2015 Election

[LeMarchand]

Say bye-bye to freedom of speech and civil liberties; vaguely worded laws with a low threshold of proof are headed our way.

 

New laws to target radicalisation - BBC News

 

When this was mentioned on the news this morning the headline was "David Cameron to ban groups that promote hatred". I knew he didn't mean he'd be banning his own party.

[sonofsanta]

How does "the UK has been a 'passively tolerant society' for too long"

work with

"vocal or active opposition to fundamental British values including... tolerance of different faiths and beliefs."

 

Does that mean that by introducing a law against tolerance he's undermining the British value of tolerance and is guilty of his own law? Holy paradox, Batman!

 

"In addition, calling for the deaths of members of the armed forces".

 

Well, there's our angle next time we have an Iraq situation; any PM that calls for our armed forces to be sent abroad and shot at is an extremist.

 

Yes, I'm being facetious, but it shows how ludicrous any such law is. It's impossible to encompass the enormous variety of opinion and circumstance in the necessarily specific language of law. What, after all, is extremism? I guess I'll know it when I see it.

[tmcd35]

Under the proposals, ministers would be able to silence any group or individual they believe is undermining democracy or the British values of tolerance and mutual respect.

 

Mmm, something's not scanning right here. To protect our "values of tolerance and mutual respect", we have to relinquish our Freedom of Speech? Surely this isn't demonstrating those important values well?

 

Edit: beat me to it -

 

Does that mean that by introducing a law against tolerance he's undermining the British value of tolerance and is guilty of his own law? Holy paradox, Batman!

.

Edited May 13, 2015 by tmcd35

[CAM]

We've already had years of ministers kicking up a fuss over the monitoring of online communications. We've seen the criminalisation of people posting "offensive" views which amount to little more than throw away silliness or exasperated jabs by sweeping it up with the more serious incidents to promote moral panic. We've seen the introduction of a filtering system, the exposure of an information dragnet and the denouncement of anyone who objects as a tin-foil hat wearer or the instigator of harassment towards members of the public and senior figures for expressing their views at the end of their tether. We have also seen the criminalisation of privacy and harmless stuff that should never have been a criminal offence in the first place to make it easier to pull someone up on a charge. And lastly, an act to allow the government the freedom to invade your private communications for even the most minor of offences with the snooper's charter.

 

Now we have the human rights act being interfered with to make it harder for the EU to intervene when these laws get challenged as the government doesn't like being told no followed by the granting of powers so vague that anyone can be called a criminal.

 

Is it no wonder so many people are angry? Hence my earlier rant on Twitter about being ashamed to be British. My new long term plans will include moving to the mainland, sadly I lack the capacity to do so at the moment (my German is rusty and my skills all UK centric in education).

 

Sick of the UK. Sick of the Tories. Sick of the spooks and snoops. And no, I don't have anything to hide before anyone carts out that wheel again.

 

I'm left with the prediction that this country will see some major civil disorder before five years are up. We live in an age where civil rights can't just be taken away and pressure is building. Of course, I'll probably be arrested for posting that.

[LosOjos]

That's the Beeb closed down then.

 

You joke, but they just put John Whittingdale in charge of the BBC license review; he's been pretty damn transparent about the fact he wants to abolish the BBC in the past so I'm sure he'll remain impartial in his new role

[CAM]

You joke, but they just put John Whittingdale in charge of the BBC license review; he's been pretty damn transparent about the fact he wants to abolish the BBC in the past so I'm sure he'll remain impartial in his new role

 

He won't like articles criticising the government then.... Should we value extremism? - BBC News

[zag]

Reminds me of this!

 

[sparkeh]

Hmm I was trying to find an article I read earlier about BBC staff saying that the Tories had been threatening them with severe repercussions unless they altered their election coverage.

 

But it seems to have disappeared....

[X-13]

And no, I don't have anything to hide before anyone carts out that wheel again.

 

Only the guilty proclaim their innocence.

 

[Andrew_C]

Who said I was joking?

