Axel

If you want to evaluate an Axel terminal (no drivers required - which I guess is the problem here), please contact JB at our Florida office [email protected] This is how the install should go: Axel Zero Client on Windows Multipoint Server - YouTube

Hi James We can loan you a couple M80 Axel "Zero" clients for the day if you want to show something a bit different and more cost effective than Linux / Windows based devices...? [email protected]

...the problem is - as you stack up the technologies, the costs and support implications rise - you may well end up spending more money on this solution than deploying standard W7 PCs, which we all know run multi-media perfectly, and are as future-proof as you can get....

If you're looking at USB (or USB-over-TCP/IP) terminals there is normally a limit imposed by the terminal manufacturer of 14 or 15. If you want 20 stations on a single server I think you have to use an RDP based terminal.... USB based are faster for lower numbers of terminals - but as the number increases the performance deteriorates, whereas with RDP terminals, the performance is not quite so good to start with - but remains constant up to the full quota of 20 workstations Microsoft in France did some testing on this, and commented on server spec, you can pick up the Microsoft tweet thread on link below, he does seem to have run out of steam towards the end, you may find something relevant. http://www.edugeek.net/forums/thin-client-virtual-machines/90887-microsoft-stress-testing-windows-multipoint-server-zero-clients.html From : MultiPoint Server Stations

BHMS, You are quite right, those are the options - you can pick up the USB to phono convertors for less than a pound. We developed the forbearer of the M80 before sound was an option from MS, and when sound was introduced in W2003, it was felt that having an extra USB port would be more versatile than a phono socket. Back then there was not many TC in schools, and even today most businesses are not interested in sound - so this was not seen as an issue. As the M80 has no operating system it requires much less hardware (and no embedded license) - so even the cost of M80 + new USB headset would still be competitive against comparative competing products....

I wouldn't ague that a PC will probably always give better performance than a thin client, and it is unlikely anyone in the know about thin clients would (currently) argue otherwise. There are applications where PCs are the most appropriate product... ....but in many cases full screen HD is not required, and in these situations, the inarguable benefits of thin clients (no virus implications, 5watt consumption, 5 year warranties, no backing up, no MS updates, instant booting, no local accounts/passwords etc etc) outweigh any performance concerns .... and the performance, even under vanilla RDP, is not so bad for general purpose multi-media see this : Multi-Media on RDP Thin client - YouTube

Do you have a physical W7 machine to connect the terminal to, to check it is the VM causing the problem, as opposed to W7...?

Duxbuz Is this on your Wyse or Axel terminals, if the the Axel's, press: cont alt i when connected This will pop up a window which amongst other things lists the codec the application uses (see attached). Compare on both XP and W7. The client offers the codecs it supports, the server ultimately chooses which one to use, but this may give you a clue as to what's going on. You may/will find that different applications use different codecs, so for same session, running Itunes may use different codec to Mediaplayer etc. The "cont alt i" is a realtime snapshot as to what resources are being used at that point in time. You can control which codecs the terminal offers by selecting high, medium or low quality

Duxbuz, We fired up a VDI in a box setup, and it works perfectly with the Axel M80, if you want a hand to configure yours to work in this environment please give me a call. (and yes - it can connect to RDP and VIAB at the same time so user can hot key between the two environments - making migration simple) This does provide an interesting alternative to other VIAB enabled thin clients, mainly Linux based terminals are priced about right, but don't have the full HDX stack, and Windows embedded devices do have full HDX but tend to cost as much as a PC - so negate the main benefit of thin clients The M80 supports HDX and costs less than most Linux based terminals - so hits the sweet spot in both cases. It also has a 5 year warranty which no Chinese thin-clients can match !!! [email protected]

Interesting take on proportion of UK spending. The NHS IT spend is a 10 year project.... http://www.perceptualedge.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/billion-pound-o-gram.jpg Things could be worse ! The Billion Dollar Gram

Andy You may just be unlucky with the thin client product you used - not all thin clients are alike, there are many happy users using Axel products - before you bin the whole "concept" would you like to try something different... http://www.edugeek.net/forums/thin-client-virtual-machines/22082-axel-ax3000-m70-lesson-monitor.html PM me if interested - we can send you a loan terminal for tomorrow - our are totally different from all others - no Linux or embedded Windows - simply runs RDP direct from hardware...

Does a standard W7 PC connect OK (RDP) - that should let you know if its the server or client at fault...

A quick note to all the happy Axel thin client users out there - we are looking for beta testers to test either RDP or Citrix Gateway. This function will provide the ability for working securely from home connecting to corporate/school servers, over the internet. The connection to the (BT) home router can be either Ethernet or wifi, depending on terminal (M80/M85). (A firmware upgrade will be required to include Gateway support (free))

There shouldn't be a noticeable difference in performance between XenApp and XenDesktop... With XenApp you can publish a standard Windows desktop and easily add/remove the non core apps as required ....or, if licensing costs are an issue you could publish the none core apps direct from Windows via RemoteApp (so no Citrix license), ie a combination you didn't consider could be XenDesktop and RemoteApp

For those of us involved in the thin client business this is a big story. Dell have tried unsuccessfully to launch their own thin client several times, and now, it seems, have taken a different approach to get a foothold in the thin client market. This is a very different "story" to HP buying Neoware a few years back, Neoware had essentially gone bust and HP picked them up for a song. Wyse are/were a strong company and, although the figures aren't publicised - there are reports in the press of Dell paying a billion dollars to Wyse's Taiwanese owners...

