exchange Public folders. So much easier no need to cross refernece! Events are all colour coded so you can easily see what effects you, staff out on courses/meetings/annual leave are all displayed no need to chase round looking for someone if they aren't in.

[Newton]

I use a BlackBerry, it deletes random appointments if if Im daring enough to edit an appoint it gets repeated 5 times per edit, My paper diary never did that, and still worked when I droped it which why I now have the latest model of BB:D

[KarlGoddard]

I'm slowly moving from paper based diary to electronic (OWA) but the problem is OWA or whatever platform you use is only effective if *everyone* uses it.

 

In a school that simply isn't going to happen, well not in the immediate future, at least. By definition the technical staff within a school do tend to see everything from technical perspectives. That's not a slight to the techs (I am one myself!) but sometimes if a system works, leave it alone. Everything doesn't have to be electronically based. I'd prefer to give alternative methods of collaboration than autocratically declare the death of paper based diaries or whatever system just because *I* think it should be done a different way.

 

Now, if there was a pressing business reason to adopt 'e-diaries' I'd be at the front of the charge to make a change, but I can see no reason as to why paper / electronic can't co-exsist.

 

But I like my A4 diary - it's what I'm comfortable with and it compliments my way of work.

 

And PDA's will be dead within a few years - Dell have dropped the Axim - the 'smartphone' will be the tool of choice... just waiting for the day where we start equipping staff with N95's....

Edited July 17, 2008 by KarlGoddard

[contink]

I use this site to learn new things, and I also use it outside work. Whenever I am on here, you can rest assure that I am doing several other things at the same time.

 

EDIT: Realised I was foaming slightly at the mouth

 

The bottom line is simple... Diaries are still used because they work for everyone.. Why fix it if it ain't broke?

Edited July 17, 2008 by contink

[localzuk]

EDIT: Realised I was foaming slightly at the mouth

 

The bottom line is simple... Diaries are still used because they work for everyone.. Why fix it if it ain't broke?

 

It is broke. That's my point.

[contink]

It is broke. That's my point.

 

No, you are!.. like a record...

[KarlGoddard]

No, you are!.. like a record...

 

lol, I must admit that made me spit my tea out

[PEO]

I use outlook 2003. does the job, plus i like the act it alerts me of a scheduled meetings or tasks, which I like alot

[localzuk]

No, you are!.. like a record...

 

Lol. I know I'm persistent, yes, but all I ask is that someone actually counters my points. Is that too much to ask?

[leco]

Lol. I know I'm persistent, yes, but all I ask is that someone actually counters my points. Is that too much to ask?

 

Not too much to ask, no. But your points have indeed been countered in more than one post.

[localzuk]

Not too much to ask, no. But your points have indeed been countered in more than one post.

 

I still don't see it. My second post outlines the time it takes people to arrange meetings? Agreed? The response I have received have not once mentioned that time taken. I have had responses regarding social interaction, cost, availability outside of school, mentions that doing it by phone is easier (but not really explained as to how), that meetings would be confirmed (which they aren't in most cases I know of), that paper diaries are useful for taking notes (I agree with this, but then a notepad would suit that purpose better), that technology breaks down (this is true, but so do paper diaries - ie loss, damage, incorrect input), that diaries are also used as markbooks/lesson planners (which they should no longer be, as the govt wants it all computerised for access by parents), training, that paper is therapeutic, that not using them would wipe out an industry (???), insecurity of PDA's (paper diaries are just as, if not more insecure), licensing (a non-issue if it was done properly).

 

I think I've summed all of them up there. And I think I have countered most of them, except cost and that paper is therapeutic (completely depends on the person). But I have not got any response to the original thought, that a huge amount of time is wasted with such an inefficient system.

 

If someone can effectively counter that then I will be happy and concede that it is just my geeky, want to improve everyone's lives, mind that is at fault here.

[GrumbleDook]

Simple ... I have a PA that does it all for me.

