Schools in UK are picking O365 over the superior GSuite - what about in the US

[Ditto]

The title of this thread is taken from a separate thread and is a partial quote from @mavhc. I've left the 'superior' statement but feel free to challenge it.

 

With a number of schools I have worked with recently, they do seem to have gone down the MS route and when asked about G Suite, they didn't really seem to have made a comparison. So, I'm interest to hear from those who have picked O365 over G Suite and vice-versa and the basis for that.

 

I'm interested to also here from our US friends, as I believe the balance is different.

 

P.S. would prefer to keep discussion to O365 and G Suite, but happy to have Apple brought in to the mix, but would prefer to keep open source considerations off topic.

Edited September 20, 2019 by Ditto

[mavhc]

LAs switched people to O365, because they're used to that I guess.

 

And the support companies made up of ex LA people push O365, quote from one was "google store their data on a ship in international waters to avoid EU law" or some such rubbish. Did not hire them.

[jthompson]

We use G Suite. It was lying dormant for us for about 5 years until we decided to switch from on-prem Exchange to Gmail. Since then, usage has exploded nicely.

 

I originally set up the Google Apps domain because it was free and we had a few specific needs for properly collaborative spreadsheets. Google Apps was the system I knew from a previous school, so never really considered O365 at all.

 

Staff love File Stream (teachers are on laptops here) and Google Forms, and I'm sure that the improved support for Office files has played a big part in them shifting over to G Suite in recent months. They won't have thought much about Office files vs native G Docs because it 'just works'. Gmail seems unbeatable, too, particularly on the spam/phishing front. Would not want to ditch G Suite Gmail any time soon!!

[3s-gtech]

I’ve tried to set up our system so both are freely available - it wasn’t for me to pick a preference. I set up O365 first, and G Suite hangs off Azure for auth. Email is on-prem - so no push there, but my inclination is to use O365 for that as it allows me to hybridise just like an Exchange migration.

 

It shouldn’t be a one or t’other. Use both!

[jthompson]

Hmm. Having both available for end users to arbitrarily pick between seems like it would be messy, particularly since collaboration with other users is such a big part of it. Some staff working and sharing out of O365 and then some working and sharing out of G Suite.

[TRS-80]

Google Apps (as it was) was clearly better 5 years ago, but O365 has caught up while G-Suite has remained stagnant.

[jthompson]

Well, ten years or so ago, it seemed like none of the big tech companies had really cottoned on to the fact that there was a MASSIVE market out there for tech designed with schools in mind, rather than just vanilla corporate (MS) or consumer (Apple) stuff. Every part of every country (pretty much) has schools all over it. The penny seemed to drop at Google before it dropped anywhere else and they've sold who-knows-how-many Chromebooks as a result. I think that's probably why my first thought was to Google Apps and not O365.

 

I'm sure Chromebooks have been a key part of Google's success in US schools. Microsoft may get it by now, but you wouldn't know it to look at how much work we have to do after downloading the Windows 10 Education ISO.

[free780]

I've worked for 2 FE Colleges both went with Office 365. I've looked at Gsuite but I don't think it prepares students for the work place compared to Office 365. The real killer feature from a admin perspective is that using a hybrid model always takes into consideration your existing Windows environment. Granted I wish MS would do a 365 Chromebook.

[XiJ]

Google Apps (as it was) was clearly better 5 years ago, but O365 has caught up while G-Suite has remained stagnant.

 

I’d agree with that. Internally at work we’ve recently moved from google to office 365. There are a LOT of features included (so much that sometimes it feels like the designers have just thrown everything at a page).

 

I think the big thing for the schools we look after is the ‘continuity’. Teachers know word, excel, PowerPoint and so it removes the need for a lot of re training there. Plus the gave locally installed versions most of the time.

I find e mail search is better on google - but everyone thing else I prefer Office.

[mavhc]

Teaching the same thing because that's what we did last year is a bit sad. Anyone got examples of a task that they've compared on both systems?

[mrbios]

Setup both but pushed mail into office 365, mainly because it was easier, better known product (word over docs) that was more similar to what we were using on site. We started in the live@edu days and just rolled with it. Gsuite is setup to use AzureAD for Auth, chromebooks login via office 365, SSO to office 365 when signed in etc.

