Highway Code Hierarchy of Road Users

[mavhc]

I hope the police are watching all the people who say they're such bad drivers they can't help but murder people with the new rules, and are banning them from driving

[Andrew_C]

Equally, I hope Darwin is watching all the pedestrians and cyclists that think they have become invulnerable now some rules have been changed (but not yet properly published).

[LeMarchand]

I hope the police are watching all the people who say they're such bad drivers they can't help but murder people with the new rules, and are banning them from driving

 

Dream on. They have never bothered about:

Equally, I hope Darwin is watching all the pedestrians and cyclists that think they have become invulnerable now some rules have been changed (but not yet properly published).

 

or drivers who can't tell the difference between a two lane road with a posted speed limit and a dual carriageway, a motorway and an autobahn or a safe stopping distance and a good swooping spot etc etc etc

[mavhc]

Killing people with your car sounds like a bad idea for all involved, let's try to avoid that

 

This controversial opinion has been brought to you by mavhc

[mikeprice]

I have always worked on the concept that if a pedestrian wander into the road without warning and I hit him (because it is probably going to be a him) then his head might damage my bonnet

 

which I really don;t want

 

so I try and predict if someone is likely to do that and do whateverv is needed to avoid the collision

 

basically I just don't want the dents and blood on my car

 

 

new rules don't seem to have changed that concept

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and as for bike - lots of metal bits that might scratch the paint - best to avoid hitting them in my opinion

[Davit2005]

Worth a look is this youtube channel, of course I'd always suggest checking official references for clarification and never rely on social media for legal reference.

 

[enjay]

I thought the same thing. Surely the cyclist is in the wrong if they overtake a car that's indicating to turn? It seem to imply that now cyclists can overtake turning vehicles with impunity? I certainly wouldn't risk doing that kind of manoeuvre if I was out cycling!

 

Rule H3: New priority for cyclists when cars are turning You should not cut across cyclists, horse riders or horse drawn vehicles going ahead when you are turning into or out of a junction or changing direction or lane. This applies whether they are using a cycle lane, a cycle track, or riding ahead on the road and you should give way to them. Do not turn at a junction if to do so would cause the cyclist, horse rider or horse drawn vehicle going straight ahead to stop or swerve. You should stop and wait for a safe gap in the flow of cyclists if necessary.

 

I think context is key with the rule about turning left in front of cyclists / passing vehicles on the left. If I am cycling along a free-flowing road and the car in front of me indicates, I'm not about to pass them (even though the guidance appears to allow this). Where the guidance helps is with drivers overtaking me and then immediately turning left in front of me because they didn't want the 1 second delay of staying behind me until the junction. Another place the guidance is relevant is when cars are at a standstill and cyclists are filtering past on either side (which they're allowed to do), it reminds the driver to check their mirrors before turning when traffic flow resumes.

[enjay]

Equally, I hope Darwin is watching all the pedestrians and cyclists that think they have become invulnerable now some rules have been changed (but not yet properly published).

 

I'm not about to cross a road without looking or checking the driver is stopping just because of the new guidance, as that will hurt. These changes (most of which are guidance not law anyway) should hopefully serve to remind people about their responsibilities not to injure the more vulnerable road user. I think they also help remind motorists about what cyclists are allowed to do, e.g. ride two abreast, filter past traffic on either side, and ride in the middle of the lane when a safe pass isn't possible (as an example, I often cycle along quite a narrow bridge - when doing so, I pull out into the middle of my lane to ensure drivers wait for a gap in oncoming traffic before passing me, rather than squeezing past me on the same side of the road).

[Andrew_C]

I know what it intends, however some seem to be interpreting it in bizarre ways.

[enjay]

I know what it intends, however some seem to be interpreting it in bizarre ways.

 

That's normal. The press will twist it for a sensational click-bait headline, pro-cycling groups will take it another way, petrol-heads will hear what they want ("two abreast? That's ridiculous, they don't even pay road tax" etc.).

