Windows 10 S

[liveman2]

https://www.theverge.com/2017/5/2/15506378/microsoft-windows-10-s-os-operating-system-announced-features

 

What are peoples thoughts on this? The provisioning looks really efficient as quoted - "A school in Colarado setup 600 PC's in one day".

[localzuk]

At the moment, no way. The available apps on the store are few and far between. There's a *lot* of work for developers to do before that system is of much use around here.

[FN-GM]

I agree with @localzuk - I have a feeling it will send up like Windows 8 RT

 

600 devices is a lot, ignoring the technical side I can't see how they can manage that in a day unless they have loads of people working on it.

[ellsandell]

At the moment, no way. The available apps on the store are few and far between. There's a *lot* of work for developers to do before that system is of much use around here.

I admit I'm not a developer, however project centennial sounds like it's remarkably easy to bring Win32 apps into the store. But obviously not a automatic process, so there is obviously still work to do.

 

I can see the Home SKU being replaced by this one eventually as the Chromebook has proven - many just want something that works.

 

Suspect it may confuse the consumer initially. [emoji51]

[Arthur]

Suspect it may confuse the consumer initially.

Definitely. Some consumers are going to search for their favourite apps in the Store and be unable to find them...

 

https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/859502015935905792

[localzuk]

I admit I'm not a developer, however project centennial sounds like it's remarkably easy to bring Win32 apps into the store. But obviously not a automatic process, so there is obviously still work to do.

I can see the Home SKU being replaced by this one eventually as the Chromebook has proven - many just want something that works.

Suspect it may confuse the consumer initially. [emoji51]

The thing is, developers are somewhat demand driven. At the moment, they have a customer base that has always used Win32 programs. Microsoft has launched something new, and at first there will be no demand for apps, because there's no-one using the OS. So, they will look at that cost of packaging things up as a waste of time, and instead will just put "Windows 10 Home/Pro/Edu/Ent only!" on their products.

 

So, regardless of how easy the process is, it is still a cost - a cost that will have to be paid for somehow.

 

Also, take into account another major issue - Microsoft take a cut of all sales on their store! Many education providers don't currently face those costs...

[CHiLL]

Definately not with this in mind: Windows 10 S won't let you change the default browser or switch to Google search.

 

RM who provide our Internet connection and web filtering is unable to filter Bing and they recommended that we blanked block Bing and switch all default search engines to Google.

Impero does not have a plug-in available for Edge, therefore cannot monitor it...so we also have a blanket ban on Edge from running.

Edited May 3, 2017 by CHiLL

[Boredguy]

but think of the streamlined desktop wallpaper we get.

[TwistedHelixis]

voted no for school but wife might like one at home.

[2ilent8cho]

The main reason people still use Windows is because of Win32 apps. Its the only reason we ever touch it here. Many businesses have years of legacy software there business depends on so they wont touch this. I think most of us in education have software teachers still insist on wanting that says Windows 3.1 on the system requirements , and then software like SIMS wont run on Windows 10 S (although when that eventually goes web app it wont be an issue). People who like to game cannot install STEAM on Windows 10 S. It is just Windows RT again but without the ARM part.

 

and what really makes me mad the most is its yet another version of Windows , like they don't already have too many SKU's!

[MrEprise]

Did they pick "S" because it sits between "R" & "T" in the alphabet or does it actually mean something this time?

 

Also agree with @localzuk. I'm sure there are people who will find it quite suitable for use at this point in time but until more useful apps appear (or at least ones we'd like to see) and some of the other limitations like the one above (edge locked to bing) I don't yet see the incentive to use it.

[ellsandell]

I don't really think its suited to Education with the way many Schools run (In Europe at least) - Enterprise like Domain Joined machines. They are trying to go down the Google route and remove the need for lots of internal infrastructure.

 

 

The thing is, developers are somewhat demand driven. At the moment, they have a customer base that has always used Win32 programs. Microsoft has launched something new, and at first there will be no demand for apps, because there's no-one using the OS. So, they will look at that cost of packaging things up as a waste of time, and instead will just put "Windows 10 Home/Pro/Edu/Ent only!" on their products.

