Is UK Fibre To The Cabinet fit for purpose?

[FN-GM]

Hello,

 

We are in the middle of a WAN rollout in both South Australia and Victoria. Most of our connections are fibre the the cabinet (or fibre the the node here). The infrastructure is called NBN and is government owned. Some of our sites are in small towns and the middle of nowhere and are getting just over 100 megabit connections. Some sites are throttled down to 50 megabit - this is due to DSL being the same area, once this is moved onto NBN the speed will increase.

 

This connection is the worst type they offer. There is also provide:

• Fibre to the curb
  
• HFC (coax like Virgin Media)
  
• Fibre To the premises.
  

 

I ordered an NBN connection for my house. For 50 megabit I pay around £25 per month. I placed the order at 11am and the connection was live at 1:15pm. The router hadn't yet arrived but ISP is open to you using your own equipment. During peak hours the speed doesn't drop below 40 megabit.

 

People complain about NBN here. But when I read this thread it reminded me how bad the UK system in in comparison: http://www.edugeek.net/forums/internet-related-filtering-firewall/217507-slt-want-faster-broadband.html

 

Why is it so bad in the UK? Is it because Open Reach is privately owned and doesn't see the same level of investment?

 

I would be interested to see what you guys think.

 

Cheers

Edited September 21, 2020 by FN-GM

[Localtechie]

https://www.techradar.com/uk/news/world-of-tech/how-the-uk-lost-the-broadband-race-in-1990-1224784#:~:text=Indeed%2C%20the%20first%20wide%20area,other%20telecom%20company%20could%20do.

 

Need I say more?

 

The issue with UK is even now 30mbps is defined as "superfast" so this ticks a government box. We get 25 but our wholesale checker shows 25-32 so this covers us apparently.

 

I have had to use QOS, restrict the Xbox to download at night. I've even downgraded our Netflix package from 4K to HD as one stream takes our whole internet down. There is no competition so nothing for Openreach to worry about. 30 is not enough in 2020 and isn't a target at all 100+ should be the minimum.

 

I think they are in for a rude awakening soon though, LEO satellites look promising and 5G even if I got 100mb would be a game changer in our house. As soon as I can ditch OR based network.

[free780]

My 100mbps Virgin Media connection copes fine with multiple HD streams. Playing fortnite etc. Is it just living in a remote town/village/hamlet just not cared about by BT Open reach?

[Guest Guest]

I have FTTC via Vispa and get the full 80Mbps, our area is currently having FTTP installed so hopefully I'll be upgrading to that soon [emoji3]

[localzuk]

In my view, the reason behind it is decades of "well, we're a monopoly, so we don't have to invest" thinking by BT/Openreach, then a lack of understanding of the importance of the internet by successive governments (obsession with roads and rail when internet is arguably more important these days), and an unwillingness to pay to upgrade the network (which in places has all sorts of weirdness). EU rules come into play a little too, with the obsession with privatising and outsourcing everything (or at least, the UK's interpretation of those rules). Our government has invested a couple of billion in rolling out a minimum speed connection to rural homes, instead wanting Openreach to do most of it commercially.

 

Whereas the NBN is being rolled out by a government owned company - NBN Co Ltd. Sure, they may private companies to do the work, but they do it as contractors rather than as outsourced providers like the UK gov and Openreach. The government has spent $51bn so far on the system.

 

All that said, the government did say they were committing to roll out FTTP to 15 million properties by 2025, and "nationwide" by 2033. Again, it will all be done by commercial providers, but with subsidies for a certain percentage of properties. That said, it does look like a lot of small companies are not waiting around any more and are building their own networks instead. I know Jurrasic Fibre are rolling out an FTTP network in Taunton and Honiton down this way. Exascale are building in Telford and Wrekin, CityFibre have started rolling out into villages near Warrington etc... So, Openreach is slowly having its monopoly nibbled away at.

