Windows 8....urgh

[Jamo]

I've been using Windows 8 at home for a while. I still don't 'get' the 'metro' stuff but everything else is fine. However, I am now looking at Linux with much more seriousness. Mint is now installed on both my laptop and desktop. I've started programming in Python instead of C# also. Steam for Linux will be the final nail for me really! I already have a pile of games through Humble Indie Bundles which have Linux versions, Minecraft is linux friendly and plenty of Windows games can be brow beaten into working with Wine.

 

The only other use is as a media centre and everyone knows that MythTV does that job well!

 

I would really be looking into Linux if it worked with my soundcard bought a Moto 828MKII a long time ago when I did audio production, Motu are really against Linux so will never produce a compatible driver

 

Will be interesting to see if Valve do Steam for linux or just stick to their 'console' idea. I hope the linux steam games do go well, it would really push me away from Windows for home use, same with the Media center though, I use it a LOT, havent used the linux variants yet. Got WMC recording the Mentalist. Can't be doing with missing that!

[localzuk]

I would really be looking into Linux if it worked with my soundcard bought a Moto 828MKII a long time ago when I did audio production, Motu are really against Linux so will never produce a compatible driver

 

Will be interesting to see if Valve do Steam for linux or just stick to their 'console' idea. I hope the linux steam games do go well, it would really push me away from Windows for home use, same with the Media center though, I use it a LOT, havent used the linux variants yet. Got WMC recording the Mentalist. Can't be doing with missing that!

 

Steam for Linux is already in existence - the closed beta has been going on for a few months, and the open beta should be happening some time this week. They've got about 80,000 people using it at the moment.

 

Their plan, from what I've read is that the console will be one option 'pre-made' or for those who are more happy doing things themselves, the client will be available as well.

 

WMC is, to put it bluntly, terrible when you compare it to the other options on the market. MediaPortal is amazing in comparison, as is MythTV.

 

Also, from what I'm reading, that sound card should work fine with FFADO, and have done since about 2009 when v2 rc1 was released.

[Jamo]

Steam for Linux is already in existence - the closed beta has been going on for a few months, and the open beta should be happening some time this week. They've got about 80,000 people using it at the moment.

 

Their plan, from what I've read is that the console will be one option 'pre-made' or for those who are more happy doing things themselves, the client will be available as well.

 

WMC is, to put it bluntly, terrible when you compare it to the other options on the market. MediaPortal is amazing in comparison, as is MythTV.

 

Also, from what I'm reading, that sound card should work fine with FFADO, and have done since about 2009 when v2 rc1 was released.

 

 

FFADO is SO difficult to set up though, I really can't be bothered with things breaking after an OS update either, if it doesn't work well in stock Ubuntu or Mint then I usually didn't bother.

 

Oooo I didn't realise it was all go with Steam for Linux! I'll check out that MediaPortal as well, gonna have to make some more time, got a baby on the way in -4 days!!! (overdue! )

[rich_tech]

I actually have it installed on my home PC again and am having a better experience this time, I am apparently a sucker for punishment (lol) I am warming to it, I have a massive issue at the moment in in that I need to have the on-board VGA enabled in the BIOS for it to boot on my Gigabyte motherboard, because it doesnt seem to recognise my GTS450 on its own if the onboard vga is turned off, so I have to disable screens and the card in windows, this time around I have not installed any other drivers (Windows itself downloaded the latest nvidia one, which seems stable).

 

Other than that, its working well so far, takes a bit of getting used to the start menu change though, but I am persevering, acid test is going to be when the mrs has a go (showed her last night, but she needs to play for herself with it and get use to it)... wish me luck ....

[sparkeh]

WMC is, to put it bluntly, terrible when you compare it to the other options on the market. MediaPortal is amazing in comparison, as is MythTV.

Interesting, my experience is the exact opposite. I really persevered with MP, it was a pain to set up and maintain whereas Media Centre just worked and has continued to work with zero issues.

[LeMarchand]

Interesting, my experience is the exact opposite. I really persevered with MP, it was a pain to set up and maintain whereas Media Centre just worked and has continued to work with zero issues.

