MK-2 Posted November 28, 2011 Posted November 28, 2011 (edited) Agreed. And whoever neg-repped me - you're welcome to your opinion, i'm welcome to mine. I wouldn't worry, I too got hit for stating my opinion. As mine said, "What a great attitude - suicide is always tragic. Who the hell are you to judge it selfish!" It appears that to talk on these forums now you should be able to provide legally backed documents for any thread. I based my opinion on the situation and my personal experience, unfortunately i didn't back it up with a psychology degree and various articles i've written regarding suicide I have re-edited to include the proper comment, not just a snippet. I never said suicide isn't tragic either, but why let that get in the way of a good neg rep Edited November 28, 2011 by MK-2
Hightower Posted November 28, 2011 Posted November 28, 2011 Whether or not it is selfish, tragic, or whatever is always based on opinion. What is fact though, is that these will be a tremendous ordeal for those involved in Gary's life, and judging Gary for his decision to end things is not going to help those at this hour.
DT2 Posted November 28, 2011 Posted November 28, 2011 unfortunately i didn't back it up with a psychology degree and various articles i've written regarding suicide Tut Tut MK..... -1 This is why I generally stay away from controversial discussions and opinions. The fact I've just heard nothing else all weekend, and with absolutely no mention of his family was just too much for me. How about a tribute to his bereaved family?
MK-2 Posted November 28, 2011 Posted November 28, 2011 Tut Tut MK..... -1 This is why I generally stay away from controversial discussions and opinions. The fact I've just heard nothing else all weekend, and with absolutely no mention of his family was just too much for me. How about a tribute to his bereaved family? See I'm the opposite, I will still give my opinion, I just think the anonymouse negative rep being given is ridiculous. Why not just post in here and say "that is a bad attitude, why do you think it is selfish" rather than rep-sniping. Asking the question in here will generate a discussion on it, rather than hitting negrep and thinking "ha, that showed him"
captaincharisma Posted November 28, 2011 Posted November 28, 2011 See I'm the opposite, I will still give my opinion, I just think the anonymouse negative rep being given is ridiculous. Why not just post in here and say "that is a bad attitude, why do you think it is selfish" rather than rep-sniping. Asking the question in here will generate a discussion on it, rather than hitting negrep and thinking "ha, that showed him" I agree with that, I highly doubt anyone on here says things purposely to hurt feelings. Obviously opinions clash but if you do disagree with someone giving them negative rep with no explanation doesn't really make sense on a forum, surely it would make more sense just to argue your point?
DT2 Posted November 28, 2011 Posted November 28, 2011 I agree with that, I highly doubt anyone on here says things purposely to hurt feelings. Obviously opinions clash but if you do disagree with someone giving them negative rep with no explanation doesn't really make sense on a forum, surely it would make more sense just to argue your point? Here here. You know the good things about forums like this are often unappreciated; the variety of people, experience and knowledge. It's an open forum, you're all entitled to your opinion whatever that may be. Neg repping - pettyness. (-10 for that one)! Anyway, I digress..... 1
aerospacemango Posted November 28, 2011 Posted November 28, 2011 It is incredibly sad that Football still hasn't managed to identify players who may be prone to this (or, indeed ex-players). You only have to look at the cases of ex-QPR defender Dave Clement, Justin Fashanu, and the German goalkeeper Robert Enke to realise the depression is endemic within sport, and particularly in these cases, football. It is also very sad that the news of another British casualty in Afghanistan is buried by this story.
