Windows 8....urgh

[CyberNerd]

Windows Intune?

 

which was introduced in July 2011

 

 

Don't be so hasty. Apple's 'market share' is what people would call 'tiny' when it comes to number of devices in use (talking about pcs, tablets etc...).

 

Businesses simply do not want to outsource every aspect of their network into 'the cloud' - it makes no sense to do so for many things.

 

Saying that Apple and Google have started to take over MS's market space is kinda overselling it a bit.

 

 

The marketspace of google/apple is massive in the telephone market compared MS who make their money primarily with MS Office. People want apps at home and there are plenty offering compelling reasons not to use the traditional windows setup. Write documents on a desktop by all means, view them with quickoffice, squeezes MSOffice a bit.

[glennda]

Imagine buying an expensive Android tablet out of your own money, taking it into work and then having it completely locked down and monitored by the IT department (both at work and at home). I don't think many people would be happy with this, so you can see why Microsoft have designed Windows RT in the way they have done.

 

Personally with Ipads I don't see the need to lock them down - all apps which can be installed would be via the Appstore which apple controls what goes into - meaning the likelyhood of dodgy apps in minimal. Android is slightly different in that respect.

 

With regards to the RT version VS windows 8 - I don't see the point, not all companies are going to what to shell out for full device tablets when what they want can be achieved on the ARM device.

[alttab]

You are correct that Windows RT tablets can't join an AD domain, but they can definitely be managed (although not in the same way we are used to with current and previous versions of Windows).

 

In a post published today on the Windows 8 engineering team's blog, Management Systems Program Manager Lead Jeffrey Sullivan described the new capability for Windows RT, which uses a connection to System Center 2012's cloud-based management infrastructure to deliver the applications to the client devices. The agent as Sullivan wrote "does most of the heavy lifting" for client administration, allowing administrators to set which users within the organization are allowed to load applications onto Windows RT devices based on their Active Directory credentials.

 

A new desktop Control Panel applet allows users to connect to the management infrastructure and download the client, authenticating them using their corporate e-mail address and password over a secure connection to the management service. Once connected, the agent configures the device's connection to the corporate network, periodically polls the cloud for updated applications and device setting policies pushed out by administrators, and downloads and installs line-of-business applications that users choose to install. It also gives administrators remote self-destruct on applications: "If the user or the administrator chooses to remove the device from the management infrastructure, it clears the configuration of the agent itself and disables any LOB apps the user installed from the [self-service portal]," Sullivan wrote

 

sounds more mdm than gpo. advantage being that presumably most schools would either already have systems centre or can get it cheaper than other mdm products. I can't imagine M$ pursuing a typical commercial mdm pricing strategy for this.

 

As to the whole question of why microsoft are going down this route, and the apple/google minimal market share argument, a recent survey suggested this

 

Schools ‘appy’ to take up tablet technology - News - Education Executive

 

if your talking about going from 6% of tablet computers to 22% (as an overall percentage of pupil facing devices in schools) within three years, and we're not talking that being driven by the traditional stylus type tablet....that kind of growth is why microsoft have to push this tablet friendly strategy. And they've kind of got to put both feet in the camp of managing the exclusively tablet RT OS the way Apple have done so successfully. And if a large number of these devices are to be pupil provided/owned devices, then you've got to have a model that doesn't see IT taking ownership of the devices, more about IT being there to provision options and facilitate integration, hence the mention of users 'choosing' which LOB apps to install. Whereas the PC model is software being pushed down via GPO, the new model is very much the user pulling down what they need.

Edited June 8, 2012 by alttab

[localzuk]

The marketspace of google/apple is massive in the telephone market compared MS who make their money primarily with MS Office. People want apps at home and there are plenty offering compelling reasons not to use the traditional windows setup. Write documents on a desktop by all means, view them with quickoffice, squeezes MSOffice a bit.

 

Home users are not their primary market - business is. Microsoft made around $5bn profit in the last quarter of 2009, for example and about $2bn from Office.

 

Everything else in their business is tiny in comparison.

[Theblacksheep]

Personally with Ipads I don't see the need to lock them down - all apps which can be installed would be via the Appstore which apple controls what goes into - meaning the likelyhood of dodgy apps in minimal. Android is slightly different in that respect.

 

Is not just the threat, its all the installing of pointless 'apps' that not only fill the devices, but cause distractions in classes or to use as a carrot on a stick by weak teachers when the kids have done real work. They should have what they need for educational needs, not what they want.

