Windows 8....urgh

[localzuk]

Hi

 

I must disagree here. I think Windows 8 will be a resounding success for the following reasons:

 

1. The Metro Tile Interface will be the same on desktops and Mobile devices

 

And this is why people are saying it will be a failure. We don't want the tile interface on our desktops! Its like having a steering wheel on a toaster.

 

2. People will be able to have a mobile device with full office and windows functionality - one such device already exists and will run Windows Release Preview (just come out). The Samsung Series 7 Slate PC. This has a decent i5 processor, 4Gb RAM and a solid state hard drive. Just costs over a grand though!!

 

You know, mobile devices have had such things for decades - they're called laptops. Why would you want full office capabilities on a touchscreen? You're not going to be writing War and Peace on a touchscreen. And £1k for a tablet, you're having a laugh.

 

3. Group policy can be applied to this in the same way as normal so security is spot on - you can't do this with an Apple iPad or an Android tablet. For this reason alone businesses and schools will love this.

 

This is a very true fact, so long as you're not using Windows RT.

 

4. Web browsing is complete - no problems running flash or moving to HTML 5

 

Wrong. Flash will not work for sites that Microsoft hasn't white-listed in its Metro IE. For the normal IE, it will be exactly the same as it is now in Google Chrome (ie. Flash will be built in).

 

5. Everything will work on it - full office and all windows programs for Windows 8 will run on it - just can't on the cheaper Arm Tablets (they have Office built in but you can't install any programs - read the Windows 8 Magazine available at all good bookstalls!)

 

Windows RT will only allow Metro apps to be installed, not the old x86 apps.

 

You've not written anything to convince me that Windows 8 will succeed. Add in all the foibles that have been listed here (poor dual screen support, odd interface design for things like 'shutdown', metro being overly dominating etc, I just cannot see it.

[SYNACK]

And this is why people are saying it will be a failure. We don't want the tile interface on our desktops! Its like having a steering wheel on a toaster.

 

Wicked, I'd buy a toaster like that. My OCD would love a toaster that I could steer, I hate uneven toast

 

Seriously though, if they play it right it will be another 'new coke' of progress. It will be downgradable for those that don't want to move, will introduce the home market to it more thoroughly to the point that when W9 comes out with slightly relaxed or tweaked UI everyone will already be used to it and demanding an upgrade from the dinosaur version of 7 (at that time). It's a pattern that some businesses appear to have started and expect so why should we be suprised that MS has decided to just go with it and use it as a way to push through new tech on the alternate releases so that the more agile consumer market can get used to and possibly dependent on before many businesses will even think of upgrading anyway.

 

This gives the consumers a chance to 'learn' themselves cutting anxeiety and training cost for the companies as well as giving the features three years of shakedown time. Given the ultra cautious and frankly determined hold back culture of some of these places the pattern makes sence and is of their own making. A careful balance between new features/optimisations to keep users happy and stagnation and sameness to keep business curmudgens happy - well, less ittitable than their maximum back in my day setting.

[gshaw]

Wrong. Flash will not work for sites that Microsoft hasn't white-listed in its Metro IE. For the normal IE, it will be exactly the same as it is now in Google Chrome (ie. Flash will be built in).

 

If I'm reading that right IE10 Metro will only use Flash on a site MS have personally approved first, how is that going to work short of the bigger your wallet the better your site will run?

[Gatt]

If I'm reading that right IE10 Metro will only use Flash on a site MS have personally approved first, how is that going to work short of the bigger your wallet the better your site will run?

 

I wouldn't expect "*.apple.com" to be on that list anytime soon

[gshaw]

I wouldn't expect "*.apple.com" to be on that list anytime soon

 

I wouldn't expect apple.com to be using Flash anytime soon or you'll be able to power their head office via a dynamo of Mr Jobs spinning in his grave

[SYNACK]

I wouldn't expect apple.com to be using Flash anytime soon or you'll be able to power their head office via a dynamo of Mr Jobs spinning in his grave

 

They have been trying to go 'green' lately. A little zombie power is probably somewhere in their longterm plan

[Dantech]

And this is why people are saying it will be a failure. We don't want the tile interface on our desktops! Its like having a steering wheel on a toaster.

