Microsoft to move out of the education market?

[gshaw]

This ^^^

 

The smart education vendors would do well to start building their offerings using Azure web apps and database services, which seem to be much more cost effective.

 

The days of slapping a random product on a Windows server with SQL & co. look to be numbered. Will the software companies react as quickly as the change is being forced?

 

Can only see it adding expense as, for example a cloud MIS now has to pay hosting & development costs whereas previously the platform has been practically free.

 

Common thread here already is this change is taking MS out of people's transition plans entirely, is this what Redmond were aiming for?

Edited February 2, 2016 by gshaw

[Gibson335]

From the original document:

 

1st July 2016 – 30th June 2017 Discounts reduced to approximately half their current level.

1st July 2017 – 30th June 2018 Discounts reduced to about a quarter of their current level.

 

But only for NEW customers. I had missed that bit. Renewing customers get the same discount right up to 2018. I'm guessing someone has worked out the math for those percentages.

 

Hmm...I was trying to get at what that might mean for pricing post June 30 2018, but I guess that's still uncertain. Hopefully MS themselves will offer some light at the end of the tunnel.

[sparkeh]

Hopefully MS themselves will offer some light at the end of the tunnel.

I find myself suspecting that MS themselves aren't exactly sure what things will look like beyond wanting to get everyone moving to the cloud. Once they figure that out they'll let us know.

[nathan]

This could throw a spanner in the works of combining 13 primaries...

[Gibson335]

I find myself suspecting that MS themselves aren't exactly sure what things will look like beyond wanting to get everyone moving to the cloud. Once they figure that out they'll let us know.

 

Yes...as I wrote earlier, I wonder if the DfE released that document too soon for Microsoft's liking.

[kennysarmy]

Hmm...I was trying to get at what that might mean for pricing post June 30 2018, but I guess that's still uncertain. Hopefully MS themselves will offer some light at the end of the tunnel.

 

From my guy at Capita!

 

Your current annual licence has unit prices fixed until May 2018 at which point without switching to the cloud based solution you may well be looking at a 25% price increase BUT we believe that as a pre-existing customer you are likely to be able to renew for a further 3 years at the 2015 Band E price (so potentially only a couple of percent increase) but we should know more as and when we approach that date.

 

I'm not going to worry about a 25% increase - our EES is ~ £7,000 so I'm not sure we need to rip everything out and start again for a £1,500 increase - what's that as a percentage of the school turnover?

[Gibson335]

From my guy at Capita!

 

Your current annual licence has unit prices fixed until May 2018 at which point without switching to the cloud based solution you may well be looking at a 25% price increase BUT we believe that as a pre-existing customer you are likely to be able to renew for a further 3 years at the 2015 Band E price (so potentially only a couple of percent increase) but we should know more as and when we approach that date.

 

I'm not going to worry about a 25% increase - our EES is ~ £7,000 so I'm not sure we need to rip everything out and start again for a £1,500 increase - what's that as a percentage of the school turnover?

 

Like you, I'm not sure we'd look at changing everything for the sake of a 25% increase - to us that's about 2 grand a year. Provided everything currently available under EES remains available, that is. Just scratching my head as to why the MoU uses the language it does if, in fact, its costs won't drive people into the cloud after all.

[sparkeh]

I'm not sure we need to rip everything out and start again

Agreed!

The way I am looking at it is we can renew this year for three years, over that time we can watch what develops and plan accordingly. I can't see the need to start panicking just yet. If that is indeed true about the 25% then we won't lose too much sleep

[nathan]

The government are probably just being a bit cosy with Google at the minute, as Google don't have on-premise offerings and wanting to push them into the cloud base direction where they can compete.

[sparkeh]

Just scratching my head as to why the MoU uses the language it does if, in fact, its costs won't drive people into the cloud after all.

I think it leaves wiggle room for drawing up future agreements. As I said above, we don't actually know the original price of academic licences or the discount applied. It leaves room for MS to either massively hike prices and say "now you are playing full price" or make a moderate increase and say "we've removed the discount but they weren't that expensive to begin with"

[localzuk]

Agreed!

The way I am looking at it is we can renew this year for three years, over that time we can watch what develops and plan accordingly. I can't see the need to start panicking just yet. If that is indeed true about the 25% then we won't lose too much sleep

 

It shouldn't be a huge issue for many schools. Its those of us who are about to engage in a big change already that are lifting our ears a bit. Basically - the infrastructure I'm looking at for our MAT would want to last well into the future, and the way the dates line up, we would likely get hit by the 2018 date rather than the extra 3 years.

