ESS SIMS 3 Year Contracts

[DrCheese]

They are developing some new cutting edge input method called an OCR

 

oh god you'll give me flashbacks with the OMR reader we had in reception for years. Pile of junk with it's serial connection.

[Linfit]

It is real and it is functioning - I saw it in use last week. I understand its working in a small number of primaries at the moment.

 

Their approach is to take small slices of functionality and produce browser based versions, so over time more functions will be available in the browser.

This is a hybrid system - it uses a cloud based database and the on site one which sync together and it doesn't remove any functionality from SIMS 7.

Logically, its probably the only way they could do it, but personally, I think it will take too long and they will bleed too many customers away before its made significant progress.

 

And this isn't a re-work of SIMS Primary - they have thrown that away and started again.

[paulkerton]

It is real and it is functioning - I saw it in use last week. I understand its working in a small number of primaries at the moment.

So a pilot then?

 

And this isn't a re-work of SIMS Primary - they have thrown that away and started again.

so they've thrown it away and started again, again.

 

They're so tied to their own legacy, they're too afraid to do the sensible thing and create a new system from scratch. Same reason as to why Promethean ActivInspire still lingers like a bad smell too.

[Linfit]

I don't think its a pilot so much as using live systems as beta testers - my understanding is that any primary can ask to start using the browser based bits, and then the additional functionality will just appear as it is developed.

 

But basically they are really stuck.

If they just started from scratch with a new cloud only code base it would take time before they could provide a working system - and they would still be way behind the other players and existing customers would not see any progress in the meantime.

 

Doing it this way, they can demonstrate they are doing something, the trouble is, too little, too late.

I can't see them having anything near the functionality that a secondary needs in any reasonable timescale, and that's not factoring in that competitors are all actively developing their products so they will always be playing catchup.

 

I've been using SIMS since the mid-nineties and I remember the old DOS-based blue menus and updates coming on floppy discs, but we are changing this year, just going through an evaluation with Bromcom and Arbor and will decide before end of summer term. Enough is enough.

[supportman]

The worst thing is, even when they catch up to other modern competitors (if thats even possible), they will still have all the legacy stuff and huge technical debt.

 

They are just building an upside down software pyramid, with a shiny cloud top layer. It's terrible project management and very short-sighted.

Edited May 27, 2022 by ZeroHour
OP Requested - ZH

[RLR]

The worst thing is, even when they catch up to other modern competitors (if thats even possible), they will still have all the legacy stuff and huge technical debt.

 

They are just building an upside down software pyramid, with a shiny cloud top layer. It's terrible project management and very short-sighted.

 

The whole company seems to be terribly managed. It took us month to get confirmation of the new terms of contracts because we've heard different things. It's like no one wanted to give us a straight answer or maybe no one knew. Not to mention their awful Reading Cloud system that hasn't had any changes since it was launched. I look forward to moving away from both these systems.

 

SIMs tried arguing with us that they're investing millions of pounds of their own money into updating the product but couldn't understand that it isn't their money as customers are being tied into a 3 year contract so it's effectively the customers investing into it.

Edited May 27, 2022 by ZeroHour
OP Requested - ZH

[JamesWeatherill]

Hi everyone, James from Arbor here.

 

Just in case you missed it, I wrote an open letter in Schoolsweek on Friday addressed to all schools who felt that they had been locked into 3 year contracts and didn’t have time to switch to an alternative MIS. https://arbor-education.com/blog-arbor-pay-for-one-promise/

 

To any schools, trusts or LAs who that applies to, I have good news! I don’t believe anyone should be prevented from switching MIS by your supplier, so as a result, we’ve launched our Pay-for-One Promise.

 

This is our commitment that a school should only pay for one MIS at a time. Put simply, if you’re locked into paying for SIMS, we won’t ask you to pay for your equivalent Arbor MIS license until that contract ends. This means you can switch immediately to start enjoying some of the benefits Arbor can bring without being out of pocket!

 

This stems from our belief that switching MIS is a real opportunity to help your staff work more flexibly, communicate better with your school community and better understand how your pupils are progressing.

 

To find out more, you can visit our page here: https://bit.ly/arbor-pay-for-one-promise

 

Or feel free to contact me personally - [email protected]

[supportman]

Hi everyone, James from Arbor here.

 

Just in case you missed it, I wrote an open letter in Schoolsweek on Friday addressed to all schools who felt that they had been locked into 3 year contracts and didn’t have time to switch to an alternative MIS. https://arbor-education.com/blog-arbor-pay-for-one-promise/

 

To any schools, trusts or LAs who that applies to, I have good news! I don’t believe anyone should be prevented from switching MIS by your supplier, so as a result, we’ve launched our Pay-for-One Promise.

 

This is our commitment that a school should only pay for one MIS at a time. Put simply, if you’re locked into paying for SIMS, we won’t ask you to pay for your equivalent Arbor MIS license until that contract ends. This means you can switch immediately to start enjoying some of the benefits Arbor can bring without being out of pocket!

