[sims] Deleting an SEN status

[WithoutMotive]

Hi guys,

 

Some help required, please, as we haven't had a successful response from either our LA or Capita themselves, yet.

Our data manager entered an SEN status under a pupil's details in error and had it changed to another status. However, this change is now in the Overview of the pupil's SEN record. I understand that it will keep these as a history of SEN status but this was a mistake and needs to be deleted. The Delete... button and the Open... button next to this SEN status is greyed out for our data manager and also for me so there's no way we can delete it. Anyone know why?

 

 

Cheers

[SteveT]

Think this is likely to be a deliberate ploy to prevent changing a student's history. This could have legal as well as educational consequences. Suspect the only way to rectify this mistake is for one of their developers to delve into sql and alter the actual records in the database!!! Best of luck with that one!!!

[WithoutMotive]

I thought as much. Thanks, anyway.

[vikpaw]

The open and delete button work for things you create in the overview using the New button.

If there needs to be a status in there and you just put the wrong one in, change it to the correct one in section three and put the start date to the same as the date that appears in the overview. You should get a warning then it will overwrite it.

If you need nothing to show, then it's harder, but you could use a status of N for No Need, or 0 for Provision no longer needed. It's not ideal, but at least shows the correct thing. I think those codes should exist, but we have customised ours so you'd have to check what you have available in the lookup.

[Liam]

Im having this issue now..

 

I have checked permissions and they are all fine.

 

Capita suggested that i check the region of the computer and run windows updates. Thats all done too..

 

Its so frustrating - any suggestions?

 

Thanks

[Esteban_Child_of_the_Sun]

You need to do as vikpaw suggested except now you can follow KB-474397 afterward to clean things up "Contact your Local Support Unit and request patch 21841. This activates the fix in Check 96 and allows it to remove SEN status history or current statuses of N (No Special Educational Needs), for students who have never had any other status." Edited November 10, 2017 by Esteban_Child_of_the_Sun

[djrscally]

That sounds annoying. Are many fields in SIMS similarly controlled? Can you not just SQL those records out?

[Liam]

had to request the patch.. but then our LA didn't have it to release to us so they have had to ask capita!

 

All this to delete a SEN status!

 

Thanks for all your help though folks..

 

Should be sorted soon with any luck!

[vikpaw]

That sounds annoying. Are many fields in SIMS similarly controlled? Can you not just SQL those records out?

 

That’s what the patches and auto fixes are for.

You can’t SQL directly, to maintain integrity, and ensure it’s done properly without affecting anything else you have to get Capita supplied fixes.

[djrscally]

That’s what the patches and auto fixes are for.

You can’t SQL directly, to maintain integrity, and ensure it’s done properly without affecting anything else you have to get Capita supplied fixes.

 

Late reply I know; I've been off for a while. Is this "Capita would really rather you didn't" or "Capita won't give you the logins to the SQL database"?

[vikpaw]

You probably can appropriate more than enough power. Two issues: One, you will most likely screw something up as there are many weird links to random unobvious places, and Two, you will fall foul of your support agreement and when something does go wrong they won’t simply fix it for you, it will be chargeable. At the rates they charge, is it worth the hassle?

 

Edit:

Also all patches and fixes are logged in the system so in the future they know what has been applied and avoid future conflicts.

 

I don’t mean to be all doom and gloom but it’s just not worth the negative fallout for messing with the DB. Even the ones that know what they are doing release updates which are sometimes full of bugs!

Edited December 4, 2017 by vikpaw

[djrscally]

You probably can appropriate more than enough power. Two issues: One, you will most likely screw something up as there are many weird links to random unobvious places, and Two, you will fall foul of your support agreement and when something does go wrong they won’t simply fix it for you, it will be chargeable. At the rates they charge, is it worth the hassle?

 

Well I was more thinking "What if I want to hook up SSRS or Power BI". The not-messing-with-stuff-you're-likely-to-break point is fair enough.

[jdsa]

What's the issue with giving a status of N and backdating to their school start date? That would remove any incorrect statuses right?

[Esteban_Child_of_the_Sun]

NULL= never had a SEN,

N= Used to have SEN but after latest review no-longer qualifies for any of the current statuses.

[jdsa]

Is this distinction used anywhere that isn't SIMS (e.g. I'm sure the School Census doesn't distinguish between N or Null)? Just wondering how important it is to sort this out on our database.

[djrscally]

Is this distinction used anywhere that isn't SIMS (e.g. I'm sure the School Census doesn't distinguish between N or Null)? Just wondering how important it is to sort this out on our database.

 

 

No it's not. Null values will be exported as N's on the census return.

[bobsmith]

However N's are not reported in the "pupil sen report" within the Census - so while there is a distinction - I'm 99% sure it doesn't have any real world impact.

 

I want to get rid of the 370!! false N's that we've inherited and hopefully the patch is released to us shortly.

It makes it a pain explaining to some staff that some N's mean that the student has a SEN history but most don't!

[Seb1780]

You can get rid of false N's through Bulk Update - that's what I do every year when the new Y7's come in and some schools have used "N" for "No SEN" wheras others have used it for "No Longer SEN"

 

I've also set up our own "No Longer SEN" code (X)

 

First I shift any genuine "No Longer SEN" to the new code, then right-click at the top of the "No Special Educational Need" column and select "UnCheck All"

[bobsmith]

I've just tried your trick @Seb1780 - it sort of works....

 

The N's have certainly disappeared from the standard reports I run, though what it's actually done is ended their SEN status of N on the effective date provided when running the bulk update.

 

This makes life easier - but I'd still want to run the patches to remove the historical statuses for those students where they've never had a need at all.

[vikpaw]

Well I was more thinking "What if I want to hook up SSRS or Power BI". The not-messing-with-stuff-you're-likely-to-break point is fair enough.

 

No major issues with setting up read only access and linking up whatever you want. I used to have a few manually scheduled exports of data to sync up to other systems. So long as you monitor access and it doesn't become an overhead.

[The_Knitter]

Is this distinction used anywhere that isn't SIMS (e.g. I'm sure the School Census doesn't distinguish between N or Null)? Just wondering how important it is to sort this out on our database.

 

I'd be very interested to know the answer to this too. A significant number of our Year 7 students have come through with N status via ctf. They've never been assessed so I'm not sure why the primaries have assigned them as N. Scomis provide our support and told me they wouldn't want to use the patch to remove. It's a nuisance though as teachers will assume N - for no longer on SEN register.

[djrscally]

I'd be very interested to know the answer to this too. A significant number of our Year 7 students have come through with N status via ctf. They've never been assessed so I'm not sure why the primaries have assigned them as N. Scomis provide our support and told me they wouldn't want to use the patch to remove. It's a nuisance though as teachers will assume N - for no longer on SEN register.

 

 

There's officially no difference between an N and a null value; on the census for example nulls are exported as Ns because that field can't be blank according to the validation rules. It might just be that the primary's MIS does the same thing and fills in an N so that the SEN fields are present in the xml.

 

I'm mildly interested in the discussion actually, as at my school we've never distinguished between "no longer SEN" and "has never been SEN" - they both show as N on every report.

[bobsmith]

I introduced the M code to distinguish between them.

 

It's actually gone done well with our SEN team as it helps them identify them quickly too.

 

The M code is just an alias for the N code for census purposes - but to the staff it means "SEN Monitoring" which just means we are aware that they are truly ex-SEN.

[Seb1780]

@bobsmith - have you seen this topic on the Capita forum?

 

https://myaccount.capita-cs.co.uk/forums/thread/SIMS-technicalkk-last/428c35c8-4daa-e911-80fc-000d3a264101