DT2 Posted November 28, 2011 Posted November 28, 2011 It is also very sad that the news of another British casualty in Afghanistan is buried by this story. This barely even makes the news anymore.... sad really to know that the guys protecting this country in foreign fields barely even get a mention. I guess that's just the media groups for you, they only want juicy gossip.
bodminman Posted November 28, 2011 Posted November 28, 2011 God bless you Gary Speed and sincere condolences to your family! I live with someone who suffered from depression (and still gets episodes) and it's very scarey. Uni basically sent her head west and a few years on the mental pills got her more or less back on track again. From the outside of our house nobody would have a clue that there were issues. When at parties or any gatherings she was fine, happy and very out going. At home she would sometimes spend all weekend in bed because whe couldnlt face the world and thought she was useless and ugly etc etc etc. She then got weaned off the pills by the GP and all was good for a few years until our daughter was born. Basically this took her back to square one! Same scenario of putting up a public persona but behind closed doors it was tough! Back on the pills she went and again they seemed to help her get her brain into gear again. I know she isn't as severe as other people and now that we both have more of an understanding of mental illness we now feel that we can recognise when the beast within is about to rear it's ugly head and supress the bugger. Mental illness is evil. It can be triggered with no notice and the person within that you know and love is no longer themselves for whatever the period of time that that beast has you by the short and curlys! 2
X-13 Posted November 28, 2011 Posted November 28, 2011 Back on the pills she went and again they seemed to help her get her brain into gear again. Was the cause ever dealt with? Relying on pills will just make it happen again once they're no longer being taken.
aerospacemango Posted November 28, 2011 Posted November 28, 2011 God bless you Gary Speed and sincere condolences to your family! I live with someone who suffered from depression (and still gets episodes) and it's very scarey. Uni basically sent her head west and a few years on the mental pills got her more or less back on track again. From the outside of our house nobody would have a clue that there were issues. When at parties or any gatherings she was fine, happy and very out going. At home she would sometimes spend all weekend in bed because whe couldnlt face the world and thought she was useless and ugly etc etc etc. She then got weaned off the pills by the GP and all was good for a few years until our daughter was born. Basically this took her back to square one! Same scenario of putting up a public persona but behind closed doors it was tough! Back on the pills she went and again they seemed to help her get her brain into gear again. I know she isn't as severe as other people and now that we both have more of an understanding of mental illness we now feel that we can recognise when the beast within is about to rear it's ugly head and supress the bugger. Mental illness is evil. It can be triggered with no notice and the person within that you know and love is no longer themselves for whatever the period of time that that beast has you by the short and curlys! I can totally identify with this. My ex girlfriend is bi-polar, and having gone through the darkest periods of her life, after our son was born, is now on a cocktail of tablets to keep her straight. The things that I have seen..... Depression, in whatever form it takes, is one of the most debilitating illnesses there is. I would highly recommend ANYONE who feels that they might be heading for it to speak to their Doctor. Forewarned is forearmed, and something CAN be done about it. 1
witch Posted November 28, 2011 Posted November 28, 2011 Was the cause ever dealt with? Relying on pills will just make it happen again once they're no longer being taken. Depression is not necessarily 'caused' by anything, some people's brains are hard-wired that way. Obviously you explore all avenues but ultimately being able to control it and anticipate when it is coming is the best you can do. Also, bodminman's experiences show that however 'together' poor Gary Speed appeared on TV the day before, he may well have been in bits underneath - it is amazing what humans are able to cover up. Selfish is still the wrong word - when you are trapped in the fear and pain, you can't even think of anything or anyone else, except perhaps to believe that the world/your family/your friends would be better off if you were not there. This is nonsense of course but it is how people in that state feel.
bodminman Posted November 28, 2011 Posted November 28, 2011 Depression is not necessarily 'caused' by anything, some people's brains are hard-wired that way. Obviously you explore all avenues but ultimately being able to control it and anticipate when it is coming is the best you can do. Also, bodminman's experiences show that however 'together' poor Gary Speed appeared on TV the day before, he may well have been in bits underneath - it is amazing what humans are able to cover up. Selfish is still the wrong word - when you are trapped in the fear and pain, you can't even think of anything or anyone else, except perhaps to believe that the world/your family/your friends would be better off if you were not there. This is nonsense of course but it is how people in that state feel. Agreed. The doctor said that depression can be triggered by absolutely anything and that it's just the case that some people are more likely to get it than others.