 

Teams is still crap for education though, in my opinion, and needs a lot of work.

[DrCheese]

Granted I wish MS would do a 365 Chromebook.

 

https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/4/18249679/microsoft-windows-lite-dual-screen-devices-chromebooks-report

 

It keeps being rumoured, but Microsoft really need to pull their fingers out and get it shipped out.

[caffrey]

We went with GAFE, been on it over 6 years now - 6 years ago Microsoft had nothing . I had a dilemma when iPads showed up and online file storage was the main draw plus the exchange server was a bit creaky. We also have office 2016 onsite, 6 years on and people are slowly getting to like Google...

I wouldn't say Google are stagnant, just check out the Google apps blog . Never really looked at 0365 so I've no idea if it's any better and it's probably too late to change now anyway

[TechMonkey]

We were pretty agnostic for a while, having both available and Google gained a bit of traction because of one teacher. But once other teachers started looking they gravitated to O365.

 

I'd say both are a much of a muchness, each having strong points and weaknesses. You make your choice and you go for it.

 

I'd say Google Docs not doing mail merges natively is a big bummer. Although not being able to do mail merges via Onedrive or SharePoint is as much of a pain.

 

MS seem to be throwing everything they can at the wall and seeing what sticks and what the users can do with it, but not really giving much guidance. Google seems to be in a constant beta and things get dropped at will.

 

My personal feeling is that Google systems are a bit more clunky and adhoc, but that may be because I use it less often now.

 

Saying all that, if an edict from on high came down from on high to swap to Google I wouldn't be too fussed. Annoyed at the loss of work and extra learning I and the staff would have to do, but not about the system.

[3s-gtech]

Hmm. Having both available for end users to arbitrarily pick between seems like it would be messy, particularly since collaboration with other users is such a big part of it. Some staff working and sharing out of O365 and then some working and sharing out of G Suite.

 

You think it’d be better, from an administration perspective, to give them less choice? Now, I agree that the teachers should find out which suits them best, and use it in the majority, but making that choice for them seems...obtuse?

[jthompson]

You think it’d be better, from an administration perspective, to give them less choice? Now, I agree that the teachers should find out which suits them best, and use it in the majority, but making that choice for them seems...obtuse?

Maybe. I guess there's a balance to be struck between allowing individuals freedom to pick up whatever tools they prefer and having an organisation where people are all still pulling in the same direction. We mandate other things for our users. OS, for instance. Some may prefer a different choice, but would it be in the organisation's best interest to let them have competing options?

 

Since I've never done it, you may have O365 and G Suite working together better than I'm able to imagine in my head.

[3s-gtech]

OS is a bit more mandated, but Chromebooks, Macs and iPads aren’t rare in schools. I’d happily have more! I guess if you really invest in Chromebooks then the G Suite route is mandated really - I still like these post-“Windows and Office only in schools” times we live in and don’t want to narrow choices down again.

[rogerdnixon]

G Suite for Education across our Trust (26 domains). Dead easy to manage at scale, easy for users to use and effortless collaboration across the trust. We provision O365 account from G Suite - but thats just to sign into InTune managed PCs.

G Suite is constantly evolving - very rapidly. Its changed beyond recognition in the last 10 years since we started using it. So the statement that its stagnant is a total fallacy - take a look at:

https://support.google.com/a/table/7314896

https://gsuiteupdates.googleblog.com/

[Davit2005]

Well, ten years or so ago, it seemed like none of the big tech companies had really cottoned on to the fact that there was a MASSIVE market out there for tech designed with schools in mind, rather than just vanilla corporate (MS) or consumer (Apple) stuff. Every part of every country (pretty much) has schools all over it. The penny seemed to drop at Google before it dropped anywhere else and they've sold who-knows-how-many Chromebooks as a result. I think that's probably why my first thought was to Google Apps and not O365.

 

I'm sure Chromebooks have been a key part of Google's success in US schools. Microsoft may get it by now, but you wouldn't know it to look at how much work we have to do after downloading the Windows 10 Education ISO.

 

In 2010 I pushed out Live@EDU at the secondary school I worked, replacing RM Easymail.

 

Roll on a few years and then pushed out O365 at a college, I think the drive for O365 at the time was that we had exchange and it just made sense as had built many PowerShell scripts for account creation. Everything was automated via PowerShell, account creation, O365 mailbox creation and licensing.

