Windows 8....urgh

[tmcd35]

In 6 months time it won't just be the shills on this forum extolling the virtues of window 8, if your a MS shop then you have to go this way- like it or not.

 

Interesting sentiment and as a "MS shop" I couldn't disagree more. Windows 7 mainstream support ends in 2015, extended support in 2020. To my mind I can stick with 7 if nothing better comes along until 2020, just like we stuck with XP until last year. We are already exploring alternative technologies, namely tablets, that are likely to move us a way from the desktop paradigm in that time scale. And at the moment we are looking at Apple. I'd say Android would be our second choice. I can't see any scenario were we have to go with Windows 8, and unless Windows 9 correct the corporate use issue with Windows 8 then this is likely the death nail for Windows.

[CyberNerd]

Interesting sentiment and as a "MS shop" I couldn't disagree more. Windows 7 mainstream support ends in 2015, extended support in 2020. To my mind I can stick with 7 if nothing better comes along until 2020, just like we stuck with XP until last year. We are already exploring alternative technologies, namely tablets, that are likely to move us a way from the desktop paradigm in that time scale. And at the moment we are looking at Apple. I'd say Android would be our second choice. I can't see any scenario were we have to go with Windows 8, and unless Windows 9 correct the corporate use issue with Windows 8 then this is likely the death nail for Windows.

 

From what you say, then your not entirely a MS shop because your actively looking for alternatives!

[SYNACK]

Great stuff... Now we just need businesses and schools managed by 3 year olds.

 

Ummmmmmmmm, you mean we don't now

[tmcd35]

From what you say, then your not entirely a MS shop because your actively looking for alternatives!

 

Lol! At this point in time (apart from 10 test iPads - solely for staff use) we are entirely an MS shop. Being an MS shop should never blinker your vision to examining suitable alternatives. Just because we currently use 100% (alright 99.9%) Windows, it doesn't follow that we should always remain 100% Windows from now to the end of time.

 

Also, re-reading my last post you can clearly see a scenario where we remain 100% Windows at least until 2020 without ever needing to install Windows 8 anywhere (or 9 if it came to that).

[CyberNerd]

Also, re-reading my last post you can clearly see a scenario where we remain 100% Windows at least until 2020 without ever needing to install Windows 8 anywhere (or 9 if it came to that).

 

have you seen this?

http://www.edugeek.net/forums/news/103355-microsoft-doesnt-have-any-plans-second-windows-7-service-pack.html

[gmonks]

have you seen this?

http://www.edugeek.net/forums/news/103355-microsoft-doesnt-have-any-plans-second-windows-7-service-pack.html

 

That's crazy.

[ZeroHour]

have you seen this?

http://www.edugeek.net/forums/news/103355-microsoft-doesnt-have-any-plans-second-windows-7-service-pack.html

 

Microsoft (at least with Windows 8) have changed from doing traditional service packs to smaller, more frequent service releases as they call them.

I wonder if Windows 7 will be the same.

[Arthur]

Microsoft CEO says Windows 8 demand outpaces Windows 7

 

Microsoft Corp Chief Executive Steve Ballmer said on Monday demand for the company's new Windows 8 operating system, released to the public on Friday, was running at a higher rate than its last release, Windows 7.

 

"We're seeing preliminary demand well above where we were with Windows 7, which is gratifying," Ballmer said at an event launching new Windows phones.

 

Windows 7 is the best-selling version of Windows so far, selling more than 670 million licenses in three years since release in 2009.

 

"Over the weekend we saw an incredible response around the globe to Windows 8 and the Microsoft Surface," said Ballmer, referring to Microsoft's first own-brand tablet, designed to challenge Apple Inc's iPad. He did not give out any sales figures.

 

On Friday, there were moderate lines at Microsoft's 60 or so stores across the United States for the Surface.

[safina]

Windows 8 looks like android version.

[pcunite]

Why they did not just make it so you could force desktop mode an forget about Metro? Sheesh ...

[zag]

Good article here:

 

Windows 8 Sales Well Below Projections, Plenty of Blame to Go Around

 

http://winsupersite.com/windows-8/windows-8-sales-well-below-projections-plenty-blame-go-around

 

Love this quote

 

It’s a floor wax. No, it’s a dessert topping. Microsoft’s new whatever-the-F-it-is operating system is a confusing, Frankenstein’s monster mix of old and new that hides a great desktop upgrade under a crazy Metro front-end.

Edited November 19, 2012 by zag

[flyinghaggis]

Good article here:

 

Windows 8 Sales Well Below Projections, Plenty of Blame to Go Around

 

http://winsupersite.com/windows-8/windows-8-sales-well-below-projections-plenty-blame-go-around

 

Good artcle that. You know things are bad when Paul Thurrot's complaining about Microsoft Tech!

