e_g_r

Am i right in beleiving that site managment i.e. caretakers, cleaners etc. will also be outsourced in BSF?

Cheers Chaps (thats a generic chaps by the way)

ok little bit of History here. Inherited the network from hell. Infractructure gash, servers ancient and a SMT tighter than the tightest thing you can imagine. If i said my PDC and BDC hada combined RAM of just 2.5Gb you'd p*ss yourself. I need to replace these but i need to 'justify' it. i.e. for a school with 1500 users and a max of 500 users online what spec for a PDC and BDC should i be looking at.

Some Chav had their house decked out at the end of September!!!!!! Global warming - bet you can correlate it to the number of houses in the western world decked out for christmas

Branding? I'm so extreme and way out that i'm going to have my left leg amputated.

I understand what you are saying but what if Sophos is not running on the client ? At least with both running you get a fall back on a file being checked somewhere..... Windows Server 2003 has been out now long enough for them to get their product running properly on it. I have to be careful what I say about Sophos on here though..... Good lord, I would not let a Sophos Engineer near a video recorder let alone a live server.....If it has got to a point in which a VERY LARGE software vendor is sending an engineer to a user / business / school or whatever, - it does not really send a message of trust to that particular vendor when its supposed to be a critical security app !! My opinion blah blah blah I beleive its called customer service and is one of the tools that any business be it large or small can use to guage customer satisfaction etc.. They may also tell me that i (go forbid) have made an error with my setup and that is why i am not satisfied. After all were only human and can make mistakes without realising it. I'm far more happy to receive this kind of help from a vendor who can supply it. Bet Nod can't provide that service if you were totaly stuck with their product (or many of the other vendors) Like someone said on another post its not black and white.

I've got a sophos engineer comeing in beacuse i had to download the rootkit tool and a kind pr guy phoned to see how it went. I told him we had lost confidence in the product so now their sending an engineer to site to have a good look at whats happening. On the plus side we had a brand new virus and sophos tech support were excellent. Nod32 couldn't deal with it and their telephone support isn't upto much.

Jake! Certified at not being certified

We had an external company come round recently and do a full asbestos survey. We use this when planning any work in-house and any contractors we have on site can see this if they ask, although typically they just accept our word for it that its clear (if they are working anywhere near it, we specifically tell them about it and walk them round exactly where it is). we have a survey but a professional firm will carry out air tests in the area where they work just in case the survey missed something or structural movements have dislogged some asbestos. at my last school we had ceiling tiles that were sealed but if disturbed could shed dust.

Bananas Should be streight Yeah Skiing - looks easy, read up about it but nearly got myself killed

I agree that just becasue someone is certified it dosn't mean that they are any better. Last IT training i had was for Novell 4 Contrators are only bad because in the past we have let them. I'm sure your installs are A1 and i would not dis them. My question was how sure are we that what we do is A1 and correct. I only speak through bitter experience at my current school. Something that is now being changed at no small cost (100K to be precise)

I'm sure that insurers will begin to look at this and insist that they are removed or delt with, a bit like asbestos. Another question for DIYers. what precautions do you take ref asbestos? Air tests to backup your school survey? Masks and white suits. What about MDF and fibre insulation?

If its not low smoke zero halogen and you have a fire - death by gas

How many times has price come and bitten you on the Arse? We once purchased a mobile laptop solution and were pressured into cutting costs. Result - the worst charging trolley you could imagine.

Decent tester £1500 what about the higher end ones? Or are they a waste of money. Why not spend a bit less than £1500 must give the same results? FN-GM - i'm not denying you get bodge jobs. Thts because people arn't in control. Thats why i'm talking pre install agreements, penalty clauses and independent checking. If a contrator said no to this kind of thing them run a mile.

Bear in mind that its not about faults found by the switch but about through put to the desktop. I'm not knocking DIY but rather want people to realise that if you are in control of the install and have pre install agreements and penalty clauses then a professional should be better. As someone else pointed out some of this cable has been in 15+ years so we have to live with these installs for a long time so right first time must be the mantra. Getting a good contactor is a must and like anything if you base is on price then you may fall foul.

You will always continue to try and find some small excuse as to why you should not do it, so therefore the arguement we are having is pointless, you don't want to do it and thats fine. I have the same things to do that you have to do and I still managed to do al my own installs with my team. You just don't seem to be able to answer some of my questions. Carry on and do what you think is best. I hope you are doing it right. What i don't like is saving a penny but having to spend a pound latter.

Best value for money! Thats what they did here. Buy cheap get cheap.

How would you test someones competency in cableing? Computerised? what make and model. Do you keep it calibrated and firmwared up? do you check what they are doing? The guarantee is for the whole install and is quite oftem the kind of thing that MOD and government require. Nieve? Get your work checked out by someone independent. Personaly i have to much other stuff to do without doing donkey work. My main point is if you do the pre install stuff right then the contactor will have to do the job right. What accreditation do you hold in data cabling

That then is where we go wrong. A good example here is where the cat6 links were tested inependently last year and found to be all non complient!!!! Do you know the difference in running Cat5e and Cat6? If 10 years ago we had had a 20 year guarantee then we could have had it all replaced!!!! (Cat5 not the cat6) If you don't fluke test how do you know if your cable is running as it should? The Pro's Fluke - including keeping their flukes upto date and graduated. Your post shows how nieve we as NM's and Techies can be. In the past any body thought they could install data. Prime example is electritians being sub cintracted in new builds. When employing cablers make sure they know exactly what you expect and build in penalty clauses. Check what they are doing and make sure they see you doing this. If your infrastructure isn't right then you can have all the servers and stuff you want but your end user may not be getting the full benefit.

Disease How are you testing your cables? How do you source your parts. Cheapest? or looking at specs etc.. Bit offensive saying you wouldn't employ me when you don't know me. If you had the report on the 10 years worth of cabling that i inherited it may current school it would make you think more about paying to get it done right and right first time. when you see a real proffesional do it with the twists right down to the module, the lack of compression and clean pull throughs then you might know what i am talking about. Hope you keep your cable runs away from power, water, gas and flourescent appliences. If you use basket tray i hope you also use liners as you will end up getting compression points in time if you havn't. Do you cable tie? another source of compression! do you lable your trays for data only so that in a years time an electrician won't think 'i'll run my cable along that'. Do you ensure that contractors are aware that they can't use your data runs and if so do you check this? I'm talking from bitter experience but could call you nieve. Hope your not doing the electrical work on your whiteboard installs? Or are you NIC EIC approved

Whats the point? Even if its a couple of years down the line then you can get them in to change it. With the Molex if the contractor goes bust Molex will take on board the guarantee. How much industry standard training have you had? I used to think i was pretty good until i had real professionals in to do the work.

Thats why we always make them sign a pre installation agreement that says they have to put right at their own cost anything that is done wrong.

Have you Fluke tested it? With a contactor you can specify that they have to provide results and a guarantee. We go for Molex 20 year. Do you follow all of the codes and practices for this? Years ago i would have done my own but haveing inherited what can only be described as a wireing abortion i would never do it myself again. instead i would get a professional acreditted company in, make them sign an agreement regards what they are doing, get full test results and then maybe get an independent test just in case they are cut and paste merchants. I used to do fibre but again if you get a contract signed and test results you will have a guarantee and something to fall back on.

Faggotts Gravey and Peas from the South West of England. Can't beat it