[Ditto]

Thank you to everyone for providing a varied set of views. One thing that has struck me here is no mention of costs, either on-going licensing or hardware/support.

[ADMaster]

I’ve been told that our area is 80% Google / Chromebook.

 

I don’t recall all the reasons I first setup Google. I know our mail system at the time charged per user and Google was free. I had some questions about providing students with an email address so I researched the options. At one point I had spun up a Zimbra server.

 

In all the comparison I did back then and recently, Google comes out on top. If I recall correctly, to get the same feature set on O365 I am getting on Google, I’d need a paid plan. After the phishing thread, I believe Gmail is better at spam.

 

After a few years of Google we bought into Chromebooks, at this point we are effectively 1:1

I know there are budget models and deals, but I’ve spent an average of $700 on windows laptops and $200 on Chromebooks per device.

 

I didn’t volunteer / take the initiative to setup O365 at first because I am in partial agreement with @jthompson

If I’d been asked by higher up, I would have set it up sooner. I want to provide choice, but I also want to provide consistency. If it is a free for all I can see a lot of incompatibilities and confusion.

 

As of a year ago I went ahead and setup O365, but don’t advertise or push its use. It’s a cost savings exercise and I’m still learning. I mostly use it for Intune and looking at some Azure AD password stuff.

MS changed their license agreements. I had the basic OVS desktop bundle that gave me office windows ent / edu and I bought my server licenses. They changed the SKU to include O365 Intune etc. The cost to setup Intune and not renew the other MDM saved us money. In hind sight Intune is a bear to work with.

 

If I had to make the choice all over again today, I may go with O365 as primary. Yes it costs more than Google, but not much more than I was already paying for an MDM. Chromebooks now have AD Join so the device cost doesn’t change. Google does have better email / spam though.

Back then it was an easy win for Google, today it would be a tough call that requires more research.

[PotNoodleTech]

We use both.

 

Office365 for staff to staff communication, teams groups etc.

 

Google for Teacher to pupil, pupil to pupil, classroom use.

 

We are rolling out 1:1 chromebooks and every teaching staff member has a chromebook too (obvs staff can get their office365 on the chromebook too).

 

It's working really well to be honest!

Edited September 23, 2019 by PotNoodleTech

[hardtailstar]

I've looked at Gsuite but I don't think it prepares students for the work place compared to Office 365.

 

I disagree with this. Many companies are looking elsewhere than Microsoft.

 

Most of my friends work at companies that only use G Suite.

 

As long as you can type and work out how to use a product you can do a job.

[Brimstone]

Well, ten years or so ago, it seemed like none of the big tech companies had really cottoned on to the fact that there was a MASSIVE market out there for tech designed with schools in mind, rather than just vanilla corporate (MS) or consumer (Apple) stuff. Every part of every country (pretty much) has schools all over it. The penny seemed to drop at Google before it dropped anywhere else and they've sold who-knows-how-many Chromebooks as a result. I think that's probably why my first thought was to Google Apps and not O365.

Not wishing the hijack the thread but....Apple have been working in education long before MS or Google even really existed...

 

How Steve Jobs Brought the Apple II to the Classroom

[TechMonkey]

As someone early mentioned and I keep banging on about, skills not software. Don't teach Word, teach word processing; don't teach Windows, teach resilience and how to search. Teach the fundamentals and then teach how to find the rest. The biggest issues I hit with staff is them not knowing which software to use or what each does. Someone recently came to me and said they don't understand Excel, and when I asked what they wanted to use it for they didn't know. If someone doesn't know what a spreadsheet, any spreadsheet, can do then how can they even approach it correctly let allow use it effectively.

 

It also doesn't help when people, especially those that should know better, use hyperbole such as in thread title. Unless anyone can give me clear reasoning for the statement that I have missed, and not personal preference? Otherwise we may as well just yell Windoze sucks, Mac is rubbish, Linux Roolz!!

 

Not wishing the hijack the thread but....Apple have been working in education long before MS or Google even really existed...

 

How Steve Jobs Brought the Apple II to the Classroom

 

MS was founded in 1975, so gaining a contract in 1978 can't really count as before they were founded, especially when MS was founded a year before Apple.

Edited September 23, 2019 by TechMonkey