Arguments for and against ipads - need info in a hurry

[elsiegee40]

Try not to fall off your chair laughing if/when you hear "They will use Wordshark on it" @witch!

[Davit2005]

Would definately advise of using some sort of central management to tie them down etc. You want the reliability of them working and unless they are tied down suitably users will end up fiddling with things then bringing them to you when they don't work.

[SimpleSi]

The relatively small outlay for the 16 iPads

:cough: :cough: shirley sum mistook

 

Don't get me wrong - my wife's school got 16 Macs and 10 Ipads last year (at fantastic expense of course) and the ICT Co-ordinator can make them sing and he's enthused the whole school with them so I know where you are coming from - but buying a few for SEN isn't in the same league and wouldn't have the same outcome so in this case I say no.

@witch - PLEASE DON'T FEED THE TROLLS

[jdoyle]

as it's SEN, has there been any evaluation of the needs of the students on the SEN register? A one size fits all approach (all iPads, all tablets, all Netbooks or all Laptops) may not be the best route in an SEN environment where the needs of the students can vary. Have any of the parents obtained devices for the students to help them with their learning at home that might be suitable for use in school (parents might have a view that an iPad/Nintendo DS/iPod or some other device has been a huge success/fail with regards their child)?

 

Is there a clear linkage between the proposed purchase and the aims of the school?

[localzuk]

There are hundreds of apps for SEN, I've got a printed document around here somewhere with around 40-50 pages of apps, with their potential uses in different subjects etc... within an SEN establishment. Our special school is likely going to be buying a trolley full of them soon, after a successful trial with one per class.

[witch]

There are hundreds of apps for SEN, I've got a printed document around here somewhere with around 40-50 pages of apps, with their potential uses in different subjects etc... within an SEN establishment. Our special school is likely going to be buying a trolley full of them soon, after a successful trial with one per class.

 

Are you going to tie them down in some way? Network-wise, I mean, although physically may be a good idea!!

[mac_shinobi]

Think about it like this - Apple decided that Flash wasn't stable enough, so dropped support and went with HTML5.

 

There are fundamental problems with this however. HTML5 as a standard still isn't complete, so if you have a website which is fully flashed based, you're essentially asking software developers to work with an uncomplete standard. It of course costs money to re-work everything, which is why many educational based websites (for example) haven't made the change as yet.

 

Also, not all browsers support the same flavours and additional features of HTML5, so cross browser support is a headache also. Flash is cross browser supported, which is why it's still the number 1 choice.

 

We're definitely in a transition period between Flash and HTML5, very much like 32/64Bit versions of Windows, but at least you can still run most 32Bit applications on a 64Bit OS. The way to support Flash and HTML5 is to have essentially two separate versions. Until the HTML5 standard is fully complete to an official version 1 for example, many companies quite rightly will hold back.

 

Same as Wireless N, took a few years for it to become Standardized, so am hoping HTML 5 will be the same at some point, obviously not something that will happen straight away ( If at all ) ??

 

Are there other options other then Flash excluding shockwave , possibly Java ?

[AshleyBishop]

Lots of Apps available here

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AvFbfb1mWoNwdGlweWtkZkFRS1gzUDMtTUtoTEw0MkE&pli=1

 

Witch...can talk you through various options for management if you'd like to pm me can send my contact number. Really depends on current infrastructure and what else you are planning to go for.

[localzuk]

Are you going to tie them down in some way? Network-wise, I mean, although physically may be a good idea!!

 

Not sure at the moment - we've still got to discuss this with them.

[Michael]

Same as Wireless N, took a few years for it to become Standardized, so am hoping HTML 5 will be the same at some point, obviously not something that will happen straight away ( If at all ) ??

 

Are there other options other then Flash excluding shockwave , possibly Java ?

 

Not quite the same though, as you can buy dual wireless 'G' and 'N' so your older wireless devices and newer wireless devices will work at their own speeds.

 

With Flash and HTML5 it's one or the other or both with some clever coding to detect what browser you're using. It really is a bit of a mish-mash at the moment and does need standardising.

