Highway Code Hierarchy of Road Users

[mikeprice]

@mikeprice Shared use paths and cycle lanes had different rules previously - cyclists had priority over cars turning across them on a cycle lane but not on a shared use path, hence the give way signs. The HC revision should make that clearer, although presumably not until the lines are repainted. I must admit, I don't generally use shared use paths (partly for the stupid rules about priority, but also because at 15-20mph on my bike, I feel I'm safer on a 20-30mph road than a 3-5mph pavement where people don't always realise it is shared use or have dogs wondering around leaving trip wires across the path) so I can't comment on whether behaviour there has changed since the HC revision.

 

Thanks

I think this is a point that most people are not aware of - so I take the view that it is best to assume that cars etc will generally assume that you will stop for them

If I am driving I will generally try to slow down enough for the cyclists to cross before I get there - if I can

[Arthur]

[mavhc]

No reports of a massive increase in deaths or accidents, seems like everyone is safer now. Assuming no change in the future because little change in 8 months is silly

[Davit2005]

Few pedestrians hesitate looking the wrong way i.e. on a central island on roundabout exits and entrances so have a few time sat in car at a standstill until made decision to jus edge slowly forward incase pedestrian turns and realizes then makes a dash for it. Edited September 23, 2022 by Davit2005

[Davit2005]

Ashley Neal points out some of the issues of Roundabouts with the highway code updates, well some aren't really issues as he points out :-)

 

[LeMarchand]

Ashley Neal points out some of the issues of Roundabouts with the highway code updates, well some aren't really issues as he points out :-)

 

 

Tl;dw. Got a précis?

[jmak]

Tl;dw. Got a précis?

If everyone on the road were observant competent drivers who kept up to date with highway code updates and pedestrians were all aware of the rules, implementing this rule would be fine. Since most people act like selfish cretins when they get behind the wheel, it's probably not a good idea and will lead to more problems than it solves. DVLA have also completely failed by the complete lack of publicity.

 

The focus is giving way at the exit to roundabouts. The rest of it should be manageable.

[enjay]

If everyone on the road were observant competent drivers who kept up to date with highway code updates and pedestrians were all aware of the rules, implementing this rule would be fine

 

That's the key part, isn't it. Often, I've come to a situation where the new rules give me priority, but I don't have the confidence the driver knows that so I've waited anyway. I would take no comfort from being able to say "but I was right" as I rolled off the car's bonnet.

 

I'm also mindful when on my bike that the view of cyclists is low enough already, I don't want to worsen that by doing something which many people don't realise is now permitted.

[LeMarchand]

It's not just new rules. Many people fail to grasp basics such as speed limits* or indicating.

 

*Or choose to ignore them until they see a speed camera.

Edited June 30, 2023 by LeMarchand

[enjay]

It's not just new rules. Many people fail to grasp basics such as speed limits* or indicating.

 

Indeed. I judge whether a car is about to turn by its speed, brake lights and position in the lane much more than I do by its indicators.

[Andrew_C]

Teaching daughter to drive; "What does the flashing light on that car mean?" That the bulb hasn't blown yet....

[mikeprice]

To be fair that is all you know for certain.

 

Of course it could mean that they are turning - or to be pedantic - intending to turn left/right

 

or - if it is blue then they want you to get out of the way or pull over

 

but all you actually know for certain is that the bulb is intermittently working

[Andrew_C]

Been 'pedestrianing' a bit today. Rather surprised that the S Wales drivers are giving way to pedestrians, and more worried that MrsC hadn't heard of the changes... [emoji33]

[LeMarchand]

Reviving this, as I'm getting sick of "giving way" to pedestrians who are to engrossed in their phones to bother to cross.

[Rob_D]

Too few people understand the rules around pedestrian right of way at junctions, or just straight up don't know about it and assume the car always has right of way, to bother actually giving way to waiting pedestrians. If there's someone there I'll go in ready to stop should they assert their right of way.

[DaveTheTech]

Too few people understand the rules around pedestrian right of way at junctions, or just straight up don't know about it and assume the car always has right of way, to bother actually giving way to waiting pedestrians. If there's someone there I'll go in ready to stop should they assert their right of way.

 

Much like the game of roundabout chicken.

Plan to go, but look to stop.