 

 

MS have missed out big time on WindowsRT on domains. Many laptops primarily used as word processors and internet research device could have been replaced with low power devices that go all day without having to be recharged. Maybe Windows8sp1 or Windows9 will include this so they can say they've listened.

 

If the integration of management of RT is with SCCM2012 like the exchange connector it'll probably be usable, hopefully they'll be useful settings we can modify, just basic lockdown so they are not open to be ruined by kids.

Edited June 8, 2012 by Theblacksheep

[Gatt]

Just found a new feature in IE10 called "Flip Ahead"

 

It's not on by default as it requires browser history to be sent to MS as they don't have all sites working with it yet.

 

What it does is let you use IE's Forward and Back buttons to move between pages on a site instead of having to fiddle with the little links for each page.

 

Tested with this topic and it appears to work..

 

In Metro its under Settings -> Internet Options -> Flip Ahead

In Desktop its under Internet Options -> Advanced -> Browsing -> Enable flip ahead

[alttab]

Home users are not their primary market - business is. Microsoft made around $5bn profit in the last quarter of 2009, for example and about $2bn from Office.

 

Everything else in their business is tiny in comparison.

 

the thing is though, can they continue to rely on the traditional PC-upgrade cycle to provide those sorts of numbers from business sales as has been the case in the past. Even though business large and small won't abandon Windows and x86 apps anytime soon...and i'm sure the next version of office will do good numbers, it has to be that the cloud, BYOD and tablets are a disruptive element if your traditional model is in the business of making money from x86 hardware and software upgrades.

[localzuk]

the thing is though, can they continue to rely on the traditional PC-upgrade cycle to provide those sorts of numbers from business sales as has been the case in the past. Even though business large and small won't abandon Windows and x86 apps anytime soon...and i'm sure the next version of office will do good numbers, it has to be that the cloud, BYOD and tablets are a disruptive element if your traditional model is in the business of making money from x86 hardware and software upgrades.

 

Indeed, they will get extra from the new markets - but I simply cannot see those new markets replacing existing ones, but instead they will add to them. Office buildings will still be full of desktop and laptop users - that's how work is done. You're not going to find call centres with tablets etc...

 

But you will see roving sales people having tablets to show things off, whilst also having a laptop which they can get on and write their reports etc...

 

BYOD is, as far as I can see, a non-starter. People put it as some panacea to the problem of costs but all I've seen so far is companies who have tried it, and found that due to the extra infrastructure and security required to support them, and the support required to handle so many different platforms, it ends up costing more. The Reg has had a list of them saying the same thing.

 

Cloud is one are which is more disruptive - but Microsoft are doing well in that market. They have their own cloud system, they have a cloud version of Office and their email etc..., they also are able to provide 'private' clouds to those who want them - something that their competitors can't or won't do. So, Microsoft aren't going to be losing out there.

[Pottsey]

Don't be so hasty. Apple's 'market share' is what people would call 'tiny' when it comes to number of devices in use (talking about pcs, tablets etc...).

 

Businesses simply do not want to outsource every aspect of their network into 'the cloud' - it makes no sense to do so for many things.

 

Saying that Apple and Google have started to take over MS's market space is kinda overselling it a bit.

I am not sure it is overselling it a bit. Things are changing tablets and smartphones both individually outsell desktops and most tablets are apple. We are already at a stage where more new devices are Apple over Intel/Microsoft and it looks like not only will the trend continues but it is predicted to increase towards Apple favour. EDITED out last bit as its wrong

 

EDIT2: Looking at the numbers it looks like Intel/Microsoft devices increased in sales by around 3.7% for 2011 while Apple devices increased by around 200% to 300% in the same timeframe. Add in google devices to that and Apple +Google are a major part of the market now.

Edited June 11, 2012 by Pottsey

[localzuk]

I am not sure it is overselling it a bit. Things are changing tablets and smartphones both individually outsell desktops and most tablets are apple. We are already at a stage where more new devices are Apple over Intel/Microsoft and it looks like not only will the trend continues but it is predicted to increase towards Apple favour. EDITED out last bit as its wrong

 

EDIT2: Looking at the numbers it looks like Intel/Microsoft devices increased in sales by around 3.7% for 2011 while Apple devices increased by around 200% to 300% in the same timeframe.

