LosOjos Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 A[/url]lso, something that this makes me wonder - would this sort of thing have happened if cars all had automatic braking systems (ie. that use radar etc...)? Is it the VW's that have this fitted as standard now? I'm sure I saw on the TV advert in the small print that the system only operates at speeds under 30MPH, so in this case they wouldn't have been any use at all... It is interesting though where that is going, even if the car senses an emergency stop is required and applies the brakes half a second quicker than you can react, it is a potential life saver... Saw this a while ago too and found it very interesting: Road train technology can drive your car for you - tech - 18 January 2011 - New Scientist
Pyroman Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 Is it the VW's that have this fitted as standard now? I'm sure I saw on the TV advert in the small print that the system only operates at speeds under 30MPH, so in this case they wouldn't have been any use at all... It is interesting though where that is going, even if the car senses an emergency stop is required and applies the brakes half a second quicker than you can react, it is a potential life saver... Saw this a while ago too and found it very interesting: Road train technology can drive your car for you - tech - 18 January 2011 - New Scientist Ford focus i believe and it's 19MPH 1
Guest Guest Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 (edited) A[/url]lso, something that this makes me wonder - would this sort of thing have happened if cars all had automatic braking systems (ie. that use radar etc...)? As said, jack knife lorries probably wouldn't work. In fact any obstruction coming in perpendicular probably couldn't be adjusted for quick enough, and even if it was it would rely on each car behind having equal or better brakes and tyres than the car in front. Hope that makes sense. Example. Car A is doing 50 in lane 1, you are doing 70 in lane 2, car A makes a sharp overtaking manoeuvre into your lane putting them well within your braking distance, your system slams on but it will not be good enough, and even if it is the car behind you has to be able to brake equally or better than you did. Then the car behind them has to be able to brake equally or harder than that car... Also, and possibly why it is only applied at under 19mph (as per above post), if the system slams on your brakes at high speeds without accounting for road conditions you could easily spin out. Whether this would be better or worse would depend on the situation and probably mostly luck. Edited November 7, 2011 by Guest
Pyroman Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 (edited) Ford Focus With Active City Stop - YouTube and check out stanford and google's autonomous cars also @localzuk Interesting article, like it! Edited November 7, 2011 by Pyroman
creese Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 We are only human. All it takes is one driver to be distracted buy a flash or bang and the a domino effect comes into play. Accidents happen, no matter what safeguards are put into place.
Guest Guest Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 Ford Focus With Active City Stop - YouTube and check out stanford and google's autonomous cars A video saying "look at our car, you don't even have to pay attention when you are driving in traffic" - great. Is it just me who has issues with all these new "toys" which mean you don't have to pay attention to what you are doing? Like that other one "missed that road sign? Well your car didn't". You shouldn't be f'in missing road signs! Or "Can't park? Well this car parks for you". No, how about you learn to drive properly, including parking, before you get behind the wheel of a potential killing machine! And breath
Pyroman Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 A video saying "look at our car, you don't even have to pay attention when you are driving in traffic" - great. Is it just me who has issues with all these new "toys" which mean you don't have to pay attention to what you are doing? Like that other one "missed that road sign? Well your car didn't". You shouldn't be f'in missing road signs! Or "Can't park? Well this car parks for you". No, how about you learn to drive properly, including parking, before you get behind the wheel of a potential killing machine! And breath They're useful for preventing accidents and could react far quicker than you can, but like you said people should be looking where they're going
MK-2 Posted November 7, 2011 Author Posted November 7, 2011 A video saying "look at our car, you don't even have to pay attention when you are driving in traffic" - great. Is it just me who has issues with all these new "toys" which mean you don't have to pay attention to what you are doing? Like that other one "missed that road sign? Well your car didn't". You shouldn't be f'in missing road signs! Or "Can't park? Well this car parks for you". No, how about you learn to drive properly, including parking, before you get behind the wheel of a potential killing machine! And breath That is a separate issue but one I totally agree with. The drivers who assume that because they paid 80k for their car and its ceramic brakes they can take advantage by speeding more and leaving less braking distance.....just because your 80k car can stop in half the time a normal car can doesn't mean the car behind you can stop in that time too. putting too much reliance on the system and not enough on user interaction will lead to more lapses (i only listen to sat nav, i dont read the road signs etc)
LosOjos Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 A video saying "look at our car, you don't even have to pay attention when you are driving in traffic" - great. Is it just me who has issues with all these new "toys" which mean you don't have to pay attention to what you are doing? Like that other one "missed that road sign? Well your car didn't". You shouldn't be f'in missing road signs! Or "Can't park? Well this car parks for you". No, how about you learn to drive properly, including parking, before you get behind the wheel of a potential killing machine! And breath Agreed, except for the automatic breaking - the point is a machine can react much quicker than you can, but you still need to react!