[Pete10141748]

I'm still in two minds about the iPad in education in general, let alone for a specific SEN use.

 

From what I've seen here, while the pupils love the iPad and really engage with it, they don't create anything worthwhile or learn anything of a "standard practice". The happily shoot video of each other pratting about and add effects to it, they play games on it like "Cut the Rope" and they repeatedly try and use the YouTube app on it, but what are they learning? What are they taking from it that they can apply in other ways? For the amount of effort and money it has taken to get them up & running, I don't see the payoff yet. Maybe I'm missing something, but from my POV the iPad is nowhere near as good for teaching&learning as a netbook is; but as a supplement to netbooks, they are a nice alternative form of exposing children to ICT from the "real world".

 

For an SEN use, I can see the attraction; simple interface and touchscreen, portability and a sense of "ownership" on the child's part when they are holding the device. As someone else said, I'd check on insurances & warranty, replacement schemes etc. because they are not as solid as they seem, not to mention the fact that they are ridiculously easy to 'remove' from the school without being noticed.

[Pottsey]

Thanks guys - I think we can forget the centralised bit as I think he is going for stand-alone beasts.

More please -

If you think *yes* - what makes ipads better IYHO?

If you think *no* - what would you use instead?

The apps alone make the Ipad the better choice. It’s not the SEN apps but the children’s apps like letter formation. But I would suggest they have tried and have some apps in mind before getting any tablets.

 

As a cheaper option I would suggest perhaps Ipad1’s which should run the apps fine. Perhaps Ipad2 but I see no reason to justify the cost of Ipad3’s.

[mac_shinobi]

Not quite the same though, as you can buy dual wireless 'G' and 'N' so your older wireless devices and newer wireless devices will work at their own speeds.

 

With Flash and HTML5 it's one or the other or both with some clever coding to detect what browser you're using. It really is a bit of a mish-mash at the moment and does need standardising.

 

I was reffering more to the pre N Equipment which at one point was not standardised and now is, so was more reffering to HTML 5 needing to be standardised as you stated

 

I didn't mean in regards to being able to connect to both G and or N wireless networks ( although the down side to this ) is that if you have a wireless N network and connect with a G Device then the N network slows down to G Speeds. This is besides the point though.

[Michael]

That's very true actually, initial 'N' routers/access points were 'N' only due to compatibility problems.

 

I doubt very much though we'll ever see a mix/match HTML5/Flash standard which just makes things harder for people like us trying to keep everything working.

[penfold]

I assume that there is a push for a tablet resource? If not could the money be better spent on an Ipod touch? Lots of apps are still available and they could be used in addition to existing network equipment. My other half works in a primary where they have introduced an Ipod touch for the children to use and installed educational apps which the children picked up really well. Unfortunately they also put some games on there so they could be used as a treat but ended up having to be removed as that was all they used.

 

So as for their use, it was good for being able to pass round the class but I dont think they have made much improvement in terms of the educational value they serve. But if I'm honest this is probably down to the lack of ownership & management from teaching staff to ensure they are used as they were initially intended. And this would have been true regardless of the hardware purchased. With staff who have a better understanding of IT or a willingness to learn I think they could have been used better so it will also depend on the staff in the school.

 

As someone has already suggested the question to ask is probably has a trial been done with devices to see if they can do what they are intended to do.

Edited April 18, 2012 by penfold

[witch]

Bit more info - the usage is to be for SEN and possibly PE - they had one demonstrated and it was very useful for filming the children and being able to show them immediately what they had done and how they could improve, etc.

There isnt any thought to use ipads in whole classrooms, just for a few SEN at a time.

A trial of the ipad and other tablets/netbooks/whatever (ideas, people?) is imminent so now is the time to get straight what bit of kit can do what and how it is to be configured.

[Pete10141748]

and possibly PE - ...they had one demonstrated and it was very useful for filming the children and being able to show them immediately what they had done and how they could improve...

 

Wow, an iPad makes for an expensive digital camera doesn't it? I've got a £40 Kodak that can do exactly that, it worked right out of the box, is easy to transfer the videos to a laptop or PC to use further, replacable at low cost, has no licencing issues... an iPad for videoing some PE lessons seems like overkill to me.

