[news] Banksy's at it again!

[MK-2]

I am no bible expert, I just opened up the Old Testament and started reading and was shocked at show how bad the bible is. As far as I am aware it’s not down to interpretation it flat out says some of these things clearly. I don’t really understand the difference’s between the Testament’s. By why would someone of faith ignore half the bible? Surly you follow it all or none?

 

But the parts you read, do they say "you should kill another man" or does it say "X killed Y"? I doubt every word in the Bible is a commandment or way that you should lead your life.

I am no Bible expert either having never read it, but I'd like to think that if I did, despite the fact it describes a murder or prostitution I wouldn't be inclined to go and murder just because it referenced it. If the Bible said "Thou shalt kill anyone you like," then fair enough

[Hightower]

And that's getting away from the point anyway. My original point was that I found Bansky's comments offensive - his comments that made a sweeping statement about those that belong to a certain faith. No matter what religion you are, if any at all - it is wrong and offensive to make such a statement. That was my original point.

[Pottsey]

But the parts you read, do they say "you should kill another man" or does it say "X killed Y"? I doubt every word in the Bible is a commandment or way that you should lead your life.

I am no Bible expert either having never read it, but I'd like to think that if I did, despite the fact it describes a murder or prostitution I wouldn't be inclined to go and murder just because it referenced it. If the Bible said "Thou shalt kill anyone you like," then fair enough

It said you should kill and take slaves. “Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.”

I assume little ones it boys.

 

Even the new testament has some pretty bad bits. Wasn’t is Matthew 19:29 where Jesus says abandon home & family to follow him so you can get into haven. Or Matthew 10:24-27 where Jesus say he hasn’t came for peace but to sword and to make family’s hate each other.

Luke 14:26 Jesus says you have to hate your family; children or you cannot be his disciple.

The bible is full of stuff like that as far as I can see. That or I just have a really bad interpreted version.

[Hightower]

Even the new testament has some pretty bad bits. Wasn’t is Matthew 19:29 where Jesus says abandon home & family to follow him so you can get into haven. Or Matthew 10:24-27 where Jesus say he hasn’t came for peace but to sword and to make family’s hate each other.

Luke 14:26 Jesus says you have to hate your family; children or you cannot be his disciple.

The bible is full of stuff like that as far as I can see. That or I just have a really bad interpreted version.

 

Are you picking these out by hand or have you just Googled 'bad stuff in the bible' - honestly I don't think here is the place to be discussing the bible, but if you ever want any bible quotes from another perspective just drop me a PM.

[Pottsey]

The old testament ones I read as I was curious one day and flicked though in RE. The new testament ones I was told about by friends who are into religion studies and goggled them to check. But I agree this isn't the place to discuss the bible it always go badly.

I am not really looking for an argument so will step out now. As you say this isn't the place.

[edutech4schools]

We are an evolving species, and while we evolve so do our religions.

 

Which is why I will never believe. If God says it should be done this way, how come it can be altered by us to fit the time.

[Hightower]

The old testament ones I read as I was curious one day and flicked though in RE. The new testament ones I was told about by friends who are into religion studies and goggled them to check. But I agree this isn't the place to discuss the bible it always go badly.

I am not really looking for an argument so will step out now. As you say this isn't the place.

 

I meant it sincerely about PMing me. As has been said we have our own beliefs, but it's so easy to say 'the bible is bad, it says this' - a lot of our language has changed over the years and therefore it's easy to read the bible the wrong way. If you have any questions please PM me and I'll give you my interpretation as a Christian.

[Hightower]

Which is why I will never believe. If God says it should be done this way, how come it can be altered by us to fit the time.

 

What has altered? We still go by the same book, and although it has undergone many translations the context has not changed, just the ability to read it in a modern world? Nothing else has changed in what we follow. Yes, the church has relaxed their views on certain subjects over the years, but after all we are all fallable and can only practice something as we understand it at the time. We still follow the same Jesus Christ however, who is the Son of the same God, and whom sent the same Holy Spirit - so what has changed?

[pcstru]

Reading discussions like this always makes me thank god I'm an atheist.

[somabc]

OK who wants to lock this thread?

[Hightower]

OK who wants to lock this thread?

 

OK who wants to make this fella a mod?

[synaesthesia]

He (Banksy) is voicing an opinion, which he's allowed to do. Whether it's right or wrong is not an invitation for people to mock others, generically label entire groups of people incorrectly or start an argument on whether Religion A/B/C/X/Y/Z is right or wrong. Retain mutual respect despite differing beliefs and we shall all continue to move forwards rather than backwards.

[MK-2]

He (Banksy) is voicing an opinion, which he's allowed to do. Whether it's right or wrong is not an invitation for people to mock others, generically label entire groups of people incorrectly or start an argument on whether Religion A/B/C/X/Y/Z is right or wrong. Retain mutual respect despite differing beliefs and we shall all continue to move forwards rather than backwards.

 

I believe you may have missed the point. People here aren't labelling entire groups. If you read the article, Banksy is the one who said that Christianity is about corruption, lies and abuse.

So you are saying he is entitled to his opinion, but then saying we shouldn't label groups (which he has done). So which is it? He is either entitled to his own opinion or he shouldn't label entire groups of people

[synaesthesia]

I didn't suggest it was said, it was just an example of what could happen. It's pointless getting worked up about it.

