Woolwich Attack

[tmcd35]

The questions that need asking, and why COBRA would be convened, are:

 

Is this an isolated incident?

Is this a new modus opperandi of a larger 'group', or a lone couple of nutters?

What are the repercussions of this to the wider country? (Mosque attacks, far right taking more of a handle-hold etc...)

Should the threat level in the country be increased?

Did the intelligence services know about these guys?

Was it specifically targeted at this guy, or the military as a whole?

 

So COBRA convenes and asks these questions every time there is a random murder? Or are the police and intelligence services paid to do a job? Either there's more to this than has been reporting, or someones trying to earn cheap political capital out of it. Maybe I'm too tired and shouldn't be watching BBC news at 5 in the morning, but I swear they made less noise about Princes Di's death or the 2005 London bombings.

 

It's seems we are now living in a country where every non-white is a job stealing immigrant and part of some secret terrorist cell out to get us. Sad, very sad.

[sted]

So COBRA convenes and asks these questions every time there is a random murder? Or are the police and intelligence services paid to do a job? Either there's more to this than has been reporting, or someones trying to earn cheap political capital out of it.

 

I suspect there would be more fallout if they didn't convene cobra than they will get for doing it or that's their thought process better to be seen doing anything than waiting for the facts to come out then making a decision

[tmcd35]

I suspect there would be more fallout if they didn't convene cobra than they will get for doing it or that's their thought process better to be seen doing anything than waiting for the facts to come out then making a decision

 

Fallout? Why? So every time there's a random murder on the street the first thing the BBC, Sky News, Daily Mail (actually they probably would) do is phone downing street and say "have you convened COBRA yet?". I don't buy it. This is a knee jerk reaction to an unfortunate event that sends all the wrong messages to the country in my book.

[sted]

Fallout? Why? So every time there's a random murder on the street the first thing the BBC, Sky News, Daily Mail (actually they probably would) do is phone downing street and say "have you convened COBRA yet?". I don't buy it. This is a knee jerk reaction to an unfortunate event that sends all the wrong messages to the country in my book.

 

im not saying their would be but I suspect they are afraid that there would be if you see what I mean

[localzuk]

So COBRA convenes and asks these questions every time there is a random murder?

 

A violent attack by apparent religious extremists in a very public place? Yeah, they would convene for that.

[LeMarchand]

Fallout? Why? So every time there's a random murder on the street the first thing the BBC, Sky News, Daily Mail (actually they probably would) do is phone downing street and say "have you convened COBRA yet?". I don't buy it. This is a knee jerk reaction to an unfortunate event that sends all the wrong messages to the country in my book.

 

The attackers may well be random nutters just claiming that their motivation was Islam, but surely the fact that they made such a claim turns it into something that warrants further investigation? If they'd been ranting about doing it in the name of Mother Gaia, then Cameron would probably still be enjoying the fine wines of France.

[Willott]

It appalls me that the police could describe someone who is other than chalk white as "of muslim appearance" unless they were wearing a burkha or a sign. Definitely institutional racism.

 

Possibly described as of muslim appearance in that the comments they made made them appear to be muslim? (use of Allah in some of the witness reports)

[tmcd35]

A violent attack by [b]apparent religious extremists[/b] in a very public place? Yeah, they would convene for that.

 

That's the bit that gets me. I think this steams from one of them shouting the islamic for "god is great". I fear this is going to be a couple of nut jobs upset with the government because their benefit was stopped, or some such. When do we loose sight of the line between individual religious nutters and terrorist sleeper cells? Have we really become that paranoid as a society?

 

Like I say, I think the wrong messages are being sent by both the media and government.

[6Foot2]

This includes some detail I had not heard before [Note: Some content might cause upset]

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ks6uFjXMos

[Willott]

That's the bit that gets me. I think this steams from one of them shouting the islamic for "god is great". I fear this is going to be a couple of nut jobs upset with the government because their benefit was stopped, or some such. When do we loose sight of the line between individual religious nutters and terrorist sleeper cells? Have we really become that paranoid as a society?

 

Like I say, I think the wrong messages are being sent by both the media and government.

 

To be honest, which would you prefer, that COBRA didn't convene based on the information that has been provided through the media (there's probably a whole lot more information that we don't know about) and there be possible further attacks from groups (if linked) or that COBRA did convene, did some work (I don't think they get paid overtime for that) and ensure that the police/security services are doing there jobs?

 

At present we don't know whether there are individual nutters, sleeper cells, non-religious home grown terrorists using religion as a shield for their real identity and agenda or someone testing the response to a suspected attack on a member of the armed forces, or whatever else it may have been.

[tmcd35]

To be honest, which would you prefer, that COBRA didn't convene based on the information that has been provided through the media (there's probably a whole lot more information that we don't know about) and there be possible further attacks from groups (if linked) or that COBRA did convene, did some work (I don't think they get paid overtime for that) and ensure that the police/security services are doing there jobs?)

 

Honestly? - Probably that they did convene but didn't make such a song and dance all over the media about it.