 

Have to agree with this. I tried all sorts of Media applications and (although not as pretty as others), WMC suited my pre-existing file/folder structure the best - possibly because the folder structure was set up way before I considered that sort of software. I'd love something that pulls metadata, but the applications I tried just didn't do it successfully.

[SYNACK]

Have to agree with this. I tried all sorts of Media applications and (although not as pretty as others), WMC suited my pre-existing file/folder structure the best - possibly because the folder structure was set up way before I considered that sort of software. I'd love something that pulls metadata, but the applications I tried just didn't do it successfully.

 

Yeap, I use media center as it does just its job. The one issue I have with it is its lack of good support for MKV, other than that it handles terabytes of media over stacks of drives easily.

[LeMarchand]

Yeap, I use media center as it does just its job. The one issue I have with it is its lack of good support for MKV, other than that it handles terabytes of media over stacks of drives easily.

 

I think The Shark Codec pack should sort that out. (None of my stuff in that format, so wouldn't swear to it). Depends how you feel about codec packs, of course.

[CyberNerd]

 

Data from Net Applications shows that Windows 8 is less popular than Windows Vista, the operating system that proved unpopular with the enthusiast audience.

Windows 8 usage uptake has slipped behind Vista’s in the same point in its release. Windows 8 online usage share is around 1.6% of all Windows PC’s which is less than the 2.2% share that Windows Vista commanded at the same two month mark after release.

Net Applications monitor operating system usage by recording OS version for around 40,000 sites it monitors for clients.

The slowdown for Windows 8 adoption is a bad sign for Microsoft who experienced great success with the release of Windows 7.

Data was measured up to the 22nd of December, so there is still time by the end of the month for Windows 8 to claim a higher percentage of the user base.

This data reaffirms previous statistics posted by organisations such as the NPD group. They said in the four weeks surrounding Windows 8 Oct 26 debut that 21% fewer PCs were sold to U.S. consumers than during the same period in 2011.

The New York Times have also said that U.S. consumer sales of Windows machines from late October through to the first week of December are down 13% compared to the same period a year previous.

Kitguru says: Our own polls show that the majority of the enthusiast audience are sticking with Windows 7.

Windows 8 proving less popular than Vista | KitGuru

[Arthur]

^ Windows 8 is already more popular than Linux.

 

Acer president defends Windows 8, says consumers just need time to get used to it « BGR

 

Windows 8 has taken potshots from MIT professors and drunk people alike, but at least one Microsoft (MSFT) OEM thinks such criticism is largely overblown. In an interview with Digitimes, Acer (2353) president Jim Wong said that Windows 8 is actually a very good operating system that consumers will adapt to it given enough time.

 

“Windows 8 is a major milestone for 2012, but it is also a new system that consumers must learn and the learning process will prevent the operating system from taking off quickly,” Wong told Digitimes. “However, many of the concerns and criticisms concerning Windows 8 have been rather unfair.”

 

In particular, Wong praised Microsoft for taking risks and being boldly innovative with its new operating system, which he said smartly integrates touchscreen capabilities with traditional PC functionality. Wong also pointed to Acer internal research showing “that a consumer, after controlling a touchscreen product for more than 20 minutes, would want to use his or her fingers to touch any display he or she sees.”

 

All of this leads Wong to believe that “touchscreen control is an irreversible trend” that “will be a strong selling point” despite needing "more time to take off."

 

Dell CEO: "The interest in Windows 8 is quite high" < Neowin

 

We have been getting mixed signals about sales of Windows 8 PCs, but the head of one of the world's biggest PC makers claims that Microsoft's latest OS is doing pretty well.

 

Michael Dell, the founder and CEO of Dell, spoke today as part of the company's annual Dell World conference in Austin, Texas. Bloomberg reports that, according to Dell, "The interest in Windows 8 is quite high, even among commercial customers ...". Dell has released a number of PCs, laptops and convertibles that were made specifically for Windows 8, such as the XPS 12 notebook, shown above. However, Dell did not give any specifics on its own Windows 8 PC sales.

 

As far as the overall PC market, which has seen better days, Dell seems confident that the industry will stay strong, saying, "PCs are still how business gets done." In an interview earlier today on the CNBC cable TV channel, Dell also predicted that Windows 8 would keep growing in the months to come. He stated: "With Windows 8 we are quite excited about the future of the PC. There are billion and a half PCs out there, and we believe there’s an upgrade cycle coming.”

