SmoothWall Change of Notice Period to 90 days - Be Aware!

[smarties11]

Hi All,

 

SmoothWall e-mailed customers on the 23rd May to notify them of an immediate change to their Terms and Conditions. Be aware if you have a contract with SmoothWall, that the notice period required for termination of the contract has moved from 30 days to 90 days. This will obviously need factoring in to any procurement exercises.

 

4.1 The Agreement shall continue for the Initial Term unless terminated earlier in accordance with the terms of the Agreement. At the end of the Initial Term and each subsequent Renewal Term, the Agreement will automatically renew for a further 12 months (the Renewal Term), unless the Customer confirms in writing that it will not renew, at least 90 days before the expiry of the Initial Term or Renewal Term (as applicable). Smoothwall reserves the right to update the Prices payable under this Agreement in accordance with its then current standard charges on commencement of each Renewal Term.

Edited June 5, 2019 by smarties11

[synaesthesia]

Oooh that's interesting. We had to fight them from one of my primaries when they were trying to say they needed 90 days notice as opposed to 30 days, and now that comes to light. Interesting!

[smarties11]

Oooh that's interesting. We had to fight them from one of my primaries when they were trying to say they needed 90 days notice as opposed to 30 days, and now that comes to light. Interesting!

 

Seems crazy to me! If you're using it as a UTM as we do then that's a major piece of the network puzzle - I'd want to spend 2 or 3 months on a procurement exercise looking at alternatives, arranging trials, making sure it was fit for purpose etc - add on 3 months notice period and it means you're having to look at alternatives 6 months into your existing contract?!

 

The SmoothWall line is that this is in the interests of their vulnerable users, as cutting off services when a customer doesn't make their renewal intentions known to them would leave them un-monitored. Which makes no sense at all - as in this scenario they would just renew the contract if 30 days notice isn't given, as per their previous T&Cs. I don't see how increasing this to 90 days from 30 is of any benefit to the customer at all - but SmoothWall say that they have made this change on the advice of their customers who prefer this model?

[Edu-IT]

How can they change it part way through, unless I've misunderstood?

[smarties11]

How can they change it part way through, unless I've misunderstood?

 

Nope, you've not misunderstood. E-mail received on the 23rd May says....

 

Hi there,

I'm writing to inform you that we have made some important updates to our UK Terms & Conditions that you need to be aware of.

These updates apply to your current contract and are effective immediately. Please take some time to read the documentation by clicking on the link below and familiarise yourself with the changes.

If you have any questions please do not hesitate to contact me. I'd be happy to help.

 

New T&Cs - https://smoothwall.com/uk-terms-and-conditions/ (I'm told that ONLY point 4.1 has changed)

[Edu-IT]

I'd be interested to know how they could do that mid-contract and force you to agree it, especially as it is to your detriment? Anybody have any legal contacts who could advise? If it's that easy to change contractual terms and conditions they could do anything at any point.

[localzuk]

Legally? I'm not sure they can. Well, not if someone decided to challenge it. One side of a contract cannot unilaterally change the contract to the detriment of the other side without their agreement. Doing so allows for the harmed side to end the contract from the moment the new "terms" come into effect. Its why, when some mobile phone providers decided to change their terms, loads of people ended their contract on the spot because they can't be held to it.

 

Loads of companies have tried stuff like this and have lost when they've been challenged on it.

[FishCustard]

The SmoothWall line is that this is in the interests of their vulnerable users, as cutting off services when a customer doesn't make their renewal intentions known to them would leave them un-monitored. Which makes no sense at all - as in this scenario they would just renew the contract if 30 days notice isn't given, as per their previous T&Cs. I don't see how increasing this to 90 days from 30 is of any benefit to the customer at all - but SmoothWall say that they have made this change on the advice of their customers who prefer this model?

 

What a load of codswallop.

[Edu-IT]

Legally? I'm not sure they can. Well, not if someone decided to challenge it. One side of a contract cannot unilaterally change the contract to the detriment of the other side without their agreement. Doing so allows for the harmed side to end the contract from the moment the new "terms" come into effect. Its why, when some mobile phone providers decided to change their terms, loads of people ended their contract on the spot because they can't be held to it.

 

Loads of companies have tried stuff like this and have lost when they've been challenged on it.

Thought as much... so if you’re on the old terms I would be arguing the above if you choose to cancel in the future.

 

I’m sure Smoothwall will be along to comment soon enough.

[Sylv3r]

I wonder if they start sending the renewals through as a reminder after say 120 days rather than 30?

[TDupont992]

I'm fairly certain legally that's just not kosher to change it mid contract. Surely it'll have to come into effect upon renewal and they're just hoping no one notices. I imagine this must be due to Smoothwall feeling some sort of pressure? Edited June 6, 2019 by TDupont992

[witch]

@ibpalle Any comments?