 

You missed my point - just because another market has appeared does not mean that it is stealing MS's market. As you just said, they have seen growth themselves. When a market is tiny, a 300% increase is still small. When a market is huge, a 3.7% increase is also large.

 

Have Apple or Google taken over the OS market for producitivity, or productivity suites, or servers? No on all accounts. Sure, Google Apps has nibbled a few bits here and there but you find me a big business which doesn't use Office on Windows...

[Gatt]

**coughs**

 

 

Just noticed that the Control Panel folders / applets still use drop down menus and not the Ribbon

Possible oversight by MS?

[Pottsey]

You missed my point - just because another market has appeared does not mean that it is stealing MS's market. As you just said, they have seen growth themselves. When a market is tiny, a 300% increase is still small. When a market is huge, a 3.7% increase is also large.

 

Have Apple or Google taken over the OS market for producitivity, or productivity suites, or servers? No on all accounts. Sure, Google Apps has nibbled a few bits here and there but you find me a big business which doesn't use Office on Windows...

Perhaps we should start a new thread for this?

First of all the market is not tiny anymore, are you aware Q4 2011 the tablet market was around the same size as the desktop market in sales? The Smartphones market in Q4 was x5 bigger then desktops. The Desktops market shrank 3.6% only laptops increased in sales.

 

A largeamount of people have moved away from desktops towards smartphones and tablets. I think it is fair to say a lot of MS market has been stolen. I just need to look locally to see places move away from MS. On Sundays I meet with friends and we used to use MS now everything has completely moved to smartphones and tablets.

 

 

“Have Apple or Google taken over the OS market for producitivity, or productivity suites, or servers? No on all accounts. Sure, Google Apps has nibbled a few bits here and there but you find me a big business which doesn't use Office on Windows...”

They might not have overtaken but they took away a noticeable chunk. What used to be pretty much 100% MS is no longer and I see this trend to get worse against MS with Windows 8.

[Quackers]

. What used to be pretty much 100% MS is no longer and I see this trend to get worse against MS with Windows 8.

 

I think it will get much worse for MS, playing with Windows 8 has made me decide i am getting an Apple Mac Air in July. I do not like the direction they are going with Windows and i have been a long term Windows fan. Install Parallels with Windows 7 on the Air for any legacy PC stuff and its Mac for me.

[CyberNerd]

A largeamount of people have moved away from desktops towards smartphones and tablets. I think it is fair to say a lot of MS market has been stolen. I just need to look locally to see places move away from MS. On Sundays I meet with friends and we used to use MS now everything has completely moved to smartphones and tablets.

 

 

you might like these:

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[zag]

I think it will get much worse for MS, playing with Windows 8 has made me decide i am getting an Apple Mac Air in July. I do not like the direction they are going with Windows and i have been a long term Windows fan. Install Parallels with Windows 7 on the Air for any legacy PC stuff and its Mac for me.

 

I was thinking exactly this the other day.

 

For a home PC Apple seems to be a much better contender these days.

 

Windows 8 will be a complete and utter flop, they are going to loose the home desktop market it droves.

[Gatt]

As I've said before, I think this will be the first version of Windows where I won't be upgrading..

I, regrettably, upgraded to Vista and was relieved when Windows 7 came out..

 

I am considering staying on 7 and even creating an XP machine for gaming.

 

I cannot see Win8 taking off - even on a tablet as I feel Apple and Google have already gained a very strong foothold. I also feel that Microsoft came too late to the smartphone party with WP7...

 

If I had the cash then I too would be seriously considering a MacBook too..

 

Ubuntu went the same way with Unity, though I feel Mint may be a good alternative.

[DrCheese]

Don't be so hasty. Apple's 'market share' is what people would call 'tiny'

Apple couldn't give a fig They don't have a huge market share in anything but they make a stupid amount of profit. I saw a chart once showing that they make like 70% of the US profits in the mobile phone market from just a 15/20% market share.

[SYNACK]

I was thinking exactly this the other day.

 

For a home PC Apple seems to be a much better contender these days.

 

Windows 8 will be a complete and utter flop, they are going to loose the home desktop market it droves.

 

I'll retype this less verbosely as I stupidly hit the wireless button which disconnected the network just before posting before:

 

Everyone thought Vista was going to be the downfall of MS but then they 'invented' downgrade rights which gave everyone a lot more flexibility and kept things moving. Sure that was only for the Pro versions but it gave everyone room to manover and the home users got used to it anyway.