If you have Axel terminals they will by default generate their own unique network name (based on their MAC address)

The key use for RemoteFX is for VDI, connecting to virtual Windows7 machines to provide a full Aero experience It is not normally used with Terminal Services/RDS/Multipoint The fundamental difference is RemoteFX works on a "whole screen" refresh basis, whereas RDP works on an "object" refresh level. As objects are by definition smaller than the whole screen, RDP requires less server/client hardware requirements. If you want the full Windows7 experience, with the Aero transparency etc you would want to use RemoteFX and connect to a Windows7 virtual machine, not a server.... Note : for 20 clients you will have to use full ethernet connected clients - not USB or "USB over Ethernet" clients as these have a limit of 15 on Multipoint If you use RDP - you do need a minimal graphics card in the Multipoint server to enter multi-user mode - but this has no bearing on performance. I understand the graphics card used has a direct impact on the performance if using RemoteFX, but will let someone else more qualified comment on that.... [email protected]

If you follow the link on the bottom of posting below you will find details of Microsoft's testing Multipoint Server: They tested Axel, Atrust and Ncomputing - not all the results are posted yet, but no doubt will be soon... http://www.edugeek.net/forums/thin-client-virtual-machines/90887-microsoft-stress-testing-windows-multipoint-server-zero-clients.html

There is a lot of "buzz" about VDI these days, is it all hot air, or real substance ? Lets try and find out...!

It all depends on the thin-clients you use..... If all you want of the thin client is to launch "RDP" to connect to a W2008r2 server and give the users their own independant session, the video below shows a popular and easy way to acheive this Thin client setup and booting There are all kind of alternatives, involving embedded Linux/Windows, pxe booting across network, VDI etc etc but none simpler or quicker ! (The same device can be re-configured for XenApp, XenDesktop, VMware Viewer, RemoteApp etc) I'd be happy to answer any questions or introduce you to a school near you to have a chat with.....

It sounds like a "traditional" Windows terminal server will provide all you are looking for. This solution has been around for many years - is without question the most used solution in schools (due to its simplicity and lower cost). It's not as sexy as "VDI" - but much easier in every sense to build/manage. Possibly you may (very unlikely) find some applications that don't run on terminal services and may need to expand the above to manage a VDI environment (RemoteApp). Just install W2008r2 on a one physical/virtual machine, source thin clients from any of a number of manufacturers - that's it... There are countless companies selling terminal server "add-ons" (Citrix, Ericom, 2x, Kavisa, etc etc) - some better than others - but try the generic Microsoft solution first before spending more money/time. What the generic Microsoft offering will give you is the ability to log onto the server from as many terminals/PCs as the server can handle and each one will get their own unique desktop. It doesn't need to be any more complex than this....

As forum sponsorer we have supplied terminals to many schools over the last few years, various Edugeek'ers comments here: http://www.edugeek.net/forums/thin-client-virtual-machines/22082-axel-ax3000-m70-lesson-monitor.html Would be happy to talk, or offer an evaluation M80 terminal for you have a "play" with. All you would need to do would be to download W2008r2 or Windows Multipoint from Microsoft's website and the terminal would connect instantly and directly with no fuss or hassle... Axel Technical Support - M80 setup and booting - YouTube [email protected]

Of course - no paperwork needed just send me an email (from a school address) confirming address and we'll get one out to you (on a 30 day sale or return basis) [email protected]

Microsoft are doing this - see twitter feed on: http://www.edugeek.net/forums/thin-client-virtual-machines/90887-microsoft-stress-testing-windows-multipoint-server-zero-clients.html

Microsoft Education commissioned Axel to develop a specific WMS terminal, and Microsoft (France) are currently testing the Axel M80 WMS terminal (ethernet connected) and pushing results on the twitter feed as below The M80 does cost a little more than some Multipoint terminals, but have the benefits of: 1) Much less load on the server - (no "USB over Ethernet" conversion/driver such as required by HP T200 and Wyse E01/E02) - so provides linear performance as workstation numbers increase. 2) Performance not impacted by graphics card (in fact no graphic card need be installed on server). For "USB over Ethernet" products the graphics card is virtualised, so plays a significant role in performance 3) Specifically Microsoft were concerned by the lower limit of workstation numbers supported by some terminal products. Microsoft designed Multipoint to support 20 work stations, many offerings won't work with more than 15 and suffer performance issues even before reaching 15. The M80 provides the same level of performance for up to 20 connections and this is what Microsoft are testing. For those interested in this subject there is a short video showing installation and operation: Axel Zero Client on Windows Multipoint Server - YouTube Microsoft's Twitter feed can be followed on: https://twitter.com/#!/Antoine_EducMS MS also give useful information on server hardware requirements. As always if anyone wishes to trial an M80 please PM or call/email [email protected]