[sted]

Honestly? - Probably that they did convene but didn't make such a song and dance all over the media about it.

 

24/7 news you have to report something whether its new or not

[DeltaBravo]

* @DeltaBravo Surely it is terrible for this to be done to ANYONE?

 

@witch Of course it is a terrible thing to happen to anyone, I was just relating to this instant.

[Arthur]

I wonder what the woman standing in front of the guy ranting, holding a cleaver and with blood dripping off his hands, was thinking

Here is her account...

 

www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/22/woolwich-first-person-account

[36Degrees]

I watched Newsnight last night and I think it explained why COBRA was involved - 1) They expected these sorts of attacks from extremists during the Olympics 2) Sources telling journalists that one of the suspects had previously tried to join up with terrorist organisations.

 

If the suspects did wait for armed Police, and then rushed them, I believe that they wanted martyrdom.

 

* Edited Link: it was for Tuesday's episode and last night's isn't available at the moment

Edited May 23, 2013 by 36Degrees

[tmcd35]

I watched Newsnight last night and I think it explained why COBRA was involved - 1) They expected these sorts of attacks from extremists during the Olympics 2) Sources telling journalists that one of the suspects had previously tried to join up with terrorist organisations.

 

If the suspects did wait for armed Police, and then rushed them, I believe that they wanted martyrdom.

 

Something just feels wrong about that. I don't what, or why, so maybe I'm not explaining it right? But even more so after reading the fascinating (and more news worthy) link in @Arthur's post, I've got this gut feeling that this doesn't fit right with the "terrorists hiding behind every bush" scenario. Maybe I'm wrong, who knows?

[pcstru]

Here is her account...

 

www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/22/woolwich-first-person-account

 

It would be nice if people remembered this incident, not because of the horrific lunacy, but because an ordinary woman acting to help others without a thought for her personal safety is an extraordinary example of compassion and humanity. Ingrid Loyau-Kennett, I salute you.

[pooley]

Doesn't matter why they did it, THEY DID IT. Unfortunatley the only punishment they can recieve is "life" imprisonment, which is never for life. Bring back Capitol punishment - Life for a life.

[36Degrees]

after reading the fascinating (and more news worthy) link in @Arthur's post, I've got this gut feeling that this doesn't fit right with the "terrorists hiding behind every bush" scenario.

 

Perhaps - the interviewees were ex-Home Secratary John Reid and someone else who was heavily involved in UK security strategies from 2000 to 2011 (sorry I can't be more specific, last night's Newsnight isn't on iPlayer as I thought). I don't believe there are "terrorists hiding behind every bush" either and I know the media love to sensationalise, invent facts, print unverified speculation, etc. but I hope that the decision to use COBRA was based on intelligence and not just a knee-jerk reaction.

[Pyroman]

Doesn't matter why they did it, THEY DID IT. Unfortunatley the only punishment they can recieve is "life" imprisonment, which is never for life. Bring back Capitol punishment - Life for a life.

 

Which is what these 2 fellas said, an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth and that just completes the circle. You kill one of ours we kill one of yours and so on and so on. An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.

[Simcfc73]

The fact a soldier was beheaded in broad daylight in a similar way that was plotted by the terrorist cell broken up by the police a few years ago makes it a cobra incident. Liveleaks got a bit on it. LiveLeak.com - Beheading in Woolwich, UK - British Soldier Dead The twitter feed takes some translating though. Islamic extemism is getting bigger in Africa (can I say that or am I racist?) so its to be expected that they join the party.

[Simcfc73]

Which is what these 2 fellas said, an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth and that just completes the circle. You kill one of ours we kill one of yours and so on and so on. An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.

 

An eye for an eye takes one less nutter off this planet, better that then letting him play on his xbox in prison for 25 years (out in 2 weeks with a tag on)

[Pyroman]

An eye for an eye takes one less nutter off this planet, better that then letting him play on his xbox in prison for 25 years (out in 2 weeks with a tag on)

 

and you then create a martyr, i think (for once) the police did a decent job by not killing these 2 fellas, the hanging around and waiting for police makes me wonder whether that was their intended outcome, to either be shot and killed by other soldiers or the feds (suicide by cop). At least as they're alive they can be interrogated and interviewed

[sted]

An eye for an eye takes one less nutter off this planet, better that then letting him play on his xbox in prison for 25 years (out in 2 weeks with a tag on)

 

and yo remove any chance of rehabilitation and if you can rehabilitate someone like that then surely that is a good thing (and for all we know they may have mental health issues and its very harsh to execute someone for something they cant control)

[witch]

Life actually does mean life if the judge says so. The Yorkshire Ripper will never be free. Ditto the Soham murderer and others.

 

Could I also point out that people who kill are neither Christian or Moslem as both faiths do not allow murder of innocents, and the Qu'ran says that those who kill a child will never go to the divine afterlife.

The Qu'ran also states far more tolerance and respect of Christianity and other religions than the other way around.

As always, it is people and culture who corrupt the message of these essentially peaceful religions