Water Leak

[penfold]

I'm after some advice as I seem to have an ongoing leak which is coming through the roof in my bedroom. I had the same problem over the last couple of years and had some repairs done (cracked tiles replaced and some edging done) by two different builders but the problem doesn't seem to have gone away. It did seem like it had, but I can't tell when the problem actually comes. It was pretty bad a couple of weeks ago and I am trying to get someone out this weekend to look at it, but basically I wanted to know if anyone had any thoughts on where the water was coming from. I've been into the attic and can't see anything obvious but the last 2 days in the morning it has been pretty bad, but by the time I have got home from work it seems to have dried out. This was taken when I got up yesterday The first 2 are from each corner of the room and the last one is above the window.

 

Again this morning I found it like this: As you can see there is fresh water but as far as I can see there was no rain last night (or very little) so I'm not sure where this is coming from.

 

Has anyone had anything similar or could suggest reasons for this happening? I know that water can travel, but I would like to get this sorted and if anyone can think of reasons I could check or even ask someone to check when they come round it would be much appreciated.

 

Thanks

[JJonas]

are your gutters blocked?

[Mcshammer_dj]

how well is your loft insulated.

 

You may have heat leaching into the loft or space and hitting cold inner lining (felt) and causing condensation. This can built up and slowly drip down onto the ceiling and then find its way through at the gaps at the edge of the ceiling

[Andrew_C]

Explore the condensation idea some more. Have the soffits been replaced with plastic? Did they just slap plastic over the old wood? Did they add any ventilation? (You can't have too much in a loft!)

 

Any flashing around the roof? A favourite route for water to get in.

[penfold]

are your gutters blocked?

 

Nope, or at least they weren't and seem quite far away from the house to cause that amount of water. I will need to get a ladder and have a look (which I'm hoping to do tomorrow)

[penfold]

how well is your loft insulated.

 

You may have heat leaching into the loft or space and hitting cold inner lining (felt) and causing condensation. This can built up and slowly drip down onto the ceiling and then find its way through at the gaps at the edge of the ceiling

 

It's not the greatest insulation to be honest. Are you saying that heat could be going up through the roof anywhere and then condensation would accumulate dripping down the path of least resistance into the corner of the rooms? In which case, what are my options; insulate everywhere? or can I do something above the corners of the rooms to see if this is the case (such as chuck more insulation into the 2 corners)?

[penfold]

Explore the condensation idea some more. Have the soffits been replaced with plastic? Did they just slap plastic over the old wood? Did they add any ventilation? (You can't have too much in a loft!)

 

Any flashing around the roof? A favourite route for water to get in.

 

Ventilation seems to be OK. At least I could feel a draught when I have been up in the past. I don't think they just slapped plastic over wood.

 

One other thing to add is that the house is a semi and the worst part is where we are connected to next door but I couldn't see anything obvious coming from next door and there is a wall in between the two attics.

[Andrew_C]

Airflow; to allow any moist air out of the loft.

 

Also, window open or extract on after showers, and avoid (yeah, I know) drying clothes indoors.

 

 

ETA;

Is your roof continuous over the party wall? Or is there a step with flashing / leadwork? That sound to me like where I'd start looking.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Andrew_C

[Disaster]

I had a problem with a leaky pipe that only leaked when the heating was on, which looked similar to this. It looks like a bit of water is getting there in one go rather than a steady influx so maybe a leak or something overflowing, as you mentioned not much rain lately...

[penfold]

Airflow; to allow any moist air out of the loft.

 

Also, window open or extract on after showers, and avoid (yeah, I know) drying clothes indoors.

 

 

ETA;

Is your roof continuous over the party wall? Or is there a step with flashing / leadwork? That sound to me like where I'd start looking.

 

Roof is continuous. But we do have a lot of washing drying round the house as we have a nearly 2 year old who goes through clean clothes no problem:( Unfortunately don't have the space for a dryer. Could it really cause that much water though?

 

We do get A LOT of condensation on windows but I didn't think it would cause a problem like I'm seeing from the ceiling

Edited December 4, 2014 by penfold

[hardtailstar]

Have a look at all the wood work in loft,

 

We had a sort of similar leak, turns we had a cracked tile and the water was running down the wood from one corner to the other and going through the hole for the light switch.

 

It may not be that you've got a cracked tile but could tell you if its coming from one corner to another, rather than straight down.

[Sunnyknight]

Simply put, get a plasterboard knife, and cut a 50cm by 50 cm area around that corner. You'll have to replace the plasterboard anyway.

 

Then get to work on finding where the leak is.

 

The fact that you haven't as such done that, boggles the mind. It's the first thing i would do.

 

Break it open, and take a look.

[win]

Does it occur in summer too or only winter? If it's in summer too then it's a leaky pipe

 

If winter only, then it is weather related. You probably have wall penetrating damp that is seeping through the masonry. Get some weatherproof paint on the outside of the walls or something similar.