[mavhc]

Cyclists should be blocking the roads because oil burning cars don't pay pollution tax, nor does anyone pay based on how much damage they cause to the roads.

 

Charge people per mile * damage due to weight

 

damage per axle = (mass of vehicle / number of axles)^4

[enjay]

Charge people per mile * damage due to weight

 

Per-mile tax is an interesting idea, but would be difficult to calculate directly. Maybe ring-fence some of the duty/tax on fuel and give that to local councils specifically for road maintenance? If you go down that road (), maybe also send some funding specifically to the NHS and clean air initiatives too.

 

Also, damage due to weight varies depending on road type and vehicle speed. The main road near me was resurfaced a few years ago and you now get troughs in the bus stops where the wheels sit. The rest of the road is fine, as are bus stops on sections which weren't resurfaced with that particular material.

[jmak]

Per-mile tax is an interesting idea, but would be difficult to calculate directly. Maybe ring-fence some of the duty/tax on fuel and give that to local councils specifically for road maintenance? If you go down that road (), maybe also send some funding specifically to the NHS and clean air initiatives too.

 

Also, damage due to weight varies depending on road type and vehicle speed. The main road near me was resurfaced a few years ago and you now get troughs in the bus stops where the wheels sit. The rest of the road is fine, as are bus stops on sections which weren't resurfaced with that particular material.

Charging by fuel duty used to work quite well. Less efficient car or drive it more means you pay more fuel duty. I now have an electric car and electric heating. I pay much less duty on fuel for my car than I used to, but much more than I used to on my heating (VAT is the same but there's an environmental levy).

 

Per mile charging would depend on either GPS tracking of all vehicle movements (no thanks) or a transponder of some kind sending information on distance travelled to "the authorities" and some kind of charging mechanism. Not sure how people would take to being sent an invoice at the end of the month for the miles they'd travelled.

[enjay]

Charging by fuel duty used to work quite well. Less efficient car or drive it more means you pay more fuel duty. I now have an electric car and electric heating.

 

Yeah, as I posted that last comment, I realised it didn't really cover electric vehicles.

 

Per mile charging would depend on either GPS tracking of all vehicle movements (no thanks) or a transponder of some kind sending information on distance travelled to "the authorities" and some kind of charging mechanism. Not sure how people would take to being sent an invoice at the end of the month for the miles they'd travelled.

 

Check odometer at each MOT and charge accordingly? Different prices for MOTs depending on mileage travelled? Both of these lead to a black market industry in winding odometers backwards of course!

ANPR on major roads? We're already issuing speeding tickets based on these cameras (and fines for using mobiles, but that's another matter - https://www.newscientist.com/article/2300329-australias-ai-cameras-catch-over-270000-drivers-using-their-phones), so why not mileage costs? This might just mean more people start hiding their number plates, of course. That happens a lot where I live for exactly that reason - the council drive round with a roof-mounted camera on the car, reading number plates and fining cars in loading bays, overstaying parking limits or parking on the pavement by double red lines, so you see illegally parked cars with bin bags taped the number plates.

 

We're wondering off topic here though.

[jthompson]

Tax wheels. Increase with radius, width and quantity. Motorised vehicles only.

 

The important bit is to actually allocate taxes raised by motor vehicles to road maintenance, which I suspect is definitely not what actually happens.

[enjay]

Tax wheels. Increase with radius, width and quantity. Motorised vehicles only.

 

That could lead to some really odd-looking cars, as manufacturers start making cars with tiny wheels to reduce the tax!

[Davit2005]

That could lead to some really odd-looking cars, as manufacturers start making cars with tiny wheels to reduce the tax!

 

The unladen Vehicle weight would be a better bet. Heavy vehicle more damage likely and more likely higher polution.

 

Probably straying off topic a bit :-)

[Koldov]

The important bit is to actually allocate taxes raised by motor vehicles to road maintenance, which I suspect is definitely not what actually happens.

 

https://www.osv.ltd.uk/where-does-vehicle-tax-go/#:~:text=Contrary%20to%20popular%20belief%2C%20road,did%20pay%20for%20our%20roads.