 

My take on Windows 8's sales woes is mainly down to the lack of decent tablet hardware being available and MS 'muddying the waters' with the branch out into WindowsRT. Even if I wanted to buy a Windows8 tablet there's literally nothing out there just now I'd be interested in. Most of the current kit is just Windows7 tech with poor quality low-res touch screens bolted on and extortionate price tags.

 

As the article says I think most people are playing the waiting game to see what happens when Intel release Clovertrail/Haswell in the hope we finally get some decent looking hardware. If someone came to me just now and asked which Windows8 device to buy I'd tell them to wait which is likely Microsoft's biggest probelm!

[tmcd35]

I think the sales woes were always going to happen. I mean, this time there seems to be no clear strategy on who it is aimed for. Even at £30 an upgrade I cant see many home customers wanting to rush out and upgrade their Win7 machines as they might have done with XP. I think business/edu types are put off by the interface, that and they have just switched from XP to 7, Win 9 is likely to be next on their raider. OEMs probably cant see how to integrate it with existing lines without touchscreens and until there's an outcry in demand for touchscreen PC's I can't see them being in a rush to push a switch over. That just leaves tables, a market saturated and dominated by Apple and Google.

 

I see what MS are trying to do with their "touch first" policy, but really they have quiet predictably shot themselves in the foot with it. Lets hope they come to their senses for Win9 (or touchscreen monitors become common place).

[gshaw]

Agree with the poor quality of kit from OEMs thus far, there's nothing out there apart from the Surface that looks anywhere near up to the quality of the competition. Lenovo maybe at a push but haven't really seen nor heard much of it. Can understand MS being frustrated there tbh. Pricing is also really bad as it stands, £700-800 for a decent spec tablet running full Win8 is too much and smacks of profiteering imo.

 

As noted in that article the delay in launching the Surface Pro is crazy, as is the two different product lines with different feature sets.

 

- you can have thin & light, good battery life and OK pricing but no good for businesses

 

or

 

- you can have more power and desktop mode, but as a result heavier and a lot more expensive but you can manage it with standard enterprise tools

 

The word or is what's wrong, said it before and I'll say it again, the RT should be as manageable as the Pro just with the caveat of Metro-only apps. Ask business users if they'd take that compromise to replace iPads (bearing in mind Office works on there) and I bet they'd snap MS' hand off.

 

As it stands it's RT seems a bit pointless I wonder if consumers will "get" it and not be frustrated why their existing apps won't work; business won't want it as you can't manage the thing on a domain. Result is everyone sits on the fence and waits 3 months for the Pro and will no doubt be disappointed by the price. I still can't see it only being slightly more expensive than the RT as if price isn't an issue there's no need to release a lower spec device to confuse the product range?

 

If what's said in the article is true about Cloverleaf and Intel are having problems with it MS could be waiting a while longer for affordable Win8 Pro devices to appear on the market (ouch)

 

Very strange product launch and decisions from MS at a time when they really needed to get it right first time and hit the ground running.

Edited November 19, 2012 by gshaw

[Jamo]

Good artcle that. You know things are bad when Paul Thurrot's complaining about Microsoft Tech!

 

My take on Windows 8's sales woes is mainly down to the lack of decent tablet hardware being available and MS 'muddying the waters' with the branch out into WindowsRT. Even if I wanted to buy a Windows8 tablet there's literally nothing out there just now I'd be interested in. Most of the current kit is just Windows7 tech with poor quality low-res touch screens bolted on and extortionate price tags.

 

As the article says I think most people are playing the waiting game to see what happens when Intel release Clovertrail/Haswell in the hope we finally get some decent looking hardware. If someone came to me just now and asked which Windows8 device to buy I'd tell them to wait which is likely Microsoft's biggest probelm!

 

I keep saying:

 

Wait until Windows 9....

[Jamo]

That just leaves tables, a market saturated and dominated by Apple and Google.

 

 

And Ikea

[sonofsanta]

The stupid spec & price of the Surface Pro is blatantly an attempt to profiteer from enterprise; there's not a lot stopping them going with an Atom powered x86 tablet (or even a low-end ULV i3) but they know that enterprise has spent three years in a tussle between execs wanting shiny toys and IT departments wanting manageable kit. Everyone will jump at the Surface Pro as it's finally a solution to both sides, and so what if it costs £1,000? Execs want their toys, and IT want their peace.

 

Just us muggins in education sat waiting for an affordable version.

 

I think they've made a mistake betting everything on touch, not because it's only suitable for a subset of form factors, but because it's just a step on the way to gesture. When the Leap comes out, and the software support picks up, it will blow touch away. I can actually imagine using gesture on a desktop as an additional input to swipe, zoom, or manipulate in 3D; but the thought of touchscreen monitors on a desktop makes my shoulders ache just thinking about it.

