Refurbished kit for schools - what's the oldest Intel CPU you would buy?

[DrBeaker]

All,

 

When looking at refurbished kit for schools - what's the oldest Intel CPU you would all consider buying. To me now I would think nothing less than a 4th gen i3/i5. Currently on Windows 8.1 so would need to work on that OS before upgrading to Windows 10.

 

Would a 2nd gen/3rd gen i3/i5 be too old now, considering the wear and tear on the units if they're refurbs? What are everyone's thoughts?

 

Thanks

[Katy]

My 2nd gen i3s are 6 years old, the desktops probably have a few years life left in them (4GB RAM and 128GB SSDs). The 2nd gen i3 laptops, only fit for the bin really.

 

If I was buying refurb kit today I'd probably want a 4th gen, possibly 3rd gen if it made the difference between being able to afford it or not. Probably wouldn't go for a 2nd gen.

[caffrey]

Probably Gen 3 (HP 8300), But Gen 4 if i can find them cheap enough (G1 is still a bit expensive...) Edited December 4, 2018 by caffrey

[Saints]

HP8300 or maybe 800 G1 with SSD and 8 GB ram fine for me. Esp as can get 3 year warranty with them.

[3s-gtech]

Problem with Sandybridge (2nd gen If you like) is the aupporting chipsets - no USB 3.0 natively. I'd not get anything pre Haswell (4th) now simply due to age and some progress - we were buying SB stuff three years ago so we need some progression.

[FN-GM]

Problem with Sandybridge (2nd gen If you like) is the aupporting chipsets - no USB 3.0 natively. I'd not get anything pre Haswell (4th) now simply due to age and some progress - we were buying SB stuff three years ago so we need some progression.

 

I agree with this statement. 4th Gen is our minimum baseline.

 

This year with refurbished some 4th Gen All In Ones with SSD and 8GB RAM and returned them t service for a few extra years. The rest of the stock has either left or is going to soon.

[PotNoodleTech]

Still running 1st and 2nd Gen here. TO be honest, with 4GB ram and a 128GB SSD they are fine for general use. Anything more would not be a wise use of finite funding resources. In DT, ART, IT I would prefer to have much newer i5s, but beggars can't be choosers!

[synaesthesia]

Still run a batch of 2nd and 3rd gen i3/i5's and they're still wonderful to use. When buying there's little consideration or need to worry over the processors in respect of their age unless they're for intensive use areas like the aforementioned DT/Art in which case we'll plump for something slightly more recent. I'd still have no quarms about running Solidworks on a 2nd gen i5 though, with 4gb ram and an SSD it still flies at exactly the same speed as the same type gen 5 or 6 processor.

[FN-GM]

Still run a batch of 2nd and 3rd gen i3/i5's and they're still wonderful to use. When buying there's little consideration or need to worry over the processors in respect of their age unless they're for intensive use areas like the aforementioned DT/Art in which case we'll plump for something slightly more recent. I'd still have no quarms about running Solidworks on a 2nd gen i5 though, with 4gb ram and an SSD it still flies at exactly the same speed as the same type gen 5 or 6 processor.

 

But would you buy new machines with a 2nd gen CPU?

[ICTDirect_Dave]

Just a quick note from a supplier POV.

 

We have deemed second gen i3 machines to be too old for the last 12 months, and I'd expect us to stop selling 2nd gen i5 machines this year.

Supplies of these are now at a trickle which tells me Their time is nearly up.

 

3rd Gen kit (HP 8300 etc) has now dropped into the more affordable category. I'm soon going to be able to offer the 8300 with new ssd for around £180 and third gen i3's for around £120.

This is because we are now into the main bulk of available used 3rd gen machines. We're seeing hundreds of them on lists now.

Having tested them extensively, we're finding that 3rd gen machines still have a place in education especially with a decent ssd.

 

4th Gen have become much more affordable this year and as some of you have said, they're beginning to be our standard offering when quoting desktops as they balance the price, performance and age quite nicely.

 

Looking into next year I think we'll see plenty of refurb options for 6th Gen kit. We're seeing a trickle of this now which is usually a sign that in 8-12 months they'll be a mainstream unit for us.

[synaesthesia]

But would you buy new machines with a 2nd gen CPU?

 

If the price reflected that yes, and I would also concur with Dave above; i5 yes, without batting an eyelid, but i3 maybe not. We generally use passmark as our "go to" benchmark and dont go anything under 4000, and 6000 for anything more intensive.

[ColonelPanic]

We've got 200-300 2nd gen i5s still in use (2300s, 2500s).

 

They're more than capable for both classroom and office use (8GB memory for classrooms, 4GB for offices).