 

It is ironic that people are threatening to move to Apple because of it especially as the consumer, felt tip marker crowd that it is designed for that is the target for Windows 8.

[gshaw]

It is ironic that people are threatening to move to Apple because of it especially as the consumer, felt tip marker crowd that it is designed for that is the target for Windows 8.

 

My logic behind that is if you want a restrictive, locked down OS for those with... umm... limited IT skills then you might as well have the popular one that the sheep know and love. Can't see why the iPad crowd would want to flock to Windows when their current device does what they want from it?

 

As for Macs, many people seem to have been sitting on the fence waiting to move for years but the change to a new OS \ UI was the limiting factor, with 8 it's a whole new way of working (and from my testing so far a much poorer one on a desktop) so at that point you don't have much to lose (apart from around £1k in Apple tax!)

 

Time for some celebrity endorsements perhaps... those seem to sell stuff to the consumer crowd

Edited June 11, 2012 by gshaw

[Dantech]

Hi

 

I must disagree here. I think Windows 8 will be a resounding success for the following reasons:

 

1. The Metro Tile Interface will be the same on desktops and Mobile devices

 

2. People will be able to have a mobile device with full office and windows functionality - one such device already exists and will run Windows Release Preview (just come out). The Samsung Series 7 Slate PC. This has a decent i5 processor, 4Gb RAM and a solid state hard drive. Just costs over a grand though!!

 

3. Group policy can be applied to this in the same way as normal so security is spot on - you can't do this with an Apple iPad or an Android tablet. For this reason alone businesses and schools will love this.

 

4. Web browsing is complete - no problems running flash or moving to HTML 5

 

5. Everything will work on it - full office and all windows programs for Windows 8 will run on it - just can't on the cheaper Arm Tablets (they have Office built in but you can't install any programs - read the Windows 8 Magazine available at all good bookstalls!)

 

Mark

[gshaw]

Hi

 

5. Everything will work on it - full office and all windows programs for Windows 8 will run on it - just can't on the cheaper Arm Tablets (they have Office built in but you can't install any programs - read the Windows 8 Magazine available at all good bookstalls!)

 

Mark

 

Can't install anything, not even Metro apps? Surely it can't be that limited?!

[zag]

Certainly interesting times, I think its a good thing to be honest. More competition and new touchpad entrants is always nice. If using windows 8 on a tablet, its actually not too bad.

 

Sadly windows 8 brings very little to the normal desktop user. Having used the RC for a while now, I would even go as far as to say its a downgrade in terms of usability when launching apps with a mouse (although I do like the ribbon bar in explorer and the new file copy logic).

[Dantech]

Hi

 

Sorry - let me qualify that. My understanding from reading the mag is that you can't install windows programs (which are technically still "Apps") onto an Arm Windows 8 tablet. I think apps are fine from the Microsoft Apps store.

 

Mark

[Quackers]

Hi

 

I must disagree here. I think Windows 8 will be a resounding success for the following reasons:

 

1. The Metro Tile Interface will be the same on desktops and Mobile devices

 

 

Is that the same interface that's been so far a complete flop for Nokia? I read that last quarter they made more money from royalties with technology Apple pay them than from the sales of there own phones running WP7.

 

Its this same tiles interface as to why i do not a WP7. Disbite being a hardcore Nokia fan, the tiles are just not for me.

[SYNACK]

My logic behind that is if you want a restrictive, locked down OS for those with... umm... limited IT skills then you might as well have the popular one that the sheep know and love. Can't see why the iPad crowd would want to flock to Windows when their current device does what they want from it?

 

As for Macs, many people seem to have been sitting on the fence waiting to move for years but the change to a new OS \ UI was the limiting factor, with 8 it's a whole new way of working (and from my testing so far a much poorer one on a desktop) so at that point you don't have much to lose (apart from around £1k in Apple tax!)

 

Time for some celebrity endorsements perhaps... those seem to sell stuff to the consumer crowd

 

The grass is always greener till you get there. You are still looking at going backwards in network managment functionality a stackload by going Mac and don't forget the limited support for volume customers outside the US. The forced upgrades to keep all systems the same as there is no downgrades. The comparitivly limited hardware support options in comparison.

 

It is not just about the OS but the whole infrastructure that goes - or more importantly does not go - with it. That grass may look greener to some but I think a lot it it is due to that 'grass'es halucenagenic effects even with its active ingredient gone.