[Rob_D]

Box and Hey have just rolled out FTTP round here. We signed up their 100mb (synchronous) connection (they go up to 1gb sync), and rock 95+mb pretty much the whole time.

 

It looks like these sort of projects are on the rise so will hopefully give openreach a the kick-in-the-pants they need to up their game.

[supportman]

I'd be careful about generalising, I'm on virgin media 500mbit here!

 

No complaints (other than the constant price rises but you just phone up and they put them down again).

 

Virgin have 14 million broadband customers which is about a third of the countries properties.

 

BT are rolling out fibre to the home as well with around 1.5 million properties now connected.

Edited September 22, 2020 by supportman

[FishCustard]

I'd be careful about generalising, I'm on virgin media 500mbit here!

 

Likewise, but then I live in London rather than a rural area. I honestly thought NBN was abysmal and people hated it. Just goes to show one should be careful judging something you've not experienced!

[FN-GM]

I thought Virgin was HFC / Coax rather than FTTC using traditional BT copper pairs?

[birchanger]

I'm on vDSL and get about 68/19, but I could upgrade to 300Mbs download here on Zen. This is over Openreach FTTC. I never find 68Mbps limiting. I was downloading Linux distros yesterday and found the time required perfectly acceptable.

 

Gigaclear also operate in the village with FTTP at up to 1Gb, but I really don't want to spend £75/month or leave the comfort of Zen's great support.

 

I think it unfair to blame BT, as well. They're a private company. If the Government wanted them to act as a charity and subsidise their competitors they shouldn't have sold them off. As it is anyone can put down their own infrastructure and have access to Openreach's resources in the exchange guaranteed by law, as Virgin, Gigaclear and others have done.

Edited September 22, 2020 by birchanger

[IGB]

I have Gigaclear FTTP at 900Mbs up/down, whislt it rarely gets above 700Mbs I don't complain as it's more than enough for our household needs and we effectivley line on an island with the river Severn onse side of the village and the river Frome to the front of the house, a canal behind us and all cut off with the Gloucester <> Sharpness canal.

Previous speed records on copper ADSL2+ was 14Mbs from a business class ISP at not much less than the price Gigaclear are currenlty charging.

I also had an indroductory £20 per month discount for the 3 year contract as well.

[chazzy2501]

Jurassic fiber is here in Beaminster end of 2021. apparently up to 950Mbps a nice upgrade from our VDSL 80/20.

[Davit2005]

Think my renewal with BT is up in 8 months so will look to get FTTP.

 

Currently getting 48/16 but I'm more interested in upload anyway.

 

Those of you on FTTP what routers are you using? I use a DrayTek 2860 for my current vDSL, it has a 1GB WAN port I think so I'm considering just using that.

Edited October 15, 2020 by Davit2005

[Rob_D]

Those of you on FTTP what routers are you using? I use a DrayTek 2860 for my current vDSL, it has a 1GB WAN port I think so I'm considering just using that.

 

On Box Boradband we've been given the Nokia G240w. After they sent me the good admin password (the "userAdmin" one printed on the back of the router didn't let me change anything), it was easy to get set up so it could just drop in, in place of the ubiquity edge-router I was using before. So far we've not had any problems with it (touch wood).

If you're FTTP is the similar to mine, you'd need a router with an optical port to replace the vender tech (alternatively you might be able to set up the vendor router to bridge directly to your DrayTek one), as it's just fiber cable going straight into the router/hub unit.

[andy_b]

It's nice to have choices....

 

I live in Birmingham, and have the choice of Virgin or a guaranteed 6-11 Mbps

[localzuk]

Jurassic fiber is here in Beaminster end of 2021. apparently up to 950Mbps a nice upgrade from our VDSL 80/20.

They're rolling their stuff out in Taunton too. One of their guys lives across the road from me and parks his van there. But they're not rolling it out in the village we live in, which has about the same population as Beaminster...

