Request for comments on our latest installation

[openhgs]

Here is a picture of our latest installation

http://www.openhgs.org.uk/albums/techsupp/pic_0185.thumb.jpg.

Here is a link to a larger image http://www.openhgs.org.uk/albums/techsupp/pic_0185.jpg

I'd like some comments on problems, which I can present to all here who reckon that the installtion is fine. BTW, the single part trunking carries both power and cat5e cabling, the latter of which is unshielded.

[mrforgetful]

Are you seriously keeping the keyboards on the PCs?

[Guest]

Cabling issues aside, how on earth are you supposed to use the keyboard and mouse?

[enjay]

I can see the keyboards getting damaged very quickly, plus without the lifts on the back, the angle must be a touch uncomfortable. The monitor is probably too high, too. Also, using a mouse which is at a different height to the keyboard is really awkward, we have a few computer trolleys like that and I hate them.

 

It could just be the photo, but you seem to have about 20cm "spare" space behind the trunking, yet no room to put the keyboards down in front of the PCs!

 

I've no issues with the shared trunking, mind you; we use quite a bit of it here.

 

As a "solution", I'd consider standing the PCs tower-like between the monitors, or possible even leaving them as desktops but standing one on top of the other (obviously making it clear which is which, so people can use pen drives).

[Lee_K_81]

WTF! was this is senior manglement brainchild?

[PeterW]

Cabling issues aside

I looked at the cables behind the PC and thought "Holy spaghetti cables batman!" Maybe just some cable ties would be a nice quick fix here.

 

Are you able to stand the PCs on thier sides behind the monitor?

[Domino]

could you not put the base untis on their side behind the monitor, then have enough room for a keyboard?

[webman]

Ergonomically-speaking, users will virtually kill themselves. The HSE would have a fit if they saw that. And I thought trunking had to have dividers in to separate data/power - is it not regulation?

[DMcCoy]

Its unusable. The keyboard needs to have space on the desk so its at the right height. What sort of level is the monitor compared to student eye height?

 

The benching is not deep enough, I get all benches 800mm deep to fit trunking -> cables -> base unit -> keyboard depth.

 

I wouldn't let anyone use it if it was mine.

[Quackers]

Black TFT's with White base units and keyboards? 8O VILE!

[webman]

They're not white, they're beige

[enjay]

Black TFT's with White base units and keyboards? 8O VILE!

You should see our black mouse, white keyboard combo :-)

 

I'm not a big fan of black TFTs though, I find them a bit imposing - I much prefer silver/grey ones.

[localzuk]

As others have said - you need to stand the units up so there is space on the surface for the kb and mouse.

 

The trunking should not be a single section, as you don't have any protection from electrical interference and the network cabling install would therefore not be certifiable as CAT5.

 

The monitor stand looks very flimsy as do the keyboards. I would look at having the computers mounted under the desk, with a fixed pole with the tft on. Probable cost of doing that would be about £100 for the tft pole, and £100 for the cage/shelf for the PC.

 

Was this an inhouse install? Or did an external company do it?

[unixman]

Ergonomically-speaking, users will virtually kill themselves. The HSE would have a fit if they saw that. And I thought trunking had to have dividers in to separate data/power - is it not regulation?

 

AFAIK there is no regulation which specifies separate data and power, however there is plenty of information available on Electromagnetic Interference (EMI). Point the idiots performed this installation at http://www.lanshack.com/cat5e-tutorial.aspx and http://www.connectworld.net/syscon/support.htm. It is recommended that there is 12" between power and data, unless a busbar trunking systems is employed.

 

EMI can cause chaos on a network. Typical symptoms - Windows shared drives mysteriously vanishing, connections to database servers terminating, networked printers spewing random garbage, huge number of packet collisions (slow response), etc. EMI is a difficult problem to diagnose without specialist equipment. If you know that power and data cabling are in close proximity, such as in the same trunking, and there are network issues, EMI is a safe bet.

 

The wasted space being the trunking is brilliant! I'm also impressed with the lack of space for keyboards, mice and for people to work. Will the base units fit behind the trunking? This might be a way to gain extra space.

 

Ideally you should get it reinstalled and have the trunking installed on the wall behind or under the benching if possible. I'll bet that will happen. I'm guessing that the installation was out of your hands. Anyone that allows such shoddy work should be dismissed instantly.

[plexer]

I would not have mains power and cat5 networking in the same trunking running parallel crossing is ok.

 

Those machines are unusable with the key boards perched on the top, their is not support for the ends as the machines aren't wide enough.