 

This stems from our belief that switching MIS is a real opportunity to help your staff work more flexibly, communicate better with your school community and better understand how your pupils are progressing.

 

To find out more, you can visit our page here: https://bit.ly/arbor-pay-for-one-promise

 

Or feel free to contact me personally - [email protected]

 

Thats a brilliant and clever move. No schools really have an excuse now to not move.

 

Well done.

[NickDay85]

Hi all,

 

How is everyone getting on? Do we have any schools moving from SIMS after half term? We will be moving to Bromcom in September!

[bobsmith]

I phone Bromcom on average 5 times a week - but generally this is because of the hugely compressed training schedule we attempted when making the move at a breakneck pace.

 

Bromcom keeps impressing me with each new bit of automation or other cleverness which SIMS was simply incapable of.

 

I think anyone moving FROM Sims to any modern competitor system is going to see an improvement in workflow etc.

 

Staff here just got their first taste of marksheets in bromcom and we've had nothing but positive feedback about it. My attendance team are loving one click absence and lates messaging - and that's BEFORE we get to the fully automatic stuff like it triggering detentions and sending the parents their notifications.

[howartp]

Has anyone been invoiced for their April 2022 renewal yet?

 

We did register for the break-clause but won't be exercising it, but the recent email about that talks about a refund being issued - which implies we've already paid the invoice for the full 3 years by then.

 

Peter

[mthomas08]

We got an email with a quote attached. Very strange considering the previous emails all went through the 'Portal' for finance to logon and accept/deny.

 

Our SBM replied saying no thanks we've walked away. And I got the email trail to prove it.

[CyBeRkId2002]

Morning all,

 

I wondered if any schools had further information on the September 2022 breakout clause. I am specifically looking for information surrounding whether the 30th September is the termination date, or the date that notice must be submitted. If the former, when does notice need to be given by, if the later what is the actual termination date? 1 year from contract start?

[coping123]

Hi all

 

Sorry to hijack a little, but could do with some honest, frank views!

 

Currently, we are locked into SIMS, much like everyone else. However there is a total lack of urgency to move our MIS to another product, let alone Cloud. They simply will not move from SIMS, at least yet.

 

That means, for now, SIMS Connected will have to be the answer as we move away from servers.

 

Now I understand the downsides that come with SIMS Connected, in regards to lag, it using old tech (html5) etc.

But can anyone kindly elaborate on what more we can expect running SIMS connected and also probably even more importantly, the process and hurdles we can expect making this move to SIMS Connected? Is it a big deal? I have been linked to a technical guide from someone at SC, it rings alarm bells!

[mavhc]

How is HTML5 old tech?

[supportman]

How is HTML5 old tech?

 

Well its slow and last generation. Doing RDP over HTML5 was just a sticking plaster.

 

New systems are web cloud based, Real HTML5

[mavhc]

so it's RDP that's old tech, fair enough. Their advert of SIMs on an iPad is hilariously bad and they don't even realise

[LeMarchand]

Guessing a lot of people have made the leap, as we've just had a warning from one of the "connector" type apps peeps to say that they are now too busy to fulfil any "change MIS" type requests in September!

[sister_annex]

Guessing a lot of people have made the leap, as we've just had a warning from one of the "connector" type apps peeps to say that they are now too busy to fulfil any "change MIS" type requests in September!

That would be groupcall, we had the same yesterday, thankfully we booked ours in weeks back!

[LeMarchand]

That would be groupcall, we had the same yesterday, thankfully we booked ours in weeks back!

 

It was Xporter. Unless that is Groupcall, I'm guessing that this will be a common thing. My schools all switched to Arbor at least a year ago, so it doesn't affect us, he says smugly.

[supportman]

Yes lots of people leaving and moving MIS now, its a bit of a watershed moment in the industry.

 

The next census results will make interesting reading.

 

Glad we moved just after Covid

[Ditto]

Some early numbers on MIS movers from @bringmoredata at

- more too come soon.

[paulkerton]

Some early numbers on MIS movers from @bringmoredata at

- more too come soon.

 

That's a bit too early to have seen the effect of movers due to the SIMS 3-year bombshell as that was only dropped on people on November 30th/December 1st. So that's really the churn BEFORE that. The data for May is going to be fascinating.

[supportman]

Some early numbers on MIS movers from @bringmoredata at

- more too come soon.

 

Arbor the clear winner so far in picking up Sims Schools, well done to them!

 

iSams got no new schools which is also suprising...

 

Bromcom also quite low numbers picking up, but I feel that might get a good boost from their recent LEA win.

 

14,000+ schools still on Sims. The private equity fund will be pleased with that i'm guessing.

At that churn rate, they can spend another 10 years to develop a next generation app!

Edited July 7, 2022 by supportman

[Rob_D]

That's a bit too early to have seen the effect of movers due to the SIMS 3-year bombshell as that was only dropped on people on November 30th/December 1st. So that's really the churn BEFORE that. The data for May is going to be fascinating.

I'm almost certain that doesn't include the 100+ West Sussex schools who Bromcom got.