OverWorked Posted January 13, 2011 Posted January 13, 2011 Can anyone tell me in simple terms what the new Serco MIS, Progresso, is? Is it a replacement for Facility or is it to be optional alongside Facility? Thanks.
DevilsAdvocate Posted January 13, 2011 Posted January 13, 2011 To my limited knowledge, I believe it's a replacement. Don't take my word as gospel though. 1
donalouise Posted January 13, 2011 Posted January 13, 2011 It's a replacement to Facility. As far as I know Facility will still be available for a while but will eventually be phased out to be replaced with Progresso. 1
john Posted January 14, 2011 Posted January 14, 2011 Have you had the Progresso Email that Davinder sent to NY Schols Overworked?? Its the replacement for Facility, Eportal. 4 year or so migration peropd from next year
OverWorked Posted January 14, 2011 Author Posted January 14, 2011 Have you had the Progresso Email that Davinder sent to NY Schols Overworked?? Its the replacement for Facility, Eportal. 4 year or so migration peropd from next year I got Davinder's email - it's what prompted me to ask the question here! I wanted to know if the event is something that might just be interesting, or if it's something I really need to go to. The answers here prove it's the latter. Thanks everyone!
penfold_99 Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 I spoke with the product manager for progresso at bett. Progresso is the replacement for facility, any new schools moving to serco before nov 2011 will be given facility, migration to progresso will be school led from nov 2011. Schools moving to serco after nov 2011 will be given progresso. Progresso will include a SIF agent, cost is currently unknown.
Tricky_Dicky Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 It's also worth mentioning that it's entirely web based even to the point that Serco are going to be hosting it for you (from what I understand). It looks a really nice product and being built on MS SQL links really well with there reporting program which should make it a lot more usable.
victory2009 Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 i do not like the idea its hosted in the cloud - concerns regarding data protection etc... also i asked what would happen if our net went down was told to get a backup link ... did anyone see if serco have been working on a mobile solution - would love something like sims have with the ipad syncing the data etc for pe dep
garrysaddington Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 i do not like the idea its hosted in the cloud - concerns regarding data protection etc. If the idea is to give teachers/parents 24/7 access to the data then hosting on site or off has the same security issues. Data centres are meant to mitigate those issues, and I hope Serco are registered with the Data Commissioner.
Tricky_Dicky Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Yes it is an issue that your internet connection may go down, but how often does that happen in comparison to your on site servers going down?
penfold_99 Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 If the idea is to give teachers/parents 24/7 access to the data then hosting on site or off has the same security issues. Data centres are meant to mitigate those issues, and I hope Serco are registered with the Data Commissioner. Serco wouldn't need to be registered with the Data Commissioner (ICO) under the Data Protection Act as they would be a Data Processor not Data Controller. In a cloud environment the school would still be the Data Controller.
Banjo Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 From what I've been led to believe there will be an option for an LA to host and they are looking into school hosting as well, so you'd be able to run on the school's intranet.
victory2009 Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Yes it is an issue that your internet connection may go down, but how often does that happen in comparison to your on site servers going down? serverd never go down - internet is awful through lgfl!!
Tricky_Dicky Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 serverd never go down - internet is awful through lgfl!! Fair enough, I suppose a lot depends on how reliable your internet connection is. But I still like the idea that someone else is looking after the hosting/backups/upadates, it just means one less thing to worry about. Like Banjo said though, it might be possible to host it in house or at least at the LA which might be a better option for yourself. Having spoken to the reps from Serco I believe there are 25 trial schools who are starting using it in November, I don't suppose that is anyone on here is it?
budgester Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Chatted to the Serco people on the stand at BETT, lets say I was less than impressed, two static pages, and that was it, and apparently it will be based on the the same database as the current one, and anyone who has prodded the old database knows that it was probably designed by crack monkeys. They claimed to have one hundred developers working it, so that sounds like none of them has ever read Fred Brooks, The Mythical Man month. So in reality, I reckon it's just a new version of eportal that has been expanded, and they are throwing out the C++ front end.