 

Microsoft has already said that the pace of Windows 8 PC upgrades are outdoing that set for Windows 7 so far, but has given no specific upgrade sales numbers.

[CyberNerd]

^ Windows 8 is already more popular than Linux. :

 

Android IS Linux. You need to add the android/linux figures together.

 

I'd be quite surprised if the dell and Acer CEOs collectively said that they were selling crap and invoking the Ratner effect.

[rich_tech]

I have had it installed for fortnight now, it has some silly issues where M$ has failed imo, installation being one in that it requires the enabling of my onboard graphics card to actually boot up the geforce one I have installed here, to then disable it in windows and configure around the screens when its installed.

 

The start menu change to begin with was horrific and tiresome, but now a month in, I am finding it no different really, I am mainly in the desktop on it for the majority of the time, I like logging onto the machine by pin here and there are a lot of features I like in 8 - auto mounting of ISO/dmg files I like, inbuilt hyper-v is good as well, bitlocker being a normal part of the pro version.

 

Its different but works well after the initial changes, but it is very frustrating compared to what was the norm from 95 to windows 7 with the start menu when you first use it.

[sted]

Android IS Linux. You need to add the android/linux figures together.

 

Depending how you define linux so is osx kindles routers and probably quite a few set top boxes

[Arthur]

Android IS Linux.

 

Although Android is built on top of the Linux kernel, the platform has very little in common with the conventional desktop Linux stack. In fact, during a presentation at the Google IO conference, Google engineer Patrick Brady stated unambiguously that Android is not Linux.

 

http://i.imgur.com/1et1T.png

 

http://i.imgur.com/LPcy1.png

[CyberNerd]

Depending how you define linux so is osx kindles routers and probably quite a few set top boxes

 

All but the osx which is Unix. But yes huge number of systems run a Linux kernel. Windows has a majority of desktop PCs but is in a minority when it comes to computing devices.

 

With regards to the usability issues and following a question I posted here on edugeek where the feedback was to stick to win7 , I discussed these issues with our senior leadership team at the end of the last term. I provided slt a couple of sample systems and detailed the issues. I gave the SLT a couple of basic things to do eg shut the machine down, launch sims, get to their H drive etc.

We were told - in no uncertain terms - that were not to deploy win8 because there will be too many staff training issues. We devised a 5 yr plan based on win7 with some Linux PCs.

Edited January 1, 2013 by CyberNerd

[CyberNerd]

 

 

 

 

Sort of like saying windows 7 is not windows - although it shares parts of the same kernel as windows server it doesn't include many of the utilities....

[Arthur]

although it shares parts of the same kernel as windows server it doesn't include many of the utilities....

Almost every application that runs on Windows 7/8 will work on Windows Server 2008 R2/2012 and the core operating system files are identical too (not just the kernel).

 

Although there are several client and server retail packages of the Windows operating system, they share a common set of core system files, including the kernel image, Ntoskrnl.exe (and the PAE version, Ntkrnlpa.exe); the HAL libraries; the device drivers; and the base system utilities and DLLs. These files are identical for all editions of Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2. (Source, p42)

[CyberNerd]

Almost every application that runs on Windows 7/8 will work on Windows Server 2008 R2/2012 and the core operating system files are identical too (not just the kernel).

 

well half the core operating system files, utilities and gui's on redhat are the same on Solaris, Ubuntu, BSD, HP-UX, AIX and OSX but they are not the same.

Linux is a kernel - nothing more, nothing less. Saying Android 'isn't linux' is just stupid.

[Arthur]

Saying Android 'isn't linux' is just stupid.

You had better tell Google that (and Richard Stallman).

 

Android is very different from the GNU/Linux operating system because it contains very little of GNU. Indeed, just about the only component in common between Android and GNU/Linux is Linux, the kernel. People who erroneously think "Linux" refers to the entire GNU/Linux combination get tied in knots by these facts, and make paradoxical statements such as "Android contains Linux, but it isn't Linux". If we avoid starting from the confusion, the situation is simple: Android contains Linux, but not GNU; thus, Android and GNU/Linux are mostly different. (Source)

[CyberNerd]

You had better tell Google that (and Richard Stallman).

