Microsoft to move out of the education market?

[localzuk]

Indeed, and I've never really had a problem editing config files. It's the simplest way to deploy the same settings to all machines - it's still recommended by Cisco, HP, IBM for managing hardware. I think this was my initial point that the tools are all there, but lack gui.

 

CLI is a great thing if you have someone who is experienced or good at learning things. Else you end up bogged down in man files figuring out syntax. Compared to Windows with "Add Scope"...

 

I wonder why no company has come about with an all in one GUI management suite for *nix? Aim it at SBS customers first, and expand from there, adding extra features as time goes on. I can't imagine it being that complex to create either - as it would only need to be a system that edits the config files for you!

[truebluesteve]

Only thing I'd be concerned about is for example we're currently looking at replacing our BackUp/DR infrastructure and wondering whether this will be a waste of money if in lets say 2-3 years we basically have nothing to backup locally

 

Another example, our switches need sorting out and it's a waste upgrading to 1Gig edge now if in 2-3 years we are running full BYOD/wireless etc

 

Steve

 

Well we had a brief loss of Internet the other day - 45 minutes which was annoying enough, but at least everything that was local was largely unaffected. The outages are rare for me but I know others on here have had far more and that could be a nightmare to manage

 

I suppose it will depend on what, if any, discounts they give to Education for locally based software - i.e. Server OS, Office etc. Even if they double the price that we currently pay for our OVS-ES license, I think I'd be happy to pay it at the moment.

Edited January 29, 2016 by truebluesteve

[gshaw]

Just trying to digest this, we're on yearly EES at the college so are MS suggesting after 2018 any on-prem products i.e. Windows Server, SQL and so on are going to become significantly more expensive and all we'll get at low cost is O365 and add-on subscription products? If so it looks like time to go Google...

[truebluesteve]

CLI is a great thing if you have someone who is experienced or good at learning things. Else you end up bogged down in man files figuring out syntax. Compared to Windows with "Add Scope"...

 

I wonder why no company has come about with an all in one GUI management suite for *nix? Aim it at SBS customers first, and expand from there, adding extra features as time goes on. I can't imagine it being that complex to create either - as it would only need to be a system that edits the config files for you!

 

Agreed - I really don't have the time to be continually messing around with config files and the like - even though I can see they have some benefits.

[localzuk]

Just trying to digest this, we're on yearly EES at the college so are MS suggesting after 2018 any on-prem products i.e. Windows Server, SQL and so on are going to become significantly more expensive and all we'll get at low cost is O365 and add-on subscription products? If so it looks like time to go Google...

 

Seems that way. They may be including Azure into their cloud stuff though... If they could sell that at a significant discount, it may be interesting.

[CyberNerd]

I wonder why no company has come about with an all in one GUI management suite for *nix? Aim it at SBS customers first, and expand from there, adding extra features as time goes on. I can't imagine it being that complex to create either - as it would only need to be a system that edits the config files for you!

 

I think it's because much of it is fragmented. The linux vendors will make sure the packages are compatible with each other, but to have an overarching GUI that controls them all would need a huge amount of buy-in from disperse developers. The reality is that *nix admins can do their job without gui's - it really isn't that hard. Many people find it difficult to remember where to find things inside multiple windows (where would I find proxy settings if I couldn't remember inetcpl.cpl ??) So what is easy in *nix is difficult in windows and vice versa for their various admins. It's all to do with what you are used to; which brings us nicely back on topic. I'm lucky enough to be too old to have windws when I was at school, so I can diversify. Hopefully the next generation will be able to as well.

[gshaw]

Seems that way. They may be including Azure into their cloud stuff though... If they could sell that at a significant discount, it may be interesting.

 

If it's anything like the strokes they've tried to pull with Azure AD I won't be holding my breath. License EES by FTE then try and hit us for per-user pricing on key parts of the suite... not impressed.

[CyberNerd]

Well we had a brief loss of Internet the other day - 45 minutes which was annoying enough, but at least everything that was local was largely unaffected. The outages are rare for me but I know others on here have had far more and that could be a nightmare to manage

 

What we would pay for EES happily covers the cost of a backup line. If the price goes up you might be able to afford two!

[JATSO]

With 2.5 years to go and a refresh of Servers and some PC's due, plus a move to Windows 10, using our current EES, will it be worth staying with Microsoft if the price is to increase significantly, only time will tell. I shall send a copy of the MoU to all heads so they can decide. "Forewarned is Forearmed"

[gshaw]

Has this MOU only changed this week in relation to MS discontinuing the EES discount? Just reading the dates on the document it's been around for some time in some form but updated Jan 2016?

[mavhc]

We should probably gather information about how to run a linux network in a school, can an admin create a wiki page? http://www.edugeek.net/wiki/index.php?title=Linux

[Simcfc73]

My 3 year runs out on the 31st January 2018...

[localzuk]

Has this MOU only changed this week in relation to MS discontinuing the EES discount? Just reading the dates on the document it's been around for some time in some form but updated Jan 2016?

 

The new one was only signed this month I believe.

[mavhc]

Interesting reading about cloud service DPA https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/493164/Cloud_services_software_dept_advice.pdf

 

Google's response https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4froD7RGVqtaFlKc3VnTHF0THc&usp=sharing

 

Microsoft's https://dfecg.sharepoint.com/_layouts/15/WopiFrame.aspx?guestaccesstoken=HPYx2i%2brmZDRPPMYXdlnhGBvs20zWBmOHgMm4mkZmRQ%3d&docid=0e1ed703fcfce471f9c9dacad89bda816&action=view

[sparkeh]

I read the document a few times and these statements:

Nicky Morgan

Technology is an integral part of school life and this new agreement will help schools around the country save money and improve outcomes for all.