 

So, regardless of how easy the process is, it is still a cost - a cost that will have to be paid for somehow.

 

Also, take into account another major issue - Microsoft take a cut of all sales on their store! Many education providers don't currently face those costs...

I suppose that's where Microsoft say they add value to using the Store platform for Apps (WIN32 or UWP) with the infrastructure and easy access. Obviously, will work across all SKUs at that point.

 

We put the tiny EarTrumpet app in Store via Centennial, and gained access to 242 markets, update infra., fbh, and gobs of data

 

https://twitter.com/WithinRafael/status/859521888761987072

 

With Spotify on its way to the Store, that might put some pressure on others to do the same. But still going to have to be a big push from Microsoft to really get some momentum going.

 

 

Definately not with this in mind: Windows 10 S won't let you change the default browser or switch to Google search.

 

RM who provide our Internet connection and web filtering is unable to filter Bing and they recommended that we blanked block Bing and switch all default search engines to Google.

Impero does not have a plug-in available for Edge, therefore cannot monitor it...so we also have a blanket ban on Edge from running.

 

Probably the biggest mistake really, theres a reason why people use Google and its just going to frustrate. What's the technical reason why RM can't filter Bing? The addon APIs for Edge have been available for a while....

[CHiLL]

Probably the biggest mistake really, theres a reason why people use Google and its just going to frustrate. What's the technical reason why RM can't filter Bing? The addon APIs for Edge have been available for a while....

Interesting. RM simply said that they cannot do it at the moment, their development team are aware of it but there is no estimate as to when or if this can be done.

The last time I spoke with Impero a couple of months ago, they recommended using an Impero policy to block the running of Edge. I'll have to ring them up.

[flyinghaggis]

We won't be looking at rolling it out just now primary because of the requirement for an Azure Domain. We're also using Google Apps/Chrome very heavily so the Edge browser limitations sound like they'll be a pain for us. That and we'll need to wait to see how easy it is to roll out w32 apps which aren't available though the Windows Store.

 

It feels like it has too many limitations and questions surrounding it for us to consider moving to it anytime soon. If you're using Office365 heavily and have an Azure domain ready to go I could see the appeal but it's not feeling like it's going to be a good fit for our school right now.

 

Having said that we need to upgrade our servers and migrate from Windows 7 to some version of 10 in the next year or two. It looks like Microsoft is going to increasing push their customers towards Azure and off-premise servers so it's something we'll need to start looking into. Maybe by then Windows 10 S will look more appealing?

Edited May 3, 2017 by flyinghaggis

[Garacesh]

Only able to install apps from the Windows store means that it's dead before it even starts.

 

How many schools are running outdated, depreciated or abandoned software? Pretty much all of us. New versions that might just end up on the store we probably can't afford, or don't want to pay monthly licensing for no greater functionality (which seems to be happening to a lot of software devs now...), and I doubt the abandonware programs are going to be updated and put on the Windows Store. So definitely a no from us.

[gshaw]

Is it actually a lighter Windows install aka Chrome OS or just a hobbled version of Windows 10 "Pro"? If it's the latter it still needs AV, vulnerable to ransomware attacks etc. which makes the exercise somewhat pointless apart from increasing MS Store revenues by cutting off standard Win32 installation methods.

 

The "Shared PC" mode is nothing new, just a Microsoft compiled set of scripts many of us have been using for years and is available in Win10 "Pro" already.

 

Need to get hands on it to see what's actually different from an engineering POV as it sounds more policy-based than tech-based as it stands.

[Arthur]

Is it actually a lighter Windows install aka Chrome OS or just a hobbled version of Windows 10 "Pro"?