 

I need a meeting, she knows when I am and am not available ... she fills in the blanks based on teachers' timetables (remembering that timetables are not hooked into the calendar so some more checking needs to be done anyway), availability of external people (a good number of my meetings are with external agencies) which is often checked via phone or email ...

 

And then she will tell me and I right it in my Diary.

 

Even with an internal electronic calendar we would still have to do a lot of ringing around and negotiating times.

[localzuk]

Ok, thanks. That works for people with PA's, so probably half a dozen people in a large school. What about everyone else?

[maniac]

If you look at it from the point of efficientcy then you can't argue much with the fact for those who are willing, and have the skills to use and the means to access easily the necessary software to manage their diary electronically, then providing everyone is managing their diary the same way then yes, it is undoubtably a more efficient process.

 

In your first post you asked why do schools insist on buying all these bits of paper, and I think it all boils down to old habits die hard. Paper based diaries will always be used by some, I use one myself and suppliment it with an electronic one to utilise reminders in case somethings slipped my mind from reading the diary that morning.

 

With the given example of arranging a meeting, I think as long as the system works and the meeting gets arranged then all's good. Yes it takes longer to get an answer, but it's not like you're actually using 3 hours of time to arrange a meeting, it probably only take a few minutes of physical time to perform the actions to arrange the meeting, (like send an e-mail, ring them on the phone or pop and see them quickly) you're just waiting 3 hours for a confirmed response. If the meeting is arranged say for a few days time anyway, then waiting a few hours for a response is no real problem in my opinion.

 

Anyway, that's my take on it all. I shall now bow out of this thread.

 

Mike.

Edited July 17, 2008 by maniac

[GrumbleDook]

Ok, thanks. That works for people with PA's, so probably half a dozen people in a large school. What about everyone else?

 

Being honest I get a fair bit of grief from the PA I share with 3 others in SLT. Mainly because I do most of my own ringing round, etc ... but the above works for the others she organises. For me ... I tend to give available dates and after 2 or 3 emails or messages we narrow it down to a final date, time and location ... but that is due to a large number of external people I have to meet with.

 

Even if I use and electronic diary and send meeting invites, I will get them back saying that they are unavailable ... it is easier to swap available dates instead.

 

To some extent the same applies for teachers. Due to the lack of integration between the timetable and the electronic calendar, most staff will refer to their main planner for their timetable. They then will say when they are free and a process of elimination occurs. Teachers are unlikely to convert their timetable into and electronic calendar in something like Exchange. It also would not take into account cover, CPD / training or other events very easily.

 

For most teachers using a diary / planner is a simple solution to a complex problem. Meetings are organised in the staff room over a cuppa and can be done in a few minutes.

 

I rarely see the telephone / email tennis when we are talking about teachers sorting themselves out ... it is mainly when you are working with external groups or SLT that you get it, and electronic calendars are not much help there.

 

From an LA point of view ... then yes, electronic calendars are essential and a blessing ... but I would still support it by using a diary due to the availability of access to the system.

[webman]

To some extent the same applies for teachers. Due to the lack of integration between the timetable and the electronic calendar

 

Hmm if only SIMS would publish timetables in a standard format such as iCal or XML. Hahahah flying pigs............

[TechMonkey]

Haven't read the whol thread so probably going over old ground but both the SM & me use paper diaries. I try and use the outlook calendar as much as possible so the reminders kick in or I will just forget but when sitting in a meeting it is much easier to whip out the diary. Unless we were to be given pdas especially for work and even then I think they wouldn't get synced as much as they should.

The other problem is outlook scheduling and meeting arranging works in offices that everyone is glued at their desks but most staff aren't. Added to that the way teacher timetables aren't in outlook calenders people still need to check when they are available.

 

the biggest reason though is that it can be taken into a meeting and be used to doodle in when thourghly bored with out causing too much suspision.