 

the keyboards need to be on the desk with the base units either on their side behind the monitors, to the side of the monitors or 2 base units on top of itself.

 

What depth is that worktop 600mm? however specified it should be taken outside and shot.

 

Ben

[Vegas]

We put the trunking underneath the benching with a hole cut into the worktop at the back for the power and Cat5, we then just zip tie the excess to keep it away from stray legs, works a treat with no problems.

[bishopsgarthstockton]

thats no good

[Halfmad]

I completely agree with unixman and plexer, that's an awful installation and equipment spec.

 

My initial thought was "lol"

 

sorry but it's almost comical.

[ninjabeaver]

I;m gonna have to agree with everyone on here. Very bad design, positioning etc. I think moving the PC Box on its side and placing behind the monitor would be a great start though. Have the keyboard and mouse on the benching. I would cable tie the cables behind so its all out of the way. I don't know if it would work or not, but perhaps tie wrapping the mouse and keyboard leads to the monitor base as well will give them extra security, but leave a good bit of slack for movement etc.

 

It just needs some refinement. I've had a similar room here, which was tidied up a bit, but you have to work with what you are given.

[danIT]

Why purchase flat screen monitors if your are going to abuse the added space they create on a desk.

 

Flat screen monitor with its small foot print give the pupil more room for hand written exercises and text books etc, and you've planted a workstation smack bang in the space, stand the units up on the feet that probably came with the units - which you've probably thrown away.

 

That keyboard position is terrible, completely un-usable and impractical. Forget about getting cables tidy, position the computers and monitors/Key boards in a way that makes them usable.

[enjay]

The problem with what some of you are suggesting of putting the base units side on behind the monitor is that this can be incredibly messy to look at. Side-on and in between the users, i.e. with all the cables pointing backwards would be much neater (although can provide nice little screens to hide what they're doing).

[john]

Not a nice layout at all, needs re-jigging from scratch. Keyboard should be infront the screen with mouse to the left/right of the keyboard. Baseunits need to be on the floor, under the desk or if on the desk not squashing the user.

[openhgs]

Thanks for the replies nice people!

 

To answer a few questions raised. A professional cabling company performed the installation and ICT had no say in the matter. We in ICT installed the machines as best we could. We chose the smallest footprint boxes we had in stock and went with flat screens to keep it compact. I assumed the cabling people, would be fitting it to the wall behind or underneath the benching. The keyboards are on top of the base units simply because there is no where else to put them. I am reluctant to put the base units on their sides as they are prone to fall over. The monitors are more stable than they appear. Apparently there are plans to put the base units underneath, which will help recover some space.

 

Yes, we've said the trunking should be removed and not mounted on the surface. Our pleas have fallen on deaf ears. Trunking on the bench is a waste of space. I also have visions of bottles of drink being knocked over and spilling into the power sockets with dire consequences. Try as we might, we cannot keep drinks completely out of the classrooms.

 

I am not happy about the data and electrical cabling running in the same trunking. I pointed this out to the big wigs, who checked back with the installers, and were told it is OK to do this. It was then pointed out to me that we have similar cabling on other areas of the school, which I didn't know about. That might explain some of the intermittent problems that we experience. They are exactly as unixman described; shared drives vanishing, connections to CMIS terminating for no reason, eportal dropping off the face of the planet etc. I know it's a very bad idea to run data and power cabling together, but them in charge seem unwilling to accept my advice.

 

We in ICT are between a rock and a hard place; we are probably going to have to make the best of this mess, and when network traffic grinds to a halt as a consequence of collisions, we can say "well we warned you". This room is connected to the rest of the network by a fibre link. I don't if the EMI will just affect this room or have wider consequences.

[_Bat_]

Keyboard should be infront the screen with mouse to the left/right of the keyboard

 

Not all our classroom PCs are like this

 

See here on our virtual tour for example:

 

http://www.theovalprimary.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13

 

You can see that the keyboard is to the left of the monitor and when the monitor is in use, they just turn it so they can see what they are doing. There is no room to do it any other way. The desk cannot be any larger due to the doorway being just to the right of it. That just happens to be where the network point is located

[webman]

You can see that the keyboard is to the left of the monitor and when the monitor is in use, they just turn it so they can see what they are doing. There is no room to do it any other way. The desk cannot be any larger due to the doorway being just to the right of it. That just happens to be where the network point is located

 

I know you're making the best out of the situation; but that is a very bad set up for prolonged use. Anyone using that workstaion for any amount of time should experience shoulder pains from looking over all the time. Monitor should always be directly infront of keyboard/mouse.