[Davit2005]

On Box Boradband we've been given the Nokia G240w. After they sent me the good admin password (the "userAdmin" one printed on the back of the router didn't let me change anything), it was easy to get set up so it could just drop in, in place of the ubiquity edge-router I was using before. So far we've not had any problems with it (touch wood).

If you're FTTP is the similar to mine, you'd need a router with an optical port to replace the vender tech (alternatively you might be able to set up the vendor router to bridge directly to your DrayTek one), as it's just fiber cable going straight into the router/hub unit.

 

Sounds good I may just use the DrayTek in the same fashion. I have a business package with 5 IPs and a /56 IPv6 range. I have 2 firewalls sitting behind the DrayTek which do the NAT etc in a HA pair cause I do like over complicating things, lol.

[synaesthesia]

Ditto here, we have Virgin or crap FTTC. Obviously, I'm on FTTC because Virgin is a total crockpot of unreliability and awful service.

[Davit2005]

Ditto here, we have Virgin or crap FTTC. Obviously, I'm on FTTC because Virgin is a total crockpot of unreliability and awful service.

 

Same experience here. Although both BT and Virgin can be as bad as one another personally my experience with VM has been bad as a home user and a user of their educational ISP offering in our area.

 

Hopefully FTTP is just around the corner.

[MatthewL]

I think FTTC is fit for purpose, although some of the options available in some areas is poor.

 

So for example, my Dad lives in a village is on PlusNet ADSL, connection does him, he gets about 15Mb down, due to the way the FTTC cabs are as it was an exchange online line he would only get 20Mb where he is, that package would cost him more and he's happy with what he has.

My brother lives on a main road served by Virgin but as the houses are set off on a private road they won't install so options are limited to FTTC but can pick providers, he went with PlusNet as they have been reliable and it only costs him less than £10 a month due to the package he has gone on.

Me, I live about a mile from my brother, have Virgin and BT available but BT is not FTTC, cabinet is about 300m from my house, ADSL is about 5mb due to distance from exchange. So my only option for speed is Virgin, I'd quite happily move to a FTTC provider as VM is poor even though its a 200Mb connection the drop outs are unreal but thats another story. I'd just like the choice at home, BT won't upgrade at VM are here.

 

Now if you look at B4RN and what they have done, surely the bigger companies like BT and VM can follow in their footsteps? I think the money investing in fibre (true fibre) to all homes would be worth the investment. Would reduce some of the older kit the companies have to maintain with standard stuff that is everywhere. I've looked at getting fibre installed but the costs are unreal but then you look at KCom and their light stream connections they've got the right idea and their costs are pretty good I think for what you get just shame about other things with them!

 

For me I just want a good 100Mb connection and decent upload and be able to have a choice who from and not pay through the roof.

[XiJ]

We have crap fttc or Virgin here. To be fair can’t fault virgin - it’s been about as solid and stable as you get. I use their modem and a Mikrotik router. 200/20

 

Openreach are laying fttp right now though. Lines of back to back vans around. At the very least I can true my play BT against Virgin at renewal time

[Primus]

Have to say I'm shocked how many people aren't happy with VM - I've had VM for years and it's been stunningly reliable in a variety of locations (as I moved house etc.)

[FN-GM]

Why is the UK FTTC slow compared to Australia? Is in the connection between the exchange and cabinet or between the cabinet and the premises?

[MatthewL]

It's not true fibre, still relying on the copper from cabinet to property that is why.

 

I never had any issues with VM till earlier this year I just think they haven't got the capacity, the network is dated in places. I'm only with them for speed, been so tempted to move to purely 4G connection recently as can get something from EE far more reliable.

[FN-GM]

It's not true fibre, still relying on the copper from cabinet to property that is why.

 

They do this in Australia and we can get 100meg + on a pair of copper (providing DSL is retired on the cabinet).

 

Something I have noted. In Australia if you want an old school phone line you use VOIP connected via the router. In the UK you can still connect a PSTN phone via the wall jack.

Edited October 16, 2020 by FN-GM