Maglocks on behaviour corridor with break glass

[WorksOnMyPC]

Afternoon all,

 

Were having a nightmare at the moment with mag locks on our behaviour corridor. We have 2 doors with paxton readers on both sides and the ACU's are directly connected to the fire panel so in the event of a fire alarm the doors disengage. No reliance on any software just cables.

 

The issue is the pupils from day 1 would press the emergency release glass in to "escape". Which then resulted in a cat and mouse game with IT, caretakers and teachers resetting the doors every 30 mins. We then purchased squealers as a deterrent and as you would expect they just lift them up and press the emergency exit button. Its gotten so bad that the buttons now cant be reset without taking them off the wall, the pupils have pushed them in hard to many times.

 

I suppose my question is do we need the emergency glass if theirs a fire alarm point in the same corridor? I appreciate this a behaviour issue but that's a different post for another day....

 

Thanks in advance,

Chris

[NB9457]

Afternoon all,

 

Were having a nightmare at the moment with mag locks on our behaviour corridor. We have 2 doors with paxton readers on both sides and the ACU's are directly connected to the fire panel so in the event of a fire alarm the doors disengage. No reliance on any software just cables.

 

The issue is the pupils from day 1 would press the emergency release glass in to "escape". Which then resulted in a cat and mouse game with IT, caretakers and teachers resetting the doors every 30 mins. We then purchased squealers as a deterrent and as you would expect they just lift them up and press the emergency exit button. Its gotten so bad that the buttons now cant be reset without taking them off the wall, the pupils have pushed them in hard to many times.

 

I suppose my question is do we need the emergency glass if theirs a fire alarm point in the same corridor? I appreciate this a behaviour issue but that's a different post for another day....

 

Thanks in advance,

Chris

 

I'd say yes you need them, as it's not just fires they could be needed for, that are other scenarios that could result in someone needing to evacuate a building.

 

At the end of the day, it's management and discipline. There's not much more you can do. I assume you have CCTV/know which children are causing the issues, so I'd leave it with senior management. Setting off any break glass call points here, with no real emergency, results in exclusion, parents brought in and billed and the pupil being put on report/monitored. It is quite serious.

[pavlovs_dog]

We have key switches on the door releases in the most vulnerable areas instead of a break glass, which all staff have a key to; in the event of a fire alarm the doors automatically release anyway.

We have risk assessments in place and this has all been check by the council's Health and Safety team.

[nicholab]

Take away the break glass and have a fire relay to the doors that then release them.

[Edu-IT]

Can I piggy back on this a little and ask whether anyone knows if a fire relay connection is required, if there is a break glass? I’m pretty sure its not compulsory.

[MartinRouterKing]

Can I piggy back on this a little and ask whether anyone knows if a fire relay connection is required, if there is a break glass? I’m pretty sure its not compulsory.

 

I was told a break glass is always needed but I fire relay isn’t if their is a manual override.

 

We have having all these problems at the moment with safeguarding and health and safety.

 

You can meet safeguarding standards but can’t meet health and safety or you meet health and safety but can’t meet safeguarding it’s a nightmare!

[nicholab]

I would consider changing a reset fee to parents? Also I just why don’t these kids get it if they don’t learn they won’t have that BMW on the drive that they want! Edited November 7, 2017 by nicholab

[Edu-IT]

I was told a break glass is always needed but I fire relay isn’t if their is a manual override.

 

We have having all these problems at the moment with safeguarding and health and safety.

 

You can meet safeguarding standards but can’t meet health and safety or you meet health and safety but can’t meet safeguarding it’s a nightmare!

Yes, that’s sort of how my question came about. So manual override in this instance is the break glass or are you installing something else too?

[LukeRowberry]

We went through this recently as long as they disengage in a fire and there is a fire call point accessible you can do a risk assessment and remove the release glass option

[jimmy_2k]

In my last school, they had the same problem. The Premises Manager took all of the break glasses away and this stopped it. During an evacuation, I used to have the job of checking that the doors were unlocked and open during an evacuation.

[Andrew_C]

During an evacuation, I used to have the job of checking that the doors were unlocked and open during an evacuation.

Not good enough. What happens (in a real fire) if you are at he other end of site? Off ill? ALL exit doors must "fail safe".

[robyholmes]

Our doors are released by the Paxton software in the case of a fire, but we still have 'break glass' releases on each door. This have alarms on them and operate an input on the Net2 controller. A rule then is configured to send an email to facilities, IT and student support staff if the emergency exit button is pressed.

 

We also have rules were by students leaving during lessons are let out, but emails are sent to support staff so they can make a judgement about it. Our site and locations means we can't have a closed site (Fencing etc) but we're split building. So keeping track on students leaving site is difficult and this helps.

[pete]

On our setup (just down the road from you), we just have our gates/doors linked to the fire alarm without any other emergency button. The one location where you could (theoretically) get locked in is connected via intercom to a desk that's manned from 8am > 4:30.

 

Do you have an emergency button for the doors and a fire alarm call point in the same corridor? If so and you removed the emergency button, would your kids just hit the fire alarm instead?

[FishCustard]

Do you have an emergency button for the doors and a fire alarm call point in the same corridor? If so and you removed the emergency button, would your kids just hit the fire alarm instead?

We've had about one fire alarm activation a day in the past week or so due to a particular cretin (now caught) so I wouldn't dismiss that possibility.

[Accura2k7]

None of our paxtons controlled doors have the green break away openers. We are a new build, fully fire tested and approved. I dont think it is a requirement as the doors automatically open in the event of a fire that is not reliant on software control.

 

This system is tried and tested here, termly evacs to test things, no problems.

 

I would speak to your local fire safety people and check, but as I say, for us in a new build, we did not need the break glass to release door panels.

 

On a side note, 95% of our fire breaks are key operated, with keys being out of reach of our lovelies to stop them just setting off fire alarms at their will, and all staff being issued with a fire key as an additional precaution.

 

We are a special school though, so may be a little different in requirements?

[jimmy_2k]

In my last school, they had the same problem. The Premises Manager took all of the break glasses away and this stopped it. During an evacuation, I used to have the job of checking that the doors were unlocked and open during an evacuation.

 

Not good enough. What happens (in a real fire) if you are at he other end of site? Off ill? ALL exit doors must "fail safe".

 

The doors were primarily set to unlock via the fire alarm. If for any reason the locks didn't release or someone forgot to unlock the door that day, someone would be on hand to check they were open. If I was off, one of the techs would do it.