 

So, it seems sensible to look at other options now rather than later, after having spent money that we didn't necessarily need to spend on in-house gear.

[nathan]

It shouldn't be a huge issue for many schools. Its those of us who are about to engage in a big change already that are lifting our ears a bit. Basically - the infrastructure I'm looking at for our MAT would want to last well into the future, and the way the dates line up, we would likely get hit by the 2018 date rather than the extra 3 years.

 

So, it seems sensible to look at other options now rather than later, after having spent money that we didn't necessarily need to spend on in-house gear.

 

Just on a slightly different topic, are you a mixture of primaries/secondaries? It would be great to pick your brain a little as im in the same boat as you.

[foofighterjim]

Like many I have been reading this with great interest. I have been looking over my current 5 year plan with optimism because detailed investigation into Azure AD was on my to do list in 2017/18 but at the same time with complete despair at the thought of possibly needing to implement it so soon. At the risk of driving myself insane all I am doing for now is making the powers that be aware of the document and the possible cost rises; I will awaiting what response @Dos_Box gets.

 

I think it's a bit early to be jumping to conclusions until we hear from Microsoft. Like many of you it really doesn't help when you are having to budget 2 or 3 years in advance but without the facts our hands are tied or in some cases forced. Plan for the worst hope for the best.

[localzuk]

Just on a slightly different topic, are you a mixture of primaries/secondaries? It would be great to pick your brain a little as im in the same boat as you.

 

Mix of middle deemed secondary, and first schools, plus a nursery or 2.

[kennysarmy]

Plan for the worst hope for the best.

 

I prefer to plan for the most likely!

[Michael]

There is a common misconception that Azure AD is simply AD in the cloud - it isn't. Just consider it an authentication service only, be it cloud based. It doesn't have OUs, Group Policies or DNS for example.

 

For as long as we require Windows clients in a managed/controlled domain environment, we'll still always need an on site AD instance, even if it links/talks/communicates with Azure. This new licensing/pricing model changes nothing to how schools/businesses are currently configured.

[gshaw]

Azure AD DS seems to cover some elements, it's clear the direction MS are aiming for...

 

https://azure.microsoft.com/en-gb/services/active-directory-ds/

[nathan]

Not that bad a price either.

 

1250 users - £22 p/m

 

6250 users - £45 p/m

 

25,000 users - £181 p/m

 

still in preview mind

[Gibson335]

I prefer to plan for the most likely!

 

I have Plans A, B and C running alongside each other all the time...

[SHimmer45]

with Azure dont you get charged for the amount of bandwidth used (thinking that any required windows clients are still going to need to be deployed)

i know of one school which is putting all of there backup materials & other data in the cloud and its rather clunky (using Google).

 

Capita are going to need a BIG nudge for supporting a none windows OS for a native sims client imo

[timbo343]

Just spoken to a supplier, they say that

july 16 will see a 14% - 19% increase,

july 17 will see another 14% - 19% increase,

july 18 will see another 14% - 19% increase

for OnPrem OVS agreements.

[Gibson335]

Just spoken to a supplier, they say that

july 16 will see a 14% - 19% increase,

july 17 will see another 14% - 19% increase,

july 18 will see another 14% - 19% increase

for OnPrem OVS agreements.

 

Yes, figures seem to be the ones being touted by some resellers. The issue is, the inclusion of July 2018 in that reads, to me at least, as if they will apply that increase this year, increase again, and then again, leaving the July 2018 price for a new agreement at between 42% and 57% more expensive that the current costs. But do they actually mean that, I wonder. I'm being told not.

[CyberNerd]

For as long as we require Windows clients in a managed/controlled domain environment, we'll still always need an on site AD instance, even if it links/talks/communicates with Azure. This new licensing/pricing model changes nothing to how schools/businesses are currently configured.

 

You could run windows authentication using Samba4. It uses all of the same management tools; your techs probably wouldn't notice, nor would your end users - your bursar will notice, but only in the price drop.

[Vlad_the_Emailer]

I met my boss to plan this too.

I don't think you will need to learn account setups from linux, as far as I know SAMBA uses standard windows tools at the front end, once it is set up.

 

 

Indeed. Once you have set up Samba 4, you use the standard tools on a Windows client to manage Active Directory and Group policies. It is pretty seamless.

[altecsole]

Indeed. Once you have set up Samba 4, you use the standard tools on a Windows client to manage Active Directory and Group policies. It is pretty seamless.

Having no meaningful experience with Linux, and feeling that I really should learn, which server distro would you recommend as a good starting point?