The biggest speed difference we noticed was fitting them with SSDs, and that applies to all the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gen intel PCs we have

 

Edit: All running W10 1709/1803

Edited December 4, 2018 by ColonelPanic

[crc-ict]

The biggest speed difference we noticed was fitting them with SSDs, and that applies to all the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gen intel PCs we have

 

Edit: All running W10 1709/1803

 

This 100%. For general everyday use (so non-CPU intensive applications), SSD vs HDD will make the biggest difference to the feeling of speed of a machine.

 

I'm still running my 2nd gen i5-2500k at home and processor speed is not an issue, even with things like flight simulators etc. That CPU still benchmarks well against more modern lower-end replacements.

 

I'm only considering replacement because of the crabby old motherboard it sits on - blew up my nice original Z chipset board and had to replace with a secondhand Intel H chipset board, but got conned and ended up with one with the 'Sandy Bridge recall' flaw so the disk access jams up for several seconds every-so-often.

[bald_pig]

Just buy the newest generation you can afford, preferably i5 or above.

[DrBeaker]

Thanks for all of the responses folks. The short reason for the post is this:

 

Just to point out this is how I've inherited the situation from a predecessor, and quite frankly seemingly a lot of neglect of the IT systems over the years I'm now trying to unpick.

 

The school currently has nearly 90% of classrooms and IT suites as RM PCs that are 10x years old. Otherwise there's a few 5-6 year old Dells around, but that's pretty much it.

The main complaint is obviously slow machines, but the ones that are 10x years old there's nothing else I can do to "speed things up". Already tried the SSD/RAM route with negligible difference, so they're really at the point of no return now.

 

We've not got the budget to replace en-mass unfortunately, so will be looking at doing it in phases and probably looked at refurbished kit purely due to costs. Obviously I don't really want to be buying something and then replacing it again in 1-2 years time if I can help it, but that might be the case just to keep things ticking over.

 

Anyone else been in a similar situation?

[synaesthesia]

Often. I think it's important to plan ahead as much as you can without a crystal ball; some people oddly will replace kit as soon as it hits a certain age regardless of reliability, performance or TCO which is crazy, especially in today's climate. If it's fit for purpose and you have a route to upgrade it, you're already half way there.

80% of our computers are hodge-podges of upgrades in 15 year old RM cases & power supplies. We are starting to get more and more refurbs in with mandatory SSDs; the only thing I tend to look at with those is what the upgrade path is, so I try and stay clear of HP's as they are built to be disposable as opposed to Dells (other than the ultra SFF models) which use standard ATX/mATX hardware and you could change out the entire insides if you wanted to. It's suprising how much you can cram in when you don't have to pay 30-40 each time for a chassis.

[localzuk]

some people oddly will replace kit as soon as it hits a certain age regardless of reliability, performance or TCO which is crazy, especially in today's climate.

It is not crazy, not at all. A fixed replacement cycle is there to make sure you get machines upgraded. If you wait until machines die or whatever, you may find yourself in the situation one of our schools did - old machines all dying roughly the same time, and then you definitely don't have the budget to replace them all...

 

A fixed replacement cycle should match capability though. i5 desktops have a good 6 or 7 year life expectancy, if they've got SSDs in them, so there's no need to be setting such a replacement cycle at 3 or 5 years. But if you buy slower machines, then you're going to find they age quicker, and your cycle should reflect this.

 

Good planning will allow you to spread your replacement costs across that same period of time - so you don't have some years where your costs are double other years.

 

Regarding refurbished equipment - I have looked at it, and we run 1 suite of refurb machines running as thin clients, but other than that I just can't see the justification for buying refurbs - you end up having to replace them sooner! I'm not sure the TCO adds up.

[Disease]

If the price reflected that yes, and I would also concur with Dave above; i5 yes, without batting an eyelid, but i3 maybe not. We generally use passmark as our "go to" benchmark and dont go anything under 4000, and 6000 for anything more intensive.

 

Are those benchmark scores for the CPU only? What specs do you run as I ran passmark on our i5 machines and was getting just over 1000 as an overall score but just short of 4000 for CPU.

[synaesthesia]

Those aren't benchmark scores, we just refer to the passmark site to spec up suitable machines, i.e. https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i5-7200U+%40+2.50GHz

[AlanD]

I don't think there is a single one size fits all. I have never liked i3 processors. Always thought they seem just fine with a veneer install, but by the time you install RM (I think the OP said it was an RM school) and antivirus and various bits that impact on performance they always seem sluggish...and even 3 years down the line you are itching to replace them. i5 always seem to last much better. And yes, seem over the top to start with - but buy are you glad you bought them when they are still working just fine 7 or 8 years later. Makes it well worth spending an extra hundred or so at the start.

 

And Yes, its not just the CPU....2GB of ram is simply useless for Win10 (and seriously impacts Win7 performance). 4GB is an absolute minimum...and I'd want 6 to 8 in a new PC today because I know that 5 years down the road it won't seem like too much.

 

And yes, SSDs make so much difference I wouldn't think of a new PC without that.

 

Having PCs that book in a minute or so in the classroom can make so much difference.