 

And, zag, that cartoon was in the Torygraph, so perhaps pick a more balanced view on "balance in the press" hmmm? The Beeb are loathed by whichever party is in power. Makes me think they must be doing something right.

Edited May 13, 2015 by Andrew_C

[foofighterjim]

Seems to sum up what I think quite nicely:

 

[pcstru]

But then, I think respect is earned

Always?

 

I think some of our students make a mistake along these lines - they think I need to earn their respect. Actually no, by coming to the school, they agree to respect the staff and if they don't, they can find another school.

[localzuk]

Always?

 

Yup. Always.

 

I think some of our students make a mistake along these lines - they think I need to earn their respect. Actually no, by coming to the school, they agree to respect the staff and if they don't, they can find another school.

 

No, they don't agree to respect the staff. They agree to obey them, or to "treat staff with respect". The 2 are subtley different to me. Respect is almost a feeling.

 

Respect is still earned. Until you've earned my respect, I (to put it simply) nothing you.

Edited May 13, 2015 by localzuk

[LeMarchand]

You joke, but they just put John Whittingdale in charge of the BBC license review; he's been pretty damn transparent about the fact he wants to abolish the BBC in the past so I'm sure he'll remain impartial in his new role

 

The man who led them to victory (Lynton Crosby, campaign manager) has interests in tobacco that Cameron has dodged questions on: The Paxman strategy: why Labour should keep asking Cameron the Lynton Crosby question and private health care General Election 2015: Tory election chief Lynton Crosby's firm planned to expand role of private healthcare in UK - General Election 2015 - UK Politics - The Independent so things aren't looking good there either.

[teejay]

Ok, rant time.

Yes I voted for the 'Tory Scum' in the election, no I'm not a die hard Tory, I've voted for various parties in the past including Labour.

I volunteer and support our local Food Bank and other charities that have developed around it. It's one of the first Food Banks to have opened and that was when we had a Labour government as there was obvious need even then. We have 150+ clients every week, each gets a meal and a food parcel but most importantly someone who chats to them and tries to help them with ways to get back on their feet. That includes finding housing if they're homeless, helping them budget or finding them help for addictions.

Over the winter we provided 30 beds for the homeless which were all in use every night, out of those visitors we managed to find housing for 80 of them. Since then we've also received enough donations to open a daily drop in centre to help people with life skills such as reading and writing, completing job application forms etc. We've also opened a pay if you can cafe supported by local food retailers who provide us with free food near end of shelf life. We also run a drop in on a Friday and Saturday night, where people can come along and have a meal and talk, we also provide play facilities for their children.

So, what's my point, basically I'm sick and tired of keyboard warriors spending all their time spouting on about how evil anyone is who voted Tory and how bad it is for the poor. This achieves absolutely nothing, apart from really annoying people and completely putting them off ever voting for left wing parties.

A little challenge for you keyboard warriors, how about you get away from your computers for a couple of hours at the weekend and do something that actually will make a difference for the poor and go and volunteer at a local charity that helps the poor. You'll make a massive difference and also give everyone a bit of peace and quiet

[pcstru]

Yup. Always.

No, they don't agree to respect the staff. They agree to obey them, or to "treat staff with respect". The 2 are subtley different to me. Respect is almost a feeling.

Respect | Define Respect at Dictionary.com

 

I think you are arguing that respect exclusively means 3, while I'm on 4 when I say that students agree to respect me when the come to school. I'd accept that 3 is correct use and "respect is almost a feeling" is in that frame, respect certainly can be earned in that respect(1), but students who come to the school are asked to respect me in the sense of 4, so not always unless you want to deny that meaning as correct usage.

[SpuffMonkey]

You joke, but they just put John Whittingdale in charge of the BBC license review; he's been pretty damn transparent about the fact he wants to abolish the BBC in the past so I'm sure he'll remain impartial in his new role

 

The view that the BBC has some in built leftie bias always puzzles me somewhat - their (until recently) main serious political interviewer (Paxman) is a Tory and was approached to run as a Tory Mayor of London candidate, Nick Robinson (chief political editor) was President of the Oxford Universiry Conservative Association, Michael Grade (former DG) sits as a Tory in the Lords - to me they always seem (irritatingly) balanced.