[difinity]

From the amount of water and the location i don't think it's condensation. I've experienced both loft condensation and a leaky roof and they are both very different. The whole of the loft got damp with condensation as opposed to a damp corner of my room. Unless you have plastic sheet lining your loft for some strange reason the warm air will condense on the back of the felt inbetween the rafters rather than pool in the corners

It might be worth investing in a dehumidifier if you are drying clothes indoors. Very cheap to run.

[Andrew_C]

Can happen; especially if there is a cold bridge in the wall, or above in the loft. I do agree though, condensation wouldn't be at the top of my list, just a possible.

[penfold]

It's only happened recently so I assume it is weather related, as I said we did have this problem before but thought it was due to cracked tiles which were replaced. The thing that is puzzling me is that fact that it has been the last two mornings and the weather hasn't been that bad - certainly last night I didn't think we had any rain.

@Sunnyknight - the reason I haven't started hacking away at things is because I'm not confident of what I would be doing and don't want to make things worse but if I have to do that I will.

[penfold]

From the amount of water and the location i don't think it's condensation. I've experienced both loft condensation and a leaky roof and they are both very different. The whole of the loft got damp with condensation as opposed to a damp corner of my room. Unless you have plastic sheet lining your loft for some strange reason the warm air will condense on the back of the felt inbetween the rafters rather than pool in the corners

It might be worth investing in a dehumidifier if you are drying clothes indoors. Very cheap to run.

 

The attic is dry. The only problem I have is getting into the small space where the end of the room is from the attic as I'm ending up on my chest so I can get as close as possible but can't see anything obvious.

[hallb15]

It could be your central heating feed and expansion cistern that is overflowing. If there was a fault causing too much pressure - e.g. sludge or a blockage in a pipe somewhere, then it is possible that water is being pumped from the boiler into the F&E cistern whilst the heating is on. After a while it will start to overflow and there should be an overflow pipe that leads from the cistern out of the loft but maybe this has become dislodged so instead the water is overflowing into the loft.

[sted]

is it worth dropping an old icecream tub (or other box that can hold water or even a sheet of plastic etc) above that wall in the loft see if that fills up might narrow down where its coming from

[penfold]

is it worth dropping an old icecream tub (or other box that can hold water or even a sheet of plastic etc) above that wall in the loft see if that fills up might narrow down where its coming from

 

I'll try that tonight I think, at least I can try and see if anything happens before I get a proper chance to look at it tomorrow. Cheers.

[Sunnyknight]

@Sunnyknight - the reason I haven't started hacking away at things is because I'm not confident of what I would be doing and don't want to make things worse but if I have to do that I will.

 

Nothing to it mate.

 

You could do it with a normal saw (but believe me, that increases the chances of damaging other things even more!), but i wouldn't go about it that way, plasterboard knife is safer. If you want, use a old chisel and hammer. Crack the joins first, then slowly move outwards.

 

Imagine cutting a shape out of a piece of paper, that's all your doing. It will take you about 20 - 30 mins to get the 50/50 cm area knocked out correctly, and if you don't find it the issue then, i'd be worried. I can remember when my uncle left his like you have.... one day it poured with rain, badly. Went to crack it open the next day, you don't want to know how bad the smell was, and the damage caused.

 

Also i read that a few builders have looked at it? Cowboys? If i was to work on it, i'd do the above, and then (if pipe related) replace a meter of copper pipe (which in turn would mean a full plasterboard or 2 replacement, messy, but worth it). Stress test and stress test again.

 

Could it be a issue with water leaking from a bathroom? Bathtub? Sink? Shower? If there's a little gap between floor tiles that allows water through? Condensation?

 

If it's weather related, that's a different story all together and i would seek a competent and reputable building repair specialist. Can't really help much with weather related issues.

[penfold]

@Sunnyknight - I'm inclined to think it's weather related as it doesn't happen all the time. I had 1st set of builders in who replaced some tiles and a second (who was a friend of a friend) come a year later who had noticed that we didn't have a run off into the gutter so replaced that but that was before the summer but he thought the roof looked ok. We haven't had a problem until recently but I left a plastic bowl to collect water and there was nothing (and nothing I could see anywhere near where the problem is).

 

I have been keeping an eye on the windows and ensuring that they are left open for a bit as we are drying clothes in side and the problem doesn't seem to have happened again (at least not so bad) but I can't see that amount of water being from just condensation. The builder cancelled at the weekend so I'm going to try and get a few more numbers so I can ask them to have a look at the whole roof in case the problem is not directly where the water is getting in.

[5tu]

Hi @penfold

 

Personally I think it probably is condensation. You mention that you get a lot of condensation on your windows. If the surrounding wall areas are especially cold and your heating is on drying clothes on radiators it is quite possible that the amount of water you're seeing is in fact condensation. I had a similar problem on a 1930s house. The wall below the upstairs bay window would look very similar to yours, if not worse, in winter when the temperature outside fell and the heating was on inside. For me the answer was to insulate the wall. Not being a builder I won't try to guess what the best remedy for you might be, but I would try going 24-48hrs without having the heating on (hard with a young child I can appreciate) to see if the problem gets any better - if so, you know it's condensation.

 

Are you able to see if the eaves in the loft haven't been blocked and have adequate ventilation?

Edited December 9, 2014 by gybe78