[enjay]

Probably straying off topic a bit :-)

 

"Probably"?!

[mavhc]

To the http://www.edugeek.net/forums/general-chat/212996-future-transport.html thread!

[LeMarchand]

So... my impressions a few months on. Much to my surprise, car drivers* do often seem to be giving more space to cyclists and staying behind them when not safe to overtake. Not to my surprise at all, the bad cyclists* are still bad. Much to my annoyance, some pedestrians seem to think this is a "Jaywalker's Charter" and really need to listen to Tufty or The Green Cross Man. Worst offenders tend to be young people glued to their phones and the sort of angry-looking older guys who you know would be shouting abuse at anyone who crossed in front of their Manlymobile.

 

*NB: This isn't all drivers or cyclists.

[Rob_D]

From my point of view (as mostly a cyclist) not a great deal has changed.

Most pedestrians mostly still look both ways before crossing the road (TBH we've been running campaigns to get students who walk to school to take out their headphones and pay attention for years).

Most car passes are good enough. Things still get a bit hairy as all the school drop-offs fight to get as close as possible to the front of the school (and still let the kids out the driver's side for some reason).

And other cyclists seem to be cycling along much as before (still see a bunch of school kids cycling on pavement).

 

Talking to one of the student admins before we broke up and apparently her daughter failed her driving test because she didn't slow for a pedestrian who was walking on the footpath by the road and might have tried to cross (admin was miffed as instructor had said this should only have been a minor) - so there are still some very odd interpretations out there.

[Davit2005]

Saved a child about 8yo from been run over the other night. Walking with older teen sibling was jus about to cross the road as a lorry was reversing in and I said hold on, he had stepped on to the road and his older sibling grabbed his hand to pull him back.

 

Drivers do seem to be giving cyclists more room now you still get some that have the attitude must get in front, there is bad on both sides as always and that will prob never change. A lot more awareness still needed drivers take too many risks for what will be a prob end up a few mins at most off their journey. Almost a head on last night between 2 cars, car behind a big van decided to get past a van waiting to turn right in Datchet, a lot of cars think nothing of going down the wrong side of the road there to get past cars waiting to turn right even though they cannot see enough to be clear.

Edited July 28, 2022 by Davit2005

[enjay]

So... my impressions a few months on. Much to my surprise, car drivers* do often seem to be giving more space to cyclists and staying behind them when not safe to overtake.

 

I've definitely noticed this when out cycling. I'm not sure if this is the new Highway Code rules or a post-lockdown thing where lots of people took up cycling and learned first-hand why what a close pass feels like, and that while 1.5 metres might look like loads of space when in a right-hand drive car, it looks much smaller when on a bike. Similarly, I think more drivers now understand why cyclists aren't tucked in to the edge of the road as they've learned what hitting even a small pothole is like. This is turns seems to have brought about greater complaining about and pressure on Councils to address road quality.

 

I still think the rule about pedestrians waiting to cross a minor side-road having priority over traffic turning off the major road is a little odd, especially on high-footfall sections of pavement, but I don't know how you'd actually define a better alternative.

[jmak]

I've definitely noticed this when out cycling. I'm not sure if this is the new Highway Code rules or a post-lockdown thing where lots of people took up cycling and learned first-hand why what a close pass feels like, and that while 1.5 metres might look like loads of space when in a right-hand drive car, it looks much smaller when on a bike. Similarly, I think more drivers now understand why cyclists aren't tucked in to the edge of the road as they've learned what hitting even a small pothole is like. This is turns seems to have brought about greater complaining about and pressure on Councils to address road quality.

 

I still think the rule about pedestrians waiting to cross a minor side-road having priority over traffic turning off the major road is a little odd, especially on high-footfall sections of pavement, but I don't know how you'd actually define a better alternative.

It's when exiting a roundabout that I find it most difficult to give priority to pedestrians waiting to cross. I'm always worried about someone driving into the back of me.