 

edit: apologies if that it off-topic

Edited April 18, 2012 by Pete10141748

[witch]

Wow, an iPad makes for an expensive digital camera doesn't it? I've got a £40 Kodak that can do exactly that, it worked right out of the box, is easy to transfer the videos to a laptop or PC to use further, replacable at low cost, has no licencing issues... an iPad for videoing some PE lessons seems like overkill to me.

 

edit: apologies if that it off-topic

 

But with an ipad or whatever you dont have to transfer to anything, and there isnt anything to transfer to in a sports hall anyway! The point is they can play it straight back, on the screen, immediately

[elsiegee40]

As a cheaper option I would suggest perhaps Ipad1’s which should run the apps fine. Perhaps Ipad2 but I see no reason to justify the cost of Ipad3’s.

Even Apple said that iPad 2 would be good for education after the iPad 3 launch... I don't see any justification for iPad 3.

Bit more info - the usage is to be for SEN and possibly PE - they had one demonstrated and it was very useful for filming the children and being able to show them immediately what they had done and how they could improve, etc.

There isnt any thought to use ipads in whole classrooms, just for a few SEN at a time.

A trial of the ipad and other tablets/netbooks/whatever (ideas, people?) is imminent so now is the time to get straight what bit of kit can do what and how it is to be configured.

I can see uses in PE. The school where I'm governor is using iPod touch widely in PE, with BTEC at KS4 and 5 courses, for filming, photographing and recording.

[elsiegee40]

This thread could be relevant to you as well @witch

[GrumbleDook]

If there's any information I can provide, I'll be more than happy to speak to you about it, I'm rather proud of the school's achievements.

Sounds like a case study waiting to happen ... I might inflict a few other local folk on you ;-)

[synaesthesia]

Hehe, don't rush just yet though, got enough of our own stuff to deal with!

Besides, note I didn't have a huge amount to do with it - just made sure they could do what they wanted to achieve, sourced things and got them set up. The real achievements are what the school/staff themselves did, and of course the real test of it's implementation will come only in time - will they still be being used in a year's time, or will they be consigned to the back of the cupboard with the DigiBlue cameras and Betamax tapes

[SimpleSi]

I've got a printed document around here somewhere with around 40-50 pages of apps, with their potential uses in different subjects etc... within an SEN establishment.

 

If you mean - this app looks good - oh - someone with SEN will be able to work it - it'll help them with X or Y then this is true.

 

But this is true about any practically any activity - computer based or not

 

Theres nothing special that a pad gives to SEN education apart from its usually easier to point and click rather than operate a mouse or trackball.

 

I think they could be quite useful for helping with handwriting - I myself found a lovely app that allowed you to trace over letters - looked good then teacher said - ah - we don't use that method (something to do with the way the tails curl/don't curl!!!)

 

They are just not cheap enough yet to be value for money but I fully understand that some people want to use them and are prepared to pay the premium

 

Si

[localzuk]

If you mean - this app looks good - oh - someone with SEN will be able to work it - it'll help them with X or Y then this is true.

 

No, it is by an SEN division of an education dept in Australia I believe. I'll see if I can find it.

 

But this is true about any practically any activity - computer based or not

 

Theres nothing special that a pad gives to SEN education apart from its usually easier to point and click rather than operate a mouse or trackball.

 

Which considering the number of SEN students with motor skills problems, is a major boon.

[bossman]

@witch:

 

The video capture quality of the IPad2 is not that great as we tried to use it for our PE department here and the photo quality is quite poor also, we found that using the little flick camera's which had the led screen on the back much better quality and we could plug them straight into the netbooks and run the videos on the larger screen in a much better quality, the kids can then upload straight to their work area and then do what they will with them as these are built onto the network.

 

It should also be mentioned that the teachers have to be very creative in what they teach through the IPads and to be fair there are not that many creative teachers around who know what to do with the IPads to get the best out of them, this leads to the kids getting bored with using them and just use them for disruptive purposes as has been mentioned on previous posts.