 

 

 

You know, mobile devices have had such things for decades - they're called laptops. Why would you want full office capabilities on a touchscreen? You're not going to be writing War and Peace on a touchscreen. And £1k for a tablet, you're having a laugh.

 

 

 

This is a very true fact, so long as you're not using Windows RT.

 

 

 

Wrong. Flash will not work for sites that Microsoft hasn't white-listed in its Metro IE. For the normal IE, it will be exactly the same as it is now in Google Chrome (ie. Flash will be built in).

 

 

 

Windows RT will only allow Metro apps to be installed, not the old x86 apps.

 

You've not written anything to convince me that Windows 8 will succeed. Add in all the foibles that have been listed here (poor dual screen support, odd interface design for things like 'shutdown', metro being overly dominating etc, I just cannot see it.

 

 

 

Thanks for your comments. You misuderstood number 5 and have actually agreed with me. Metro apps will install on a Windows 8 RT but not any programs.

 

The is one very good reason not to just use a laptop: - I have never found a laptop yet that will last all day on the battery. Tablets will. Notebooks will but they are not powerful enough. This is why a Slate may be the answer to what I want at least. I want to be able to carry (not lug) a machine around that I can do everything on and not have to carry it on my shoulder around school.

 

Given that the majority of th world use PC's I think Windows 8 will succeed simply because this is the way things are going. Whose to say someone won't make a touch pad "mouse" which sits on the desk where your mouse was. This would make using the new interface quite normal in an office environment. Microsoft may be late with their offering in the tablet arena but they do seem to get it right eventually. If you think £1K for a slate is a lot just try buying an Apple laptop which has a decent spec.

[sonofsanta]

The is one very good reason not to just use a laptop: - I have never found a laptop yet that will last all day on the battery.

 

Pick a netbook, more or less any netbook. The AMD C50 powered ones are great - I have some Aspire One 522s on site. They run about 9 hours of web browsing etc. on a full charge.

 

But netbooks are less shiny/ego-boosting for consumers and have lower profit margins for producers, so no-one really talks about them anymore. Which is a shame, because for a number of educational uses they are perfect.

[localzuk]

Thanks for your comments. You misuderstood number 5 and have actually agreed with me. Metro apps will install on a Windows 8 RT but not any programs.

 

The is one very good reason not to just use a laptop: - I have never found a laptop yet that will last all day on the battery. Tablets will. Notebooks will but they are not powerful enough. This is why a Slate may be the answer to what I want at least. I want to be able to carry (not lug) a machine around that I can do everything on and not have to carry it on my shoulder around school.

 

Given that the majority of th world use PC's I think Windows 8 will succeed simply because this is the way things are going. Whose to say someone won't make a touch pad "mouse" which sits on the desk where your mouse was. This would make using the new interface quite normal in an office environment. Microsoft may be late with their offering in the tablet arena but they do seem to get it right eventually. If you think £1K for a slate is a lot just try buying an Apple laptop which has a decent spec.

 

An i5 tablet most certainly won't last all day, I can almost guarantee that one. The ARM/Windows RT ones might though.

 

Also, why not compare like for like? An Apple tablet is £500 ish. A laptop from Apple with the same spec as any other manufacturer only demands a small premium, but their laptops have significant specs in the first place. A £1k tablet != A £1k laptop.

[ict_support]

My Experience so far using windows 8

 

The amalgamation of the Tablet user Interface is at the sacrifice of the desktop experience. I don’t think Microsoft has quite got it, users like the start menu. I find the Metro UI gets in the way of what I am trying to do on a PC, It is ok on a tablet but not as useable as iOS or Android offerings

[mattx]

I have spent 20 mins trying to work out how to turn it off and at the start another 20 mins trying to find out where the start button was.

I refused to refer to the internet to find out how as to me an OS should be easy and straight forward to use. This isn't. It's horrendous.