[enjay]

Reviving this, as I'm getting sick of "giving way" to pedestrians who are to engrossed in their phones to bother to cross.

 

Or nearly getting rear-ended and being sworn at by the driver behind you when you stop to allow a pedestrian to cross the side-road you're turning into.

[Davit2005]

Or nearly getting rear-ended and being sworn at by the driver behind you when you stop to allow a pedestrian to cross the side-road you're turning into.

 

^^ I did have this a few months back but the pedestrian was already in the road, I had to stop. The bloke behind raced up behind me coming up to the roundabout with no thought or look there was a pedestrian in front.

 

I've said it before that many drivers drive too close to the point where they can only react directly to the actions of the vehicle in front rather than anything further up the road. And they are driving so close that they can not see anything further up the road and not aware that traffic maybe slowing or stopping. All you need is more than one person to do that and it is a recipe for a pile up.

[enjay]

I've said it before that many drivers drive too close to the point where they can only react directly to the actions of the vehicle in front rather than anything further up the road. And they are driving so close that they can not see anything further up the road and not aware that traffic maybe slowing or stopping

 

It's also a (lack of) awareness of the rules. The driver behind you slows down in response to your brake lights as you approach the junction, but expects you to take the corner at 15mph or whatever, rather than recognising you might come to a complete stop while still on the main road. In some instances (such as the entrance to my road!), things obstruct the view meaning the driver behind probably can't see whether there is a pedestrian or not - of course, they should therefore assume there is one until they know otherwise, but that's not how everyone thinks. I remember my driving instructor telling me all traffic lights are red until I know they're green, and to approach every blind bend as if just round it is a lorry being driven by my mother!

[mavhc]

But my mother doesn't have an HGV license! -- Exactly.

[JSpaced]

Not totally relevant but where I live, two rules apply to the road:

Everyone knows where I'm going. The little blinky orange lights are a waste of space.

If I can't see it, it's probably not on the road. This includes stuff I don't look at.

[enjay]

Everyone knows where I'm going. The little blinky orange lights are a waste of space.

 

Why do you want to know which way I'm turning? It's none of your business where I'm going. Are you a stalker, innit?

[mikeprice]

I have this sort of thing everyday

 

The road into our estate in a tight turn off a main-ish road

 

but the people that live on the corner have a big van (normally parked in the small driveway)

a big pickup type thingy

and a large family saloon type thing

 

and they all park JUST out of sight round the corner - 3/4 of a car length from the main road

 

and the people opposite also park on the road

 

all park on the pavement to allow someroom (which is another conversation!!)

 

but it means that the road is half blocked a lot of the time

 

so if a car it coming the other way (out of the estate) then it gets confusing

 

hence I signal left and slow down A LOT before actually turning as I can see naff all

 

quite a few times cars behind be assume I will jsut breeze round the corner at 10-15 mph and have to slam the brakes on when they realise I am going at less than walking pace

 

 

very similar to giving way to a pedestrian

 

 

basically it is just people making assumptions and not paying attention

 

 

not beena crash yet

 

but am sure there will be at some point!

[enjay]

Yesterday, Mrs Enjay was driving and came to a light-controlled junction where she was turning right off a main road onto a smaller road. A cyclist was riding along the pavement (normal pavement, not shared use path) towards her on the opposite side of the main road, then dropped onto the road once they'd passed the red light and continued along the road. Mrs Enjay stopped rather than hit them (obviously!) but the cyclist got aggressive towards her for not giving way to them sooner. Does the hierarchy rule apply even for someone who shouldn't legally be there, or was the cyclist being a tool?

 

We have similar near where I live as lots of people cycle along the pavement then obviously cycle across side road entrances - the hierarchy states pedestrians crossing those side roads have priority but obviously doesn't say about people cycling illegally on the pavement. That situation is different though, as it is a horrible road (narrow with lots of lorries and buses, and solid traffic in both directions) so I totally understand people not wanting to cycle on it, and I'm therefore happy to stop for them. In Mrs Enjay's situation, however, the cyclist had used the pavement purely to jump the queue of cars at the lights.

 

Thoughts welcome, as the incident got Mrs Enjay quite upset.

[PotNoodleTech]

It's illegal for an adult to ride a bike on the pavement anyway, so plough them, and ask questions later?