 

And Cam - before you nip off to the continent - give a thought to what your status might be if the UK decides to withdraw from the EU - I should think that'll be a right old mess. My mate who is "off grid" in Brittany is starting to be concerned that it might affect his life adversely, should we leave!

[sparkeh]

@teejay how do you know we don't do something proactive? After all, we don't *really* know each other or what we do

[LosOjos]

A little challenge for you keyboard warriors, how about you get away from your computers for a couple of hours at the weekend and do something that actually will make a difference for the poor and go and volunteer at a local charity that helps the poor. You'll make a massive difference and also give everyone a bit of peace and quiet

 

Fair play to you for getting out there and doing something to help, it's great that there are people like you doing that.

 

However, as @sparkeh said - you don't actually know what we do with our spare time; it's perfectly reasonable that we might be volunteering and ranting on forums you know!

[localzuk]

A little challenge for you keyboard warriors, how about you get away from your computers for a couple of hours at the weekend and do something that actually will make a difference for the poor and go and volunteer at a local charity that helps the poor. You'll make a massive difference and also give everyone a bit of peace and quiet

 

As others have said, you don't actually know what we do or our circumstances...

 

That said, admirable as it is to actually get out there and help people via charity work, it doesn't do what many of us are talking about - solve the cause of the problems. Charities and voluntary work can only, and again this is in no way a bad thing, help clean up the symptoms.

 

Campaigning, protesting, writing to MPs, writing the media, being keyboard warriors, all helps towards changing hearts and minds. It helps get people to think about the wider problem, and hopefully helps get the government to treat the cause of the problem in the first place. Only the government can do that, none of us can.

[sted]

Say bye-bye to freedom of speech and civil liberties; vaguely worded laws with a low threshold of proof are headed our way.

 

New laws to target radicalisation - BBC News

 

Be careful not to criticise the new laws, they could be construed as "undermining democracy" or "British values of tolerance and mutual respect" :S

 

does that mean that in theory they could block say the labour parties communications/media as they disagree with the current government or even in the legal system person x gets named in some scandal because its a criminal case but cant put their side of the story forward as its "not in the public interest"

[CAM]

The view that the BBC has some in built leftie bias always puzzles me somewhat - their (until recently) main serious political interviewer (Paxman) is a Tory and was approached to run as a Tory Mayor of London candidate, Nick Robinson (chief political editor) was President of the Oxford Universiry Conservative Association, Michael Grade (former DG) sits as a Tory in the Lords - to me they always seem (irritatingly) balanced.

 

And Cam - before you nip off to the continent - give a thought to what your status might be if the UK decides to withdraw from the EU - I should think that'll be a right old mess. My mate who is "off grid" in Brittany is starting to be concerned that it might affect his life adversely, should we leave!

 

I have a suspicion that if an EU exit is announced, there will be a whole load of dual or renounced citizenships happening before EU citizenship is revoked.

[tmcd35]

I have a suspicion that if an EU exit is announced, there will be a whole load of dual or renounced citizenships happening before EU citizenship is revoked.

 

I'm giving serious thought to relocating to Scotland.

[LosOjos]

I have a suspicion that if an EU exit is announced, there will be a whole load of dual or renounced citizenships happening before EU citizenship is revoked.

 

You can't have dual citizenship with the EU, you'd need to get it for a member state, and it's not as simple as just asking for it...

[CAM]

You can't have dual citizenship with the EU, you'd need to get it for a member state, and it's not as simple as just asking for it...

 

Well yeah, you have to live and work in that country for a number of years and be needed in that state before you can apply. Basically got to work hard for it, build connections, prove your worth to your intended home country and integrate yourself into the population. I'm planning ahead and altering my five year plan (or actually bothering to build one), not skipping over the border with a gleeful smile shouting "Citizenship please!"

 

I need to get out of London anyway, been here too long. :/