victory2009 Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Fair enough, I suppose a lot depends on how reliable your internet connection is. But I still like the idea that someone else is looking after the hosting/backups/upadates, it just means one less thing to worry about. Like Banjo said though, it might be possible to host it in house or at least at the LA which might be a better option for yourself. Having spoken to the reps from Serco I believe there are 25 trial schools who are starting using it in November, I don't suppose that is anyone on here is it? we will be trialling it , heard back today around feb , will post here when i know more 1
EdWhittaker Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) Serco wouldn't need to be registered with the Data Commissioner (ICO) under the Data Protection Act as they would be a Data Processor not Data Controller. In a cloud environment the school would still be the Data Controller. Indeed this is true; however it seems impossible to get this point over to schools. Our product is web based and we hold pupil data. No matter how many times I explained that we do not need to be registered at the ICO, schools refused to believe we didn't need to be. You cannot register as a data processor, only as a data controller. In the end we registered as data controllers ourselves so now I can say, "yes we're registered with the ICO" even though it makes sod all difference; but it seems to make them happy. I also get the worries about "Ooh, what happens if our internet goes down?" Well, what happens if your server fails, if your comms room catches fire/floods etc, etc? No system is 100% reliable and web is not less reliable than anything else. To be fair, schools that get their connection via the LA or GfL often have exceptionally poor service, so that is a legitimate concern. I also get the worries about data security, how secure is the data? Well, it's a hell of lot more secure that it was when you kept in a filing cabinet in the main office! This from people who regularly use internet banking, PayPal, Amazon etc on a daily basis without giving security a second thought. I would be quite happy to have my kid's data on Progresso, it's probably safer there than in school, lol! Edited January 17, 2011 by EdWhittaker typo
budgester Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 I also get the worries about "Ooh, what happens if our internet goes down?" Well, what happens if your server fails, if your comms room catches fire/floods etc, etc? No system is 100% reliable and web is not less reliable than anything else. To be fair, schools that get their connection via the LA or GfL often have exceptionally poor service, so that is a legitimate concern. In fact a huge concern, if there is a flood/fire that takes out the comms room, chances are the school is going to be closed. If my internet connection goes down somewhere between my premises and the data centre then I can't do registration, I have no contact details for parents/carers. So unless I keep paper based records up to date as well as the remote server, there is a good chance I will have to send students home as soon as my internet connection goes down. Whereas currently in a pinch I can run CMIS from a laptop if I want to. And my LAN is always going to be more stable than a load of random hops over the internet. And if you think the the web is not less reliable than anything else, I think it's time for you to re-take your fundamental networking classes again.
EdWhittaker Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 In fact a huge concern, if there is a flood/fire that takes out the comms room, chances are the school is going to be closed. If my internet connection goes down somewhere between my premises and the data centre then I can't do registration, I have no contact details for parents/carers. Close the school? Fat chance! When some bright spark turned off the air con to the comms room at my old school all the servers went down. It took a full week to get everything up and running again. Meanwhile the school carried on and everything had to be done on paper. Google, Amazon, Facebook, Twitter and the rest have been operating on 'random hops over the internet' for years; if it's good enough for them it's good enough for me.
PaulHarrington Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 I am the Head of Product at Serco Learning and would like to correct some of the inaccuracies in this thread and address some of the other valid issues raised. Progresso has a completely new database structure and has been designed from the ground up, with none of the legacy Facility system or architecture. We have been working with a large number of customers and will be able to resolve a number of outstanding issues that schools face and introduce significant new functionality. Focus has been given to the user experience and utilising the rapid developments in technology to provide a powerful yet intuitive system. Progresso will incorporate market leading reporting tools that allow all users to access the information within the system through a web interface. In terms of hosting, we will in the first release be offering a fully hosted version with all the benefits that this will bring. It is disappointing to read about some of your experiences with internet availability and I would like to hear how you manage to maintain access to the invaluable internet research tools that learners require in this technology age. We have engineered Progresso to enable us to provide an in school deployment, but believe that over time more and more schools will opt for a hosted managed service and all the benefits that this brings, including data security. We will be releasing a fully functional API to enable the developer community to create apps to provide added value. This will enable the development of an app, such as Emerge (from Groupcall) that has been requested in this thread. Finally, we do have more than 100 engineers working on the project and are conversant with the Mythical Man Month. This is why we develop prototypes that will be presented to our Pioneer group before committing to development. The Pioneer group are 25 schools that were invited to provide feedback and to be early adopters of the product. News of this program will be on our website and twitter account @Serco_Learning. If any one has further questions, please don't hesitate to ask here or DM me. 3
Tricky_Dicky Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 Progresso has a completely new database structure and has been designed from the ground up, with none of the legacy Facility system or architecture. ..... Progresso will incorporate market leading reporting tools that allow all users to access the information within the system through a web interface. ....... It is disappointing to read about some of your experiences with internet availability and I would like to hear how you manage to maintain access to the invaluable internet research tools that learners require in this technology age. Nice to hear from Serco directly. Which Database technology is this being built on? Will we be able to access all resources from the web interface or will some sort of local program be required? That was a beautifully written side swipe by the way
budgester Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 Totally agree, it's nice to hear from a Serco Technical Person, and the comment actually gave me more information that I was able to glean from the stand at BETT. 100 engineers is certainly slightly different to 100 developers, and it's good to know that hopefully there will be a decent database schema. As for the API, I assume we are talking about a web service, something like SOAP, XML-RPC, Rest ? What about the migration strategy ? Assessment templates, events, reports etc. For those of us that have puts years of work into getting the system working as we want it too, to fit our environment, the possibility of having to throw all that work away and start again is pretty appalling. User syncronisation, links to AD, training, embedded knowledge, links to MIS and various other software systems that'll have to be re-written. It can sometimes feel that it is a case of throwing the baby out with the bath water, when a supplier turns round and says we are re-writing the whole application from the ground up.
budgester Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 We will be releasing a fully functional API to enable the developer community to create apps to provide added value. This will enable the development of an app, such as Emerge (from Groupcall) that has been requested in this thread. . Hopefully this will not be restricted to those that pay an additional license fee.
scholarpack Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 Can I ask what it is being developed in language wise?
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