Microsoft to move out of the education market?

[Jawloms]

Well this has simply confused me considerably more, presumably due to my own lack of understanding.

 

UK customer with an OVS-ES agreement which expires at any point between now and July 2018 can renew for 1 year or 3 years with UK discounted prices.

After July 2018 (should there not be a replacement agreement with DfE) Academic pricing and discounts would still be in effect – i.e. they would not pay Commercial or Government rates.

 

For me, the first line says if you renew before July 2018 then you'll get the discounts, implying that they are ending, and the second says the discounts would still be in effect. What exactly is ending and what exactly is going to be more expensive?

[Gibson335]

Well this has simply confused me considerably more, presumably due to my own lack of understanding.

 

 

 

For me, the first line says if you renew before July 2018 then you'll get the discounts, implying that they are ending, and the second says the discounts would still be in effect. What exactly is ending and what exactly is going to be more expensive?

 

Well, the current agreement ends on 30 June 2018, so yes that first line suggests that existing discounts will still apply until that point. The second part suggests that discounts will still apply, but those discounts won't be as good as they are now. What they leave out is exactly what those discounts will be, and discounted from what.

[Gibson335]

Well, the current agreement ends on 30 June 2018, so yes that first line suggests that existing discounts will still apply until that point. The second part suggests that discounts will still apply, but those discounts won't be as good as they are now. What they leave out is exactly what those discounts will be, and discounted from what.

 

As I understand it right now, the discount we will lose is the UK-specific one, so we'll go to prices similar to those other European education currently stand at - albeit with some potential price hikes.

 

What still confuses me is the implication that costs won't change until 2018, yet a number of resellers are saying there will be 3 considerable price hikes.

[TechMonkey]

As I understand it right now, the discount we will lose is the UK-specific one, so we'll go to prices similar to those other European education currently stand at - albeit with some potential price hikes.

 

What still confuses me is the implication that costs won't change until 2018, yet a number of resellers are saying there will be 3 considerable price hikes.

 

I think this is a bit of fudging, if you come in as a brand new customer, then you will be subject to the hikes. If you as an existing subscriber renew you won't be subject. This is my interpretation though so it's as wrong as anyone elses!

[foofighterjim]

I think this is a bit of fudging, if you come in as a brand new customer, then you will be subject to the hikes. If you as an existing subscriber renew you won't be subject. This is my interpretation though so it's as wrong as anyone elses!

 

That's how it reads to me too.

[Gibson335]

I think this is a bit of fudging, if you come in as a brand new customer, then you will be subject to the hikes. If you as an existing subscriber renew you won't be subject. This is my interpretation though so it's as wrong as anyone elses!

 

I hope you're right...though if you are, how is that likely to drive existing users into the cloud as MS would like?

[Chimaera]

Now stop me if I'm wrong but I think that MS want to move out of the education arena. Please read the details below and let me know what you think.

Microsoft memorandum of understanding - GOV.UK

 

This appeared on the The Register today, seems Microsoft is giving an incentive to it's channel partners to push O365 over on premises solutions. I wonder if this will extend to Edu?

 

Absolutely it will.

 

I don't think this is about Microsoft getting out of education - but about Microsoft moving to become a cloud services company.

 

The title of the document is "EducationCloud Transition Agreement".

And then tucked away in the last section is this:

"Under the Microsoft cloud computing service, the Microsoft Office 365 Education programme is free to schools.

As part of the new agreement, Microsoft has committed to keeping this service free to schools for the full term of the MoU."

[gshaw]

But that MoU only runs to 2018 so "full term" is in reality fairly short term. It's the huge unknown after that which is concerning.

[cogrady84]

There is just no way we're going to start steaming ahead transitioning all of our local infrastructure to cloud, with no idea of the potential costs involved once all of these discount agreements no longer exist. It worries me that MS expect organisations to completely disregard the huge investment we have put into local infrastructure, transition and then they hike up all of the cloud hosting costs for Azure and O365, and we'll be left with no options because all of the local hardware will have been eBayed well before that time comes!

 

I'd rather just absorb the 14-19% cost increases of renewing for 3 years now, and in the meantime flesh out an alternative, be it Linux/Apple/Chrome etc...

[Patrickv]

Not moving out of education but removing the discounts we enjoy. Under the MoU things are destined to get a lot more expensive.

 

Though its an odd move. As I see it, the healthy discounts we get keeps schools using MS products and exposing pupils (future customers) to their wares. Paying a lot more could push schools to moving away from MS which would be bad for them.

 

That sounds stupid. They are trying to get many people on and use Windows 10 as possible and doing that is like shooting themselves in the foot. lol

[Nightshade2k]

There is a new Azure Calculator for Education Pricing coming out at the moment, i think from what ive read/heard/gathered info on and based on our own use of VLSC i understand it that while windows for the most part becomes free due to win10, your main payment will be in O365, the idea being with azure connections in place you would move to SaaS (software as a service) and use remote web apps connections, the issue is i dont think or feel you would yet move fully to cloud based services although a lot can be done! Your higher costs will come with licensing the same old legacy apps that cant be cloud maintained for example SQL based programs etc and so SQL licenses and local Hyper-V licensing is going to hurt after the deadlines pass. I forget the guy that gave a speech about it but its nicknamed SoSaas (Same old software as a service).