[PrimaryNetMan]

This practice has to stop. Suppliers now realise that schools and academies are having to be more vigilant with regards best value and look at options at every renewal rather than let thing roll over as may have happened in the past. This is just a way for them to look the school in. Depending on the service and schools process, they may need to be obtaining quotes etc another 90 days prior to the renewal date.

 

Have found this practise with a number of support services. No communication apart from the renewal invoice after the the 90 notice. Usually with a price hike at the same time, just like

Smoothwall reserves the right to update the Prices payable under this Agreement in accordance with its then current standard charges on commencement of each Renewal Term.

and then it's basically tough, all you get is our terms blah blah....

 

IMO auto renewing contracts for schools should not be allowed and schools should make it part of their procurement policy that such vendors should not be used.

[Opendium_Steve]

Many companies do frequently make unilateral changes to their T&Cs mid-contract - they can get away with that because they give you the option of leaving the contract immediately without penalty if you don't like the change. Obviously this can be good if you wanted to get out of the contract anyway, but for everyone else it basically means you need to accept the T&Cs or switch to another vendor very quickly.

 

This one sounds like a very odd change to unilaterally push onto everyone instead of just bringing the new terms into effect when each contract is renewed... I wonder if SW have been losing a lot of customers recently and are trying to stem the flow (which I guess this change will do temporarily, but in the long run it seems counter productive to p*ss off your customers like this...)

Edited June 6, 2019 by Opendium_Steve

[Edu-IT]

Many companies do frequently make unilateral changes to their T&Cs mid-contract - they can get away with that because they give you the option of leaving the contract immediately without penalty if you don't like the change. Obviously this can be good if you wanted to get out of the contract anyway, but for everyone else it basically means you need to accept the T&Cs or switch to another vendor very quickly.

 

This one sounds like a very odd change to unilaterally push onto everyone instead of just bringing the new terms into effect when each contract is renewed... I wonder if SW have been losing a lot of customers recently and are trying to stem the flow (which I guess this change will do temporarily, but in the long run it seems counter productive to p*ss off your customers like this...)

There's no mention of being able to leave penalty free through, as a result of this change.

 

Surely Smoothwall will have had somebody check this over legally before they announced it?

[Opendium_Steve]

Surely Smoothwall will have had somebody check this over legally before they announced it?

You'd think... All I can say is that we got an unusually large flurry of enquiries from schools wanting to replace their filtering shortly after this was announced, so it looks like this may be backfiring on them a little bit :-/

[DrCheese]

Haha, they can go pound sand with this. You can't randomly change existing pre-agreed contracts without both sides agreeing to it. This is awful business practise anyway and their justification is a load of rubbish. It's solely to stop schools from looking elsewhere 3 months before renewal - There's no other reason.

 

Smoothwall - Stop it. You make a good product but stuff like this is letting you down.

[houlta]

I'm curious as I'll be taking over a site shortly with smoothwall running on a vm which I detest compared to dedicated hardware... but does anyone know the current pricing model with UTM?

[caffrey]

Just put your notice in, and say you will review come end of contract - that's what I've done

[TDupont992]

I'm curious as I'll be taking over a site shortly with smoothwall running on a vm which I detest compared to dedicated hardware... but does anyone know the current pricing model with UTM?

 

I think it varies depending on a few factors like # of pupils and maybe some negotiating but I think around £2.5-3k

 

I thinks that's a loooot of money and a most of it'll be on the dedicated hardware itself AS WELL as the price of the support contract they roll into it. I'm of the belief you can get a Cloud based solution for probs around half that per year which offer the same level, if not better levels of functionality than a smoothie box.

Edited June 6, 2019 by TDupont992

[caffrey]

In the past I've just bought a cheap recon server from ICT-Direct and ran it on that

[houlta]

I think it varies depending on a few factors like # of pupils and maybe some negotiating but I think around £2.5-3k

 

I thinks that's a loooot of money and a most of it'll be on the dedicated hardware itself AS WELL as the price of the support contract they roll into it. I'm of the belief you can get a Cloud based solution for probs around half that per year which offer the same level, if not better levels of functionality than a smoothie box.

Hmmm just a resource hogging vm at the new site at the moment, but if it is 3k a year I may be getting rid of it

[Andycat]

Our 5 year (LA ordered) contract runs out next March, so will be looking around. Happy to hear experiences of other providers privately please!

[TDupont992]

Our 5 year (LA ordered) contract runs out next March, so will be looking around. Happy to hear experiences of other providers privately please!

 

With this new notice period you'd have to start looking before Christmas likely, as January would be too late and you'd be locked in. But then no one is going to be looking at renewing contracts for the next year before going on Christmas holidays :/ It's just really frustrating and seems exploitative

[Katy]

With this new notice period you'd have to start looking before Christmas likely, as January would be too late and you'd be locked in. But then no one is going to be looking at renewing contracts for the next year before going on Christmas holidays :/ It's just really frustrating and seems exploitative

 

Depends how it's worded (haven't read them yet), if it is "at least 90 days" then give notice way in advance stating the end of contract date as the termination date, then if you end up wanting to stick with them just manually renew.