Guest Guest Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 They're useful for preventing accidents and could react far quicker than you can, but like you said people should be looking where they're going I think the issue is not the system buts its advertised use, and the inevitable result that people will rely on them and pay even less attention to the road. I haven't got a problem with something which saves my life as a back up to my own ability but something which parks my car for me!... What about when the system breaks, which is will at some point as cars are left out in the rain, snow, salted roads, dodgy mechanics, etc. And what happens when you have learned to rely on the system which saves your life but that pothole you drove over 5 minutes ago has knocked it out of action?
teejay Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 Still say the Monster Raving Loony Party had the best road safety policy - all cars to be fitted with a spike in the middle of the steering wheel.
Pyroman Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 I think the issue is not the system buts its advertised use, and the inevitable result that people will rely on them and pay even less attention to the road. I haven't got a problem with something which saves my life as a back up to my own ability but something which parks my car for me!... What about when the system breaks, which is will at some point as cars are left out in the rain, snow, salted roads, dodgy mechanics, etc. And what happens when you have learned to rely on the system which saves your life but that pothole you drove over 5 minutes ago has knocked it out of action? In which case i refer you to @LosOjos Agreed, except for the automatic breaking - the point is a machine can react much quicker than you can, but you still need to react!
localzuk Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 We are only human. This was kinda my point earlier about the automatic braking systems... If all cars were computerised and automatic, rather than controlled by a bag of meat, would these sort of accidents happen?
DT2 Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 This was kinda my point earlier about the automatic braking systems... If all cars were computerised and automatic, rather than controlled by a bag of meat, would these sort of accidents happen? Yep, because any system is only as good as the person who programmed it, and where there are humans, there is error....
creese Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 This was kinda my point earlier about the automatic braking systems... If all cars were computerised and automatic, rather than controlled by a bag of meat, would these sort of accidents happen? No, another type would happen. That's life.
teejay Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 This was kinda my point earlier about the automatic braking systems... If all cars were computerised and automatic, rather than controlled by a bag of meat, would these sort of accidents happen? Possibly with this one, yes, because by the looks of it there was a very dramatic change in conditions, you can't break the laws of physics no matter how clever the computer.
localzuk Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 Possibly with this one, yes, because by the looks of it there was a very dramatic change in conditions, you can't break the laws of physics no matter how clever the computer. But smoke wouldn't be of any interest to a computer... It isn't seeing as we see.
teejay Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 But smoke wouldn't be of any interest to a computer... It isn't seeing as we see. It's more braking ability and change of direction I was meaning, no the smoke.
woodham Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 Still say the Monster Raving Loony Party had the best road safety policy - all cars to be fitted with a spike in the middle of the steering wheel. This is one policy that i actually agree with .
localzuk Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 It's more braking ability and change of direction I was meaning, no the smoke. Still not getting it. What would the car be braking for? Not to mention, some systems like those I talk about being developed 'talk' to each other, so basically they don't need a braking distance - the vehicle in front broadcasts 'i've stopped in the middle lane, at GPS co-ordinates X,Y,Z' and other cars know that...
creese Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 From the reports I've seen, anti Jack-knife devices would have helped, but in some cases it seems the jack-knifed lorries helped save some people.
glennda Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 (edited) I'm wondering if somebody put something like tyres into the bonfire and they didn't notice. I've seen this before and IMHO you would have no hope in hell in seeing anything through the smoke that kicks off. But as mentioned above - the system is only as good as the person who programmed it. For example see here Edited November 7, 2011 by glennda
localzuk Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 But as mentioned above - the system is only as good as the person who programmed it. For example see here Well, yeah, you have to turn it on...
creese Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 I'm wondering if somebody put something like tyres into the bonfire and they didn't notice. I've seen this before and IMHO you would have no hope in hell in seeing anything through the smoke that kicks off. Any smoke mixed with fog would do. After all that is what Smog is. One local teacher said it was "like driving through emulsion paint". I think the shock of hitting that would delay any reaction and braking.
Guest Guest Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 Still not getting it. What would the car be braking for? Not to mention, some systems like those I talk about being developed 'talk' to each other, so basically they don't need a braking distance - the vehicle in front broadcasts 'i've stopped in the middle lane, at GPS co-ordinates X,Y,Z' and other cars know that... IMO we're still a long way off that. Hell even the basic reversing sensors are worse than useless. I drive my mum and dads cars quire regular and they both have these sensors which IMO do more harm than good. They go off for no reason whatsoever, and then don't go off when there is actually something there. If I put any faith in them I'd have crashed into all sorts. These auto parking doodars look pretty pointless too.I'm yet to see one in action but all the adverts for them show a small hatchback being auto parked into a space which you could fit a bus in. One day yes, but not quite yet.
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