 

Ive seen Sims Clients pushed out by webapp and run well with Solus 3 for example, but the ramifications for putting a whole Sims database/server in the cloud is a bit mind boggling. I certainly also dont trust the new Capita hosted option either. Anyway i digress, im off to meet MS this friday with our reseller to discuss our licensing changes we were already using o365 and were planning to move to office as a service anyway on Win10 Start menus so for us at least its not as scary but there are still too many unknowns!

[The_IT_Guy]

Is Microsoft posting any information out about this in a particular central place? Our 3 year EES agreement is coming to an end in July 2016.

 

So from what i read it could already fall victim to a price hike for this year and i only found this out by stumbling across this thread.

 

Am i understanding it right in that they are pushing us to be using the web app version of office rather than the local install? If so what about the likes of MS Access used for IT GCSE?

Staff and students only get it free at the moment as we pay for our EES. If we stopped that they would lose access to their free editions of office too?

[Geoff]

They should be able to get Office365 for free.

 

Students and teachers in the UK can now check eligibility for free Office from their school - Microsoft UK Schools blog - Site Home - MSDN Blogs

[nathan]

There is a new Azure Calculator for Education Pricing coming out at the moment, i think from what ive read/heard/gathered info on and based on our own use of VLSC i understand it that while windows for the most part becomes free due to win10, your main payment will be in O365, the idea being with azure connections in place you would move to SaaS (software as a service) and use remote web apps connections, the issue is i dont think or feel you would yet move fully to cloud based services although a lot can be done! Your higher costs will come with licensing the same old legacy apps that cant be cloud maintained for example SQL based programs etc and so SQL licenses and local Hyper-V licensing is going to hurt after the deadlines pass. I forget the guy that gave a speech about it but its nicknamed SoSaas (Same old software as a service).

 

Ive seen Sims Clients pushed out by webapp and run well with Solus 3 for example, but the ramifications for putting a whole Sims database/server in the cloud is a bit mind boggling. I certainly also dont trust the new Capita hosted option either. Anyway i digress, im off to meet MS this friday with our reseller to discuss our licensing changes we were already using o365 and were planning to move to office as a service anyway on Win10 Start menus so for us at least its not as scary but there are still too many unknowns!

 

where have you heard that about the Education Pricing for Azure?

[xlandhenry]

This.

 

I think people are reading too much into it.

[matt40k]

There is just no way we're going to start steaming ahead transitioning all of our local infrastructure to cloud, with no idea of the potential costs involved once all of these discount agreements no longer exist. It worries me that MS expect organisations to completely disregard the huge investment we have put into local infrastructure, transition and then they hike up all of the cloud hosting costs for Azure and O365, and we'll be left with no options because all of the local hardware will have been eBayed well before that time comes!

 

Sorry but, and? Even if you do go "cloud" and then they charge, say 2 or 3 years down the line, sorry you have to pay, even if its mega dosh, and? Seriously we are IT, we change everything every 3-5 years! Enjoy the years of freebies, if you had an on prem mail server, you dont just skip it (unless its mega old) repurpose it. Server are deappreciating assets, its not like your selling your playing field.

[CyberNerd]

Exactly ! Id rather stack shelves in morisons that go linux. The staff wouldn't have a clue and while I have installed and used it dont think education software providers or its users want it and so cost saving benefits are outweighed by its problems.

 

Hardware used to be expensive, and this kept deployments manageable. Software has made this much easier to manage but now the costs of software and the move to cloud based solutions is the new restraining factor. Management need to accept this ... that is progress. The cloud is the new buzzword and it too has a cost.

 

That's not even close to the truth. As a school who've deployed in excess of 1200 Linux Chromebooks I can tell you with a great deal of certainty:

 

1) Staff and students take to it very easily. We have FEWER user problems and FEWER technical problems than with Windows.

2) Educational software providers are increasingly making sure software is cloud based and platform independent, they like the annual contract model and the ability to expand their growing market using cloud based infrastructures.

3) Chromebook (Linux) are the fastest growing operating system in the world for education.

4) The cost saving benefits extend to the amount of support needed. It is lower.

5) Cloud costs decrease with Moores law, and it is mostly free. I think the management cost for chromebooks is less than £4 per year all in.

 

Honestly though; In IT you either need a niche or you need to diversify. In schools diversity is the only way and statements like "Id rather stack shelves in morisons that go linux." is a good way to guarantee the former.

[Areku]

Honestly though; In IT you either need a niche or you need to diversify. In schools diversity is the only way and statements like "Id rather stack shelves in morisons that go linux." is a good way to guarantee the former.