 

www.windowscentral.com/microsoft-windows-10-s-review

 

There's a common misconception with this new edition of Windows 10. Many are looking at it as some kind of "lite" version of Windows, as it being locked to the Windows Store means you can't install apps like Google Chrome or Adobe Premiere Pro. While true, Windows 10 S is absolutely not a "lite" version of Windows in any way, shape or form. It looks and behaves just like any normal version of Windows 10.

 

Windows 10 S can still run your traditional Windows apps and programs, as long as they're available in the Windows Store. That means if Google decides to put Chrome in the Windows Store, devices running Windows 10 S will be able to install it and use it. The only limitation on Windows 10 S is that you can't install the same apps from outside the Store. It simply doesn't let you.

 

What happens if you try? You get a friendly popup telling you that this specific edition of Windows 10 is designed to help you stay safe, and that means limiting you to the Windows Store for apps and games. How does this make you safer? Well, Microsoft screens all apps that are submitted to the Windows Store, ensuring for the most part that they're safe for use.

 

If it's the latter it still needs AV, vulnerable to ransomware attacks etc. which makes the exercise somewhat pointless apart from increasing MS Store revenues by cutting off standard Win32 installation methods.

Unless the malware/ransomware is available from the Windows Store how would that even be possible?

 

[gshaw]

Script-based / browser exploit perhaps? Is IE part of the image still?

[ellsandell]

Script-based / browser exploit perhaps? Is IE part of the image still?

All apps run in containers to isolate them from the rest of the OS. The Video here gives a good run down. https://www.theverge.com/2017/5/2/15506378/microsoft-windows-10-s-os-operating-system-announced-features?utm_campaign=vox&utm_content=video&utm_me dium=social&utm_source=social Interesting snippet:

"Windows 10 S will run any browser in the Windows Store," says Myerson, hinting that if Google is willing to list Chrome in the Store then it will be available on devices that run Windows 10 S.

https://www.theverge.com/2017/5/2/15506378/microsoft-windows-10-s-os-operating-system-announced-features

[Arthur]

Script-based / browser exploit perhaps?

Perhaps @Dos_Box could test this for us with the review laptop he has?

 

It would be interesting to know if unsigned VBS or PowerShell scripts run or not.

 

At least macro-based ransomware wouldn't be able to download additional EXEs from outside of the Store because they wouldn't be signed by Microsoft's certificate and won't run.

[gshaw]

Indeed, basically wondering if this is a "set and forget" OS experience like the Chromebooks or if it degrades in the same way as a standard Windows installation.

 

That review device looks like the kind of thing MS need to be aiming at, hoping Dell create something similar to the Chromebook 11 and get the price point the same (around £200-250 max)

[jthompson]

I should imagine anyone who's put any time into setting up automated app deployment via Group Policy, a software restriction policy, supporting myriad legacy apps & devices, etc. would have very little need for Windows 10 S. The student machines here are the ones that cause us the least work anyway: they're largely automated and dead easy to deploy in large numbers. The physical work of unboxing and labelling up is what takes the time, and that won't change. It's the staff machines with their wide range of obscure applications that are harder work, and Windows 10 S's USP (Store apps only) disqualifies it from consideration for us. Our biggest legacy app is probably Windows itself, tbh.

 

However, not all schools want to run/fiddle around with on-premises Active Directory, Group Policy, SCCM, etc. I suspect those are the schools that would benefit from Windows taking on features of the mobile OSes (sandboxing, sideloading restrictions, store-based AV scanning, etc.). Although I won't be wanting it here any time soon, I hope it's a success in the marketplace as it will likely make the average user more secure.

[flyinghaggis]

So is there anyway for us as domain administrators to get Win32 apps running on a Windows 10 S device? Or are we literally totally dependent on developers porting apps across to make them available in the Windows Store? Edited May 3, 2017 by flyinghaggis

[3s-gtech]

App-V possibly? Or maybe Remote App?

[Bob_the_Goon]

Yeah I too am wondering if Remote Desktop Services may be a way of bridging the gap for the apps that are still Win32. Perhaps this hybrid approach may be the best way forward for the next few years.