MK-2 Posted November 28, 2011 Posted November 28, 2011 Selfish is still the wrong word - when you are trapped in the fear and pain, you can't even think of anything or anyone else, except perhaps to believe that the world/your family/your friends would be better off if you were not there. This is nonsense of course but it is how people in that state feel. I respectfully disagree. It may be how some people in that state feel, but to say that none of them are selfish is just as inaccurate. I was concentrating more on the fact of where, then why anyway. For someone to say they love their kids then to put their kids in a situation where they may find their parents lifeless body hanging from the ceiling is a bit off (I'm not talking specifically about this case, just in general). But I think I'll have to agree with DT2 here for this thread, I'm a staying out after this post as I know where it will lead
LosOjos Posted November 28, 2011 Posted November 28, 2011 Depression is not necessarily 'caused' by anything, some people's brains are hard-wired that way. This fact alone should be made much more public than it is! Both myself and my partner have suffered with depression in the past and have both at some point been on medication for it. It is not a black and white "so you're down in the dumps, have a beer and get over it!" situation as some people seem to believe (not aimed at anyone here by the way!), when you are in the grips of a serious bout of depression, you really cannot see what the point is in anything. Calling suicide selfish just shows naivety in my opinion and all I can say is that I'm very happy for those of you that feel that way that you have not suffered depression yourselves. When you're in that state of mind, you utterly convince yourself that the world would be better off without you, that your family would be sad at first but ultimately better off for your absence. It is not a nice frame of mind to be trapped in! I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in football and in fact I'd never even heard of Gary Speed until seeing the news but that's irrelevant; my thoughts go out to Gary's family and friends, I hope they don't blame themselves in any way for what has happened as that would haunt them. I hope they know that they were loved by Gary and I hope that they get the proper advice from a psychologist who can explain the way he must have been feeling to get to that point. RIP. 4
elsiegee40 Posted November 28, 2011 Posted November 28, 2011 I had post natal depression after my first child. There were two certainties in my mind: 1. I was a total failure 2. I couldn't let anyone else know how I felt, because that would just prove number 1. I had to be seen to be coping and doing brilliantly no matter what. When I finally cracked (my Mum realised that all was not well and forced me to 'fess up and then get help) getting help made so much difference. Six months of prozac made me into a different person. Not high as a kite, just normal. My husband reckons now, 18 years later, that we'd have been divorced if I'd carried on the way I was. He says the difference the prozac made was apparent within a week... and he hadn't believed it would make any difference at all. At the time, he just thought it was me behaving badly and I needed to pull myself together. He's now much more depression-aware and dealing with his own mother recently felt much better able to do so. It's not something to be ashamed of. If you feel like I did, people can help. Drugs are addictive, but are strictly supervised these days and they can help; so don't reject them out of hand.
ButterflyMoon Posted November 28, 2011 Posted November 28, 2011 As a sufferer of depression I feel this families pain. Though am fine just now I know only too well it can creep in there when you least expect it and as said by some others it is the most devastating thing ever. No one will ever know what was in this guys mind what drove him to it. Sad all round and devastating for his family left behind.
aerospacemango Posted November 28, 2011 Posted November 28, 2011 There's a rumour going around about why Gary Speed may have killed himself. I'm not saying what that rumour is, but I certainly hope it isn't true... It would seem that just a little investigation is enough to quash that rumour. (Who listens to 6th formers anyway??? Sorry MK-2...that's not a dig!) It would actually seem that the Daily Star was about to "out" him. Source: the tap: Is Gary Speed's Death Suspicious? Now, whether this is true, or not, it seems more likely than the first rumour....No? 1
mwbutler Posted November 28, 2011 Posted November 28, 2011 RIP Speedy. Something must have been so wrong within his head for him to do what he did
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