[SYNACK]

I have spent 20 mins trying to work out how to turn it off and at the start another 20 mins trying to find out where the start button was.

I refused to refer to the internet to find out how as to me an OS should be easy and straight forward to use. This isn't. It's horrendous.

 

Yea, touch has thrown out the guidelines for UI design, thanks to certain companies and their 'simple' UI you end up with stacks of features that you never usually find. I had to show someone to an iPhone to delete messages from the list rather than going in to each one. You see you slide your finger across the message which then shows a button to delete them. This is completely hidden unless you stumble across it or someone shows you. I only knew as it had be meantioed on here as an example.

 

GUI is dead, the HUI (hidden user interface) appears to the the 'future', all because it is 'simple'. I don't know if I'm missing the point but hiding all the interaction elements seems to be the opposite of simple to me.

 

When I was handing around the tablet I had chucked W8 on I gave the staff a quick UI rundown at then they all found it 'intuitive' as opposed to hidden and obsure. It needed a little Apple style advertising (mini tutorials) but then it worked out.

 

I don't like it but that seems to be the way things are going until the next generation of programmers 'discover' the 'brand new' paradim of interfaces that explain themselves by exposing UI queues.

Edited July 28, 2012 by SYNACK

[SYNACK]

If I'm reading that right IE10 Metro will only use Flash on a site MS have personally approved first, how is that going to work short of the bigger your wallet the better your site will run?

 

http://www.edugeek.net/forums/windows-8/97346-submit-sites-flash-enabled-metro-ie10.html

 

You can just submit them yourself if you want them to work.

[DrCheese]

This thing is an absolute abortion of an OS.

It appears that you can't customise the start screen for network users beyond creating a default user profile.

 

It ignores start menu folder redirection, so if you want to make any changes later, tough.

[Arthur]

It appears that you can't customise the start screen for network users beyond creating a default user profile.

This may help?

 

How to manage Published (a.k.a Metro) Apps in Windows 8 using Group Policy

[DrCheese]

Sorta, That's metro only apps tho.

 

What about the hundreds of "Legacy" apps we all currently have?

 

This is going to be painful. Out of the box my Windows 8 installed logged on using our staff policies showed the metro version of IE only. >.<

[Theblacksheep]

This is going to be painful. Out of the box my Windows 8 installed logged on using our staff policies showed the metro version of IE only. >.<

 

set it to open only in desktop.

[tmcd35]

set it to open only in desktop.

 

I thought they turned that feature off in the latest builds? (Never tried on any build mind).

[Theblacksheep]

I thought they turned that feature off in the latest builds? (Never tried on any build mind).

 

They did not, it made it to the RTM.

[DrCheese]

I think he means setting IE to open in desktop only mode, not booting you straight to desktop (You can't do this, which is just stupid)

 

I'll sit down at some point when I'm bored and play with our policies a bit.

 

But that's *all* it showed out of the box, nothing else, just IE Not that I expected it to just work but still!

[Arthur]

I have never found a laptop yet that will last all day on the battery.

If you don't mind the additional weight, you can make a Lenovo ThinkPad T420 last upto 30 hours.

[Theblacksheep]

I think he means setting IE to open in desktop only mode, not booting you straight to desktop (You can't do this, which is just stupid)

 

You can do that too, scheduled task.

[Arthur]

booting you straight to desktop (you can't do this, which is just stupid)

There are several workarounds, inc. the following...

 

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Winlogon]
"Shell"="explorer.exe /select,explorer.exe"

[synaesthesia]

I've been playing around with it ignoring metro entirely, using the Classic Shell from sourceforge. Just works, performance is reasonable, there's a few nice things which I will play with some more but there's nothing that can't be done in 7 with some tweaks/3rd party apps that I can see. There's certainly no reason to be jumping away from 7 any time soon, certainly.

[Blue_Cookeh]

Anyone got any ideas how we can remotely manage something like Classic Shell, through GPO or otherwise? I have a bunch of machines to image this week and I'm seriously contemplating Windows 8.

 

We're a school that loves throwing the latest and greatest around if possible...