 

diversify, we took that attitude when macs where starting to be used for media/music. we now run a fairly successful mac network along side our windows network.

however i still deal with school that and i quote "we are never having macs, period". which is kinda sad when we are here to give the students the broadest education we can.

 

Mac, linux or windows, we need to be open minded about it, and cant let our personal short comings effect it.

[gshaw]

The market is fragmenting these days so now we're supporting...

 

- Windows domain devices

- Mac network

- Chromebooks

- iPads, Android, Surface

- Office 365

- Google Apps (pilot)

 

Everyone has different needs and that's before taking BYOD devices into consideration.

 

MS really need to clarify their long term stance (post 2018 ) as after the Win10 privacy / telemetry debacle trust levels of the company are lower than they've ever been, won't take much to tip people onto Google if there's any doubt on education pricing getting hiked up.

[nathan]

The market is fragmenting these days so now we're supporting...

 

- Windows domain devices

- Mac network

- Chromebooks

- iPads, Android, Surface

- Office 365

- Google Apps (pilot)

 

Everyone has different needs and that's before taking BYOD devices into consideration.

 

MS really need to clarify their long term stance (post 2018 ) as after the Win10 privacy / telemetry debacle trust levels of the company are lower than they've ever been, won't take much to tip people onto Google if there's any doubt on education pricing getting hiked up.

 

No offence, but if you completely trust any large commercial organisation you are being silly. They have all done things in the past to course distrust and they will all do things in the future too.

 

You are pointing to a couple of Microsoft issues, but Google have had them too. i think the last example was when Google were tracking students even though they said they didn't - which could of caused a few legal issues for schools.

[gshaw]

No offence, but if you completely trust any large commercial organisation you are being silly. They have all done things in the past to course distrust and they will all do things in the future too.

 

You are pointing to a couple of Microsoft issues, but Google have had them too. i think the last example was when Google were tracking students even though they said they didn't - which could of caused a few legal issues for schools.

 

Oh I don't trust any corporation but until now MS have been reasonable with education, not convinced that's going to be the case going forward.

[Shinagami]

I've been reading through this topic and I may be able to clear a few things up here. I'm an Ex Microsoft employee who now works for a reseller, I have been on a conference call with Microsoft about this and I can share a little information with you. To be honest good resellers should be telling you this information already. I know I have already told some of my customers.

 

Microsoft have renegotiated their deal with the government to bring the UK education licensing prices into line with the prices in Europe. Although Microsoft are pushing for everyone to move to the cloud onsite licensing will continue to be available for the foreseeable future.

 

The open academic agreement (perpetual licences) does not currently get the same discounts as the OVSES and EES agreements and the pricing will be largely unaffected except for normal price fluctuations.

 

The OVSES and EES agreements will both still be available but the Level F discount level has been removed except for schools with 1000+ FTE’s

 

New school customers that do not currently have an OVSES agreement and want to start one will find the prices will rise around 14% after 31/07/2016 Schools renewing existing agreement will not have this price increase.

 

If you have a renewal before July 2016 it is recommended that for the next two years you should renew with 1 year subscriptions and in 2018 renew with a 3 year subscription which will give you discounted pricing until 2021.

 

If you have a renewal after July 2016 then renew for 1 year and then 3 years which will give you discounted pricing until 2020.

 

If you have recently taken out a 3 year renewal that will end after 01/07/2018 then you will not be able to extend the discount level you are getting beyond that point

 

Microsoft have said that although on site licenses will still be available customers may find cloud licensing to be a cheaper alternative after the discount period has finished.

 

Any schools that finish their OVSES agreement and wish to buyout their licenses will be granted a discount on the buyout price.

 

An information pack will be available at a later date to help explain the benefits of the cloud to headmasters, teachers and pupils but we were not told exactly when this would be available.

 

I hope this cleared up a few questions. I will keep an eye on this topic to see if I helped or not.

Edited March 18, 2016 by Shinagami

[Geoff]

Microsoft have said that although on site licenses will still be available customers may find cloud licensing to be a cheaper alternative after the discount period has finished.

 

Where is the tipping point for this? How many FTEs?

[gshaw]

This ^^^

 

It's one thing to say on-prem licensing isn't going away, quite another as to whether it'll still be financially viable.

 

Granted a lot can change on the technology landscape in 3 years but still the question needs answering.

[Roberto]

I think the issue is that no one can currently answer the question about what will be the most cost effective solution in 3 or 4 years time.

 

It's not that long ago that the default position on email for a lot of organisations is that you would host it on-site unless you had special circumstances that made cloud a better bet. These days, I think that's reversed.

 

I can see that possibly becoming the case for other services such as SQL databases on cloud instances, maybe even Azure AD becoming more of a player in day-to-day network management, for example... but no one knows for sure.

 

And Microsoft and other vendors are entitled to make a living from their own hard work when all's said and done.