[Chris_Cook]

You are aware the bible condones murder, mutilation, beastiality, and prostitution right?

 

Allow me

 

If your going to quote from the bible, you need to do more than repeat two verses. You totally miss the point of the author otherwise, exactly like you would if you took two sentences out of any other conversation or book. You need to understand the whole book, and the history around it.

 

For example, Ezekiel 23 is talking about two prostitutes that represent the people of Jerusalem and Samaria (verse 4 explicitly states that). God is taking his own people to task about their behaviour over many years dating back to before Moses when the Israelites were in Egypt. The last two sections of ch 23 are titled "God's Judgement on the Younger Sister", and "God's Judgement on Both Sisters" and clearly show that there is a consequence to sin. The Sisters being the prostitutes if that wasn't obvious.

 

God and the bible don't condone murder, mutilation, beastiality, or prostitution, they are very much against them. All the main characters of the bible apart from God and Jesus have big character flaws and sin in their lives. The overall message of the bible is about God defeating sin and evil, rescuing humans from their fallen state and creating a place (heaven/the new Jerusalem) where sin and evil do not exist any more.

 

Jesus would have some very blunt things to say about paedophiles, those that would allow them to continue to hold positions where they might re-offend, and those that force the victims away from the church and salvation. It wouldn't be meek or mild.

 

I'm personally offended that Banksy speaks of christianity like he did, but far more offended that the church as a whole isn't doing a lot more to root out paedophiles within the church.

Edited December 15, 2011 by Chris_Cook

[teejay]

What has happened in the Catholic Church in awful, truly awful. However, if Banksy was really concerned about abuse, rather than just having a cheap pop at Christianity, he would have made statues of an entire family with all their faces pixelated as the vast majority of sexual abuse is perpetrated by family members.

[JoeBloggs]

Which is why I will never believe. If God says it should be done this way, how come it can be altered by us to fit the time.

 

The bible wasn't written by God.

 

(I cannot prove or dis-prove this)

[featured_spectre]

The bible was written by man...and in the 4th Century there was debate turning Jesus from a Man into the Son of God (Look at Judaism (post modern scriptures by scholars in Israel), Baha'i and Islam for the references, neither of those three religions believe Jesus was the son of god, but more like a prophet like Muhammad, Abraham, Moses, Baha'u'llah (Baha'i only for the last one)). Islam, Judaism, and Baha'i all have scriptures (supposedly) told to man by god and written down verbatim. Christianity's scripture is various different events as "witnessed" by various different people.

 

The only religious texts NOT to have changed since the founding of the religion are the Torah, the Quran and the Writings of the Bab (Baha'i). The Bible has changed so many times over the years as it incorporated other faiths (such as paganism, norse religions and greek/roman religions). A prime example of this is God himself, seen to be looking old and full of wisdom, yet before christianity incorporated the greek/roman religions, there were no pictures of god or any such depictions as they were deemed to be heretical. Nowadays our image of god comes from the image of Zeus!

[Rawns]

I wonder if "The Lord of the Rings" was written back then instead of the bible, if people today would be worshipping Frodo Baggins as a saviour and claiming Sauron was the devil.

[Badzeye]

Get enough people to say its true and give it a few hundred years it could be. Its only the same way other religions have spread.

[Busybub]

Get enough people to say its true and give it a few hundred years it could be. Its only the same way other religions have spread.

 

We got any Jedi's on here?

[JoeBloggs]

Nowadays our image of god comes from the image of Zeus!

 

 

This is my image.

[localzuk]

Yes, labelling an entire group of people with one bad label is a bad thing, but at what point do we get to take a look at an entire religion and get to analyse it and its effects over time and come to a conclusion whether it has been a good thing or bad, and that the people following it are either sensible or not etc...

 

Everything I see points to it having had a net negative effect on the world, drawing in people with weak minds to follow it. That's my experience. The hypocracy, the fervour, the abuse etc...

 

So, when is it acceptable for people from the outside looking in to make their comments without being deemed offensive?

[witch]

You just answered your own question - what is offensive is the labelling of an entire group of people, not people making comments.

I don't know if religion has had a negative or positive effect on the world, all I know is that if people actually followed the tenets of their religion - after all -eg Christianity basically says "be nice to others" then things would be a lot better. AFAIC it is people doing bad things in the name of religion (not things the religion actually condones) that cause the issue.

I am an outsider looking in - I'm a pagan (veering towards techno-pagan )

[localzuk]

You just answered your own question - what is offensive is the labelling of an entire group of people, not people making comments.

I don't know if religion has had a negative or positive effect on the world, all I know is that if people actually followed the tenets of their religion - after all -eg Christianity basically says "be nice to others" then things would be a lot better. AFAIC it is people doing bad things in the name of religion (not things the religion actually condones) that cause the issue.

I am an outsider looking in - I'm a pagan (veering towards techno-pagan )

 

I don't think I did. If the end result of someone looking in on a religion is the view that the religion is corrupt, rife with abuse etc... why can't they say so? If I say 'US soldiers killed thousands of people', I am labelling an entire group but not every person within the military has killed someone.