 

Now you're comparing GNU tools to android....

[Arthur]

What you you think to this @CyberNerd?

 

The latest numbers indicate that Windows 8 isn't boosting the weak PC notebook market, causing some manufacturers to blame Microsoft for poor sales. But Paul Thurrott, long time Microsoft enthusiast and founder of SuperSite for Windows, argues that Windows 8 isn't dragging down manufacturers — it's the other way around. "Many of [Microsoft's] 20 million Windows 7 licenses each month," Thurrott writes, "went to machines that are basically throwaway, plastic crap." Blaming netbooks particularly, he says that cheap notebook sales conditioned customers to "expect to pay next to nothing" for Windows machines, a strategy that backfired when Microsoft started optimizing Windows 8 for more expensive touch-based displays. His sentiment echoes that of NPD, which concluded in a private report that netbooks did "an incalculable amount of damage" to the PC market.

 

We've written before about the potential of touch displays, as well as the problems they pose for current-gen hardware. Thurrott's suggestions for solving the touchscreen conundrum are largely cost-based: prices, he says, need to come down enough to occupy a place between cheap Android tablets and higher-priced iPads. For that to happen, though, manufacturers would have to shave several hundred dollars off the prices of touch-enabled machines, shifting focus from high-specced ultrabooks to cheaper notebooks and ARM devices. (Source)

[CyberNerd]

I had thought that manufacturers had stopped making netbooks now and that their sales had plummeted. (except the chromebooks of course).

I think the perennial problem for MS is that most of the PC's that are sold are "throwaway plastic crap" and it gives users a really poor view of Microsofts products. Moreover, as soon as a PC gets slow they need to get a new computer as most people don't know you can change an operating system (or even what an operating system is).It gives MS a really bad name and people look at alternatives like chromebooks and apple.

Ultimately I'm sure there are loads of reasons Win8 has bombed.It'll probably pick up eventually; by SP1.

[jinnantonnixx]

That's one theory.

 

Another says that poor PC/laptop/netbook sales are not the fault of the hardware or Windows 8. Rather, the PC per se is not a necessity for the tasks that people do. Buyers are realising this and buying tablets.

 

As an aside, my cousin runs her entire fashion business from her 3G ipad. Blog updates, photos, email, facebook, appointments, .... everything done on a tablet that fits in her bag. I'm not saying she's typical, but that seems to be the way the wind is blowing.

Edited January 6, 2013 by jinnantonnixx

[flyinghaggis]

Another says that poor PC/laptop/netbook sales are not the fault of the hardware or Windows 8. Rather, the PC per se is not a necessity for the tasks that people do. Buyers are realising this and buying tablets.

 

As an aside, my cousin runs her entire fashion business from her 3G ipad. Blog updates, photos, email, facebook, appointments, .... everything done on a tablet that fits in her bag. I'm not saying she's typical, but that seems to be the way the wind is blowing.

 

This is the biggest problem MS is facing from a Windows hardware point of view IMO. 90% of buyers can carry out virtually all of the tasks (Web Surfing, Email, etc.) they need to on an iPad or equivalent tablet which is starting to make full Windows laptops seem like overkill. Price is also a key issue as consumers can now buy low to mid range Android tablets for £100-200 and high end 'premium' (at least as far as they're concerned) tablets for £300-400. You can barely buy a new Windows8 laptop for that and if you do it's likely to be one of the slow, cheap and nasty "throwaway plastic crap" models mentioned in the article that nobody really wants!

 

It's not hard to see how in that environment MS and the other OEMs are struggling to sell Windows8 tablets and laptops for £500+ when the simple reality is that most people aren't willing to spend that kind of money any more. One of my friends asked me which laptop they should buy to replace their old WindowsXP one and it's reached the point where I'd actually recommend most people buy an iPad rather than a Windows device unless they have a specific need for it!

[zag]

I still think its idiotic intel are pushing ultrabooks that cost a thousand quid.

 

We can buy acer timelinex's for 400 quid and put a 60gb SSD in them for basically the same result.

 

And as for touchscreens on laptops, I mean come on??? pointless and a massive battery drain.