We want schools to be able to focus their resources on what matters most - teaching - and this agreement will help them do precisely that.

source: Schools in £30 million savings boost after deal with Microsoft | Invest in UK

Steve Beswick, Director of Education Sector at Microsoft UK

Microsoft is committed to empowering every student to achieve more. This agreement will enable schools to put the latest cloud-enabled technology in classrooms and facilitate high-quality teaching, in order to give children every opportunity to flourish at school.

It also provides a dynamic way of enabling our UK education customers to transition to the cloud, and achieve significant savings over traditional technology infrastructure.

source: Schools in £30 million savings boost after deal with Microsoft | Invest in UK

Its seem strange that this is being sold as a good thing for schools. The way I see it is that the agreement that schools have been benefiting from for years now is being pulled.

 

I can only think that MS will provide some kind of new agreement post EES for cloud services. Or, and perhaps more likely, get to 2018 and realise that many schools don't have the infrastructure or will to move everything to the cloud and extend the discounts again.

[localzuk]

Also, £30m across all UK schools saving? That isn't a particularly large amount really. If divided out, that's about £1200 per school if done equally... Edited January 29, 2016 by localzuk
Typo!

[Gibson335]

Our 3 year agreement expires mid July 2018!!

 

So, basically, if you want or need to stay MS, you purchase at the yet undisclosed discounted price, go completely into the cloud with them, or mix and match as required.

 

It's being reported as 'free' going into the cloud, but how many people will now have to increase bandwidth and/or purchase better failover protection? How much training will be required for ICT support staff, and at what cost? I have no idea how much bandwidth will increase, but as we often peak at 80+ currently we're upping our 100Mb cap to 200 in our next agreement...but will that be enough? We were also going for a single FTTC failover, so that it provided external mail use and basic Internet services, but that won't be enough should the main link fail.

[CyberNerd]

We should probably gather information about how to run a linux network in a school, can an admin create a wiki page? http://www.edugeek.net/wiki/index.php?title=Linux

 

There used to be stacks on there about linux, how to create samba shares, integration, domain controllers. It all got lost a few years ago and the admins couldn't/wouldn't restore it following a crash

 

 

Its seem strange that this is being sold as a good thing for schools. The way I see it is that the agreement that schools have been benefiting from for years now is being pulled.

I can only think that MS will provide some kind of new agreement post EES for cloud services. Or, and perhaps more likely, get to 2018 and realise that many schools don't have the infrastructure or will to move everything to the cloud and extend the discounts again.

 

I'm sure all that happened here is that MSFT's chat with HMRC didn't go as well as it did for Google. MS decided to withdraw from the old agreements and couldn't reach a deal with Govt. The Govt can play it as they got a 'win' because technically they extended the MoU "saving £30M" and MS got a win because they can move everyone to cloud - they know they have to do this anyway, it's just a matter of time. Anyone who doesn't has to pay more.

Also consider that because one MoU runs out it doesn't mean they won't come to another agreement.

[Oaktech]

My optimistic self wonders if very shortly we will get a streamed/subscription version of w10, tied to our use of o365 and Azure?

 

This will leave us with a choice - to use windows for our on premises stuff and just pay up, or to jump ship to linux for file and web services.

[CyberNerd]

It's being reported as 'free' going into the cloud, but how many people will now have to increase bandwidth and/or purchase better failover protection? How much training will be required for ICT support staff, and at what cost? I have no idea how much bandwidth will increase, but as we often peak at 80+ currently we're upping our 100Mb cap to 200 in our next agreement...but will that be enough? We were also going for a single FTTC failover, so that it provided external mail use and basic Internet services, but that won't be enough should the main link fail.

 

Failover yes, but cloud based doesn't use much bandwidth. We run 1200 user owned devices and barely get passed 120Mb/s at high peak load. There is a misconception that cloud based means moving large files from your could provider - it doesn't ; Google apps bandwidth is very, very small - we are talking about uploading tiny differences in documents that reside in a database.

[localzuk]

Failover yes, but cloud based doesn't use much bandwidth. We run 1200 user owned devices and barely get passed 120Mb/s at high peak load. There is a misconception that cloud based means moving large files from your could provider - it doesn't ; Google apps bandwidth is very, very small - we are talking about uploading tiny differences in documents that reside in a database.

 

Hybrid cloud/in-house would be an increased bandwidth solution. Pure cloud wouldn't particularly, but if you wanted to keep using things like SMART Notebook, you end up forced to transfer files back and forth.

[kevin_lane]

Well this is crap me no likely

[kevin_lane]

Well this is crap me no likely

 

What do they expect schools to do if they havent got the funds, or the expertise to move to an whole infrastructure to more affordable route for their licence requirements.

 

surely they have to take this into consideration. I mean primary schools have like next to no money. And relying on bigger schools to help them.

 

Very unfair ms

[CyberNerd]

Hybrid cloud/in-house would be an increased bandwidth solution. Pure cloud wouldn't particularly, but if you wanted to keep using things like SMART Notebook, you end up forced to transfer files back and forth.

 

 

SMART have a solution for that: https://www.smartamp.com/about

[Andrew_C]

surely they have to take this into consideration. I mean primary schools have like next to no money.

Why should they? They think they can make more money out of schools, they do it. Govt. cave in.

 

I have next to no money - I'd like a new car - should Honda keep their prices down for me?

 

That said, if this leads to a rise of vendor independent ICT teaching and learning, I think it will be a very good thing.