[tmcd35]

Just spotted this on El Reg...

 

The Sinofsky Letters: Defenestrated Windows overlord corresponds ? The Register

 

Enjoy.

[flyinghaggis]

The stupid spec & price of the Surface Pro is blatantly an attempt to profiteer from enterprise; there's not a lot stopping them going with an Atom powered x86 tablet (or even a low-end ULV i3) but they know that enterprise has spent three years in a tussle between execs wanting shiny toys and IT departments wanting manageable kit. Everyone will jump at the Surface Pro as it's finally a solution to both sides, and so what if it costs £1,000? Execs want their toys, and IT want their peace.

 

This approach didn't make sense to me either but I think Microsoft releasing the Surface pro with such a high price/spec was more of a warning shot across the bows of the other OEMs. Basically Balmer's way of saying "Here's us starting to encroach on the top-end devices. If you guys don't sort yourselves out and bring out decent low/mid range hardware we'll do it ourselves....!"

 

I expect MS will release an atom/i3 ULV based surface in time but I think they wanted to 'incentivise' the other OEMs to get theirs out the door first

[ZeroHour]

This approach didn't make sense to me either but I think Microsoft releasing the Surface pro with such a high price/spec was more of a warning shot across the bows of the other OEMs. Basically Balmer's way of saying "Here's us starting to encroach on the top-end devices. If you guys don't sort yourselves out and bring out decent low/mid range hardware we'll do it ourselves....!"

 

I expect MS will release an atom/i3 ULV based surface in time but I think they wanted to 'incentivise' the other OEMs to get theirs out the door first

 

Tbh I am starting to wonder if MS did it to prove to OEM's if you build it (high end/quality) they will come. Really other then a few select laptops over the years nothing has had a high end feel of Apple stuff, also because not many OEM's other than apple target the high end MS may have priced it to keep the OEM's happy. I suspect there are a few now trying to up their game to match the surfaces build and compete at the high end though.

MS delaying the Pro was probably to primarily allow the RT and app store to flesh out, if the pro was on sale on day one I wonder how many they would have sold versus the RT. I suspect if people thought we can get an albeit more expensive tablet, but it runs all windows software like before a fair few would go the pro route reducing sales/needs of the app store. That could result in less motivation to move devs to the app store which is what MS wants to get WP8 boosted too.

They can go to dev's at christmas we have X devices out there that will ONLY run app store software, there is a market build your apps now and you can port to WP8 too. All the christmas sales too are then RT only and they release the pro in Jan/Feb ready for enterprise to test for the upcoming budget.

Edited November 19, 2012 by ZeroHour

[sonofsanta]

That could result in less motivation to move devs to the app store which is what MS wants to get WP8 boosted too.

They can go to dev's at christmas we have X devices out there that will ONLY run app store software, there is a market build your apps now and you can port to WP8 too. All the christmas sales too are then RT only and they release the pro in Jan/Feb ready for enterprise to test for the upcoming budget.

 

I was going to ask - now that WP8 has shifted to the NT Kernel, are RT & WP8 apps compatible now? That'll help their phone platform no end.

[ZeroHour]

I was going to ask - now that WP8 has shifted to the NT Kernel, are RT & WP8 apps compatible now? That'll help their phone platform no end.

 

Not write once run everywhere but a large amount of RT api is compatible I believe so a lot of code can be reused. You have to build a different/tweaked interface though.

I have just got the WP8 sdk installed so going to look at it all soon and yeh this I think is part of the plan. I heard they wanted it to be even less work to port but ran out of time which is why you have to redo parts of the gui but not base code.

[jinnantonnixx]

A useability analysis of Windows 8.

 

Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice & Power Users (Jakob Nielsen's Alertbox)

Edited November 19, 2012 by jinnantonnixx

[Arthur]

You know things are bad when Paul Thurrott's complaining about Microsoft Tech!

There's a reason Paul is doing lots of Windows 8 bashing...

 

Thurrott wanted internal Windows 8 pre-release builds for help in writing his book. Sinofsky didn't agree, so Thurrott started bashing Windows 8. This got worse when he wasn't given an early Surface review unit. Since then he has tried in every way possible to put Windows 8 and Sinofsky in a bad light. (Source)

[Arcolite]

I've taken the plunge and not only upgraded my home PC to Windows 8 (which I really like!) but I've just ditched my iPhone 4 for a Nokia Lumia 920.

 

After 3 years of iOS I'm finding Windows Phone 8 a very freshing change. It's quick